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[quote][i]Originally posted by MojoGM[/i]
[br]Baradtgnome, Djeta, and anyone else from my NH Cormyr game, move along now.  There�s nothing to see here�
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Are they gone?  Good.  Let�s continue, shall we?

I�m working on a murder mystery plot for my Forgotten Realms Cormyr Campaign.  As we all know, murder mysteries can be the hardest adventures to write since you need to take into account all the spells that can be used to shortcut to the answer.  Thus, I ask for your help.

I�m trying to give as much background as I think necessary to explain the situation, so forgive me if some of this is long winded.

THE BACKGROUND

The characters are in Cormyr, in a small town located in the King�s Forest.  The characters are all 6th level.  We have a human paladin of Torm, a half-orc cleric of Torm, a human mage (newly recruited into the War Wizards), a human rogue, an elven fighter, and a gnome sorcerer.

For awhile they traveled with another, a human fighter named Darius Crownsilver (one of the noble families of Cormyr).  Darius was at times a NPC, later played by a friend who sat in for a few games, then a NPC again when that friend stopped playing.  Several months earlier I wrote Darius out by having him summoned back to Suzail (the capital) for a family emergency.  His uncle had taken sick very suddenly and was on the verge of death.

Since then, the PCs have learned that Lord Crownsilver died from this illness that resisted all attempts at curing.  Also, several other prominent nobles have died in the last few months from separate and seemingly accidental causes.

THE SETUP

Darius will have a letter delivered to the PCs asking for their help.  Since the death of his uncle and the other nobles he has been snooping around trying to find out what is going on.  Through some digging, he found the name of a somewhat shady tavern owner in one of the towns in the King�s Forest (not too far from the PCs home base) who may have more information.  He is on his way there and asks the PCs to meet him.

When the PCs arrive at the tavern, however, there is much commotion going on.  Town guards stand at the door and a crowd is gathering outside.  The owner of the tavern was murdered!  And by a noble member of the Crownsilver family!  Yup, the owner is dead, killed in his office by Darius Crownsilver, who was waiting all day for the owner to return from a trip to a nearby town.

HOW IT LOOKS

Darius arrived at the tavern only to find out the owner was out but would be returning that evening.  So, he waited around, drank, flirted with the barmaid, and basically killed time.

A short while later the owner of the tavern arrived.  After a few brief words with the barmaid, he went into his office.  The barmaid told Darius he could go in to see him.  He did, and a few moments later the barmaid entered to bring them drinks and found Darius over the dead body of the owner, his dagger plunged into the man�s heart.

The barmaid screamed, other patrons came in and subdued Darius until the guard arrived and hauled him off to be charged with murder.  He will ask the PCs to help prove his innocence.

DETAILS

Darius claims he didn�t kill the man.  Even though his dagger is missing and it IS his dagger that was found in the dead man (the dagger is distinctive so there is no question it was his).  Darius claims that he came into the office, and not seeing the owner took a seat.  After a few moments he noticed something lying behind the desk so he got up to investigate where he found the owner dead by his dagger.  That is when the barmaid came in and screamed.

The office has no windows and the only doors are to the tavern room and a small washroom (which is where Darius assumed the owner was when he came in, having just returned from a long journey on horse).  A complete search of the room will establish that there are no secret doors of hidden compartments.  For all intents and purposes it looks like Darius is the ONLY person who could have killed him.

The guards will call in a local priest to do a SPEAK WITH DEAD, but it will have no results (the reason to be explained below).

Investigation will reveal the following series of events:

The owner arrives on horseback alone.  Several locals outside see the owner arrive and go into the stable (right near the tavern).  About five minutes later the owner is seen by these same people coming out of the stable and entering the tavern.  He looks a little unsteady, as if he had been drinking (not unusual).  He does not hail the bartender (as he usually does) but rather has a few quiet words with the barmaid and then enters his office.

The barmaid tells Darius that she told the owner that he was waiting to see him, and that he can go ahead inside.

She gets a few drinks at the bar and goes in, where she sees the murder scene and screams!

THE TRUTH

Ok, here it is.  The barmaid, who has only been working there a few weeks, is an assassin hired to kill the tavern owner (who has been talking too much about what is going on) AND frame Darius Crownsilver for it (thus eliminating two problems at once.

Here is how she did it.  She had an accomplice on the road that used magic to let her know when the owner is approaching.  During the time in the tavern, she flirted with Darius in order to take his dagger and then went outside to the stable.

When the owner arrived, she used sneak attack to kill him in one shot.  THEN she used Raise Dead to make him a zombie (whether it is from a scroll, a wand, or whatnot I have not decided).  It is cold so the owner is bundled up anyway, she hands him the dagger with commands to wait a few moments and then go inside.

She returns to the bar, and a few moments later he victim stumbles in.  She then quietly commands him to enter the office, stick the dagger in his chest, and lay down and not move again.

She tells Darius to go ahead inside, gets a few drinks from the bar, and enters to �find� the murder scene.

Ok�any flaws in the plan?  I looked up speak with dead, and it doesn�t work if the person is undead OR the person makes a will save (which they get if the person has a different alignment than the caster).  Since the tavern owner is not the nicest of persons, the cleric would assume that his philosophy opposed his god and the attempt failed.
Please give your input or ask any questions.  Help me make this a good one!

~MojoGM (Chris)

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T O P I C R E V I E W
MojoGM	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 20:08:56 Baradtgnome, Djeta, and anyone else from my NH Cormyr game, move along now. There�s nothing to see here� . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Are they gone? Good. Let�s continue, shall we? I�m working on a murder mystery plot for my Forgotten Realms Cormyr Campaign. As we all know, murder mysteries can be the hardest adventures to write since you need to take into account all the spells that can be used to shortcut to the answer. Thus, I ask for your help. I�m trying to give as much background as I think necessary to explain the situation, so forgive me if some of this is long winded. THE BACKGROUND The characters are in Cormyr, in a small town located in the King�s Forest. The characters are all 6th level. We have a human paladin of Torm, a half-orc cleric of Torm, a human mage (newly recruited into the War Wizards), a human rogue, an elven fighter, and a gnome sorcerer. For awhile they traveled with another, a human fighter named Darius Crownsilver (one of the noble families of Cormyr). Darius was at times a NPC, later played by a friend who sat in for a few games, then a NPC again when that friend stopped playing. Several months earlier I wrote Darius out by having him summoned back to Suzail (the capital) for a family emergency. His uncle had taken sick very suddenly and was on the verge of death. Since then, the PCs have learned that Lord Crownsilver died from this illness that resisted all attempts at curing. Also, several other prominent nobles have died in the last few months from separate and seemingly accidental causes. THE SETUP Darius will have a letter delivered to the PCs asking for their help. Since the death of his uncle and the other nobles he has been snooping around trying to find out what is going on. Through some digging, he found the name of a somewhat shady tavern owner in one of the towns in the King�s Forest (not too far from the PCs home base) who may have more information. He is on his way there and asks the PCs to meet him. When the PCs arrive at the tavern, however, there is much commotion going on. Town guards stand at the door and a crowd is gathering outside. The owner of the tavern was murdered! And by a noble member of the Crownsilver family! Yup, the owner is dead, killed in his office by Darius Crownsilver, who was waiting all day for the owner to return from a trip to a nearby town. HOW IT LOOKS Darius arrived at the tavern only to find out the owner was out but would be returning that evening. So, he waited around, drank, flirted with the barmaid, and basically killed time. A short while later the owner of the tavern arrived. After a few brief words with the barmaid, he went into his office. The barmaid told Darius he could go in to see him. He did, and a few moments later the barmaid entered to bring them drinks and found Darius over the dead body of the owner, his dagger plunged into the man�s heart. The barmaid screamed, other patrons came in and subdued Darius until the guard arrived and hauled him off to be charged with murder. He will ask the PCs to help prove his innocence. DETAILS Darius claims he didn�t kill the man. Even though his dagger is missing and it IS his dagger that was found in the dead man (the dagger is distinctive so there is no question it was his). Darius claims that he came into the office, and not seeing the owner took a seat. After a few moments he noticed something lying behind the desk so he got up to investigate where he found the owner dead by his dagger. That is when the barmaid came in and screamed. The office has no windows and the only doors are to the tavern room and a small washroom (which is where Darius assumed the owner was when he came in, having just returned from a long journey on horse). A complete search of the room will establish that there are no secret doors of hidden compartments. For all intents and purposes it looks like Darius is the ONLY person who could have killed him. The guards will call in a local priest to do a SPEAK WITH DEAD, but it will have no results (the reason to be explained below). Investigation will reveal the following series of events: The owner arrives on horseback alone. Several locals outside see the owner arrive and go into the stable (right near the tavern). About five minutes later the owner is seen by these same people coming out of the stable and entering the tavern. He looks a little unsteady, as if he had been drinking (not unusual). He does not hail the bartender (as he usually does) but rather has a few quiet words with the barmaid and then enters his office. The barmaid tells Darius that she told the owner that he was waiting to see him, and that he can go ahead inside. She gets a few drinks at the bar and goes in, where she sees the murder scene and screams! THE TRUTH Ok, here it is. The barmaid, who has only been working there a few weeks, is an assassin hired to kill the tavern owner (who has been talking too much about what is going on) AND frame Darius Crownsilver for it (thus eliminating two problems at once. Here is how she did it. She had an accomplice on the road that used magic to let her know when the owner is approaching. During the time in the tavern, she flirted with Darius in order to take his dagger and then went outside to the stable. When the owner arrived, she used sneak attack to kill him in one shot. THEN she used Raise Dead to make him a zombie (whether it is from a scroll, a wand, or whatnot I have not decided). It is cold so the owner is bundled up anyway, she hands him the dagger with commands to wait a few moments and then go inside. She returns to the bar, and a few moments later he victim stumbles in. She then quietly commands him to enter the office, stick the dagger in his chest, and lay down and not move again. She tells Darius to go ahead inside, gets a few drinks from the bar, and enters to �find� the murder scene. Ok�any flaws in the plan? I looked up speak with dead, and it doesn�t work if the person is undead OR the person makes a will save (which they get if the person has a different alignment than the caster). Since the tavern owner is not the nicest of persons, the cleric would assume that his philosophy opposed his god and the attempt failed. Please give your input or ask any questions. Help me make this a good one! ~MojoGM (Chris)
15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
DDH_101	Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 00:55:00 Mkhaiwati, I'm not saying Darius has to lie, but that is how the guards or bystanders would think. Also, you must remember that only WE know that Darius isn't the murderer. The PCs aren't exactly 100% sure Darius didn't kill the tavern owner. Some doubt must be placed to make a successful murder mystery plot. Mojo, if you didn't like that "charm idea", how about animated weapons? This could still kind of go along with your plot. I myself don't really like that zombie idea because there's way too many holes in it.
Kentinal	Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 00:28:23 quote: Originally posted by Mkhaiwati Would a detect magic spell still show that the corpse has a spell on it, in this case animate dead? No I do not believe it would detect a magic, any more then an Awaken animal would detect as magic. It however appears that it would detect as evil.
Mkhaiwati	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 23:44:57 quote: quote:Originally posted by DDH_101 Well, sometimes magic does not always work that way. One could assume that Darius is intelligent to answer questions in a way that he could get pass the detection. One could also assume that since he's a noble, he has the power and means to have protection against such spells. Right. I would assume that spells that have a saving throw could not be used to determine guilt or innocence 100%, since the person in question could make their save and resist the spell. correct, but it isn't Darius who needs to avoid the questions... it is the barmaid. Yes, she still gets the will save (I stated that) and yes, she could still answer questions in ways that would be correct. However, if asked "Do you know how the man was killed?" it is hard not to quibble without saying yes or no (Then there is the will save). any wavering or avoiding of the question on her part would mean that the party should know something is going on. Also, since she killed the man and used an animate dead spell, the man is still dead. She killed him. She knows she killed him. She knows how she killed him. It is hard not to say yes or no (providing she makes the will save). Would a detect magic spell still show that the corpse has a spell on it, in this case animate dead? Mkhaiwati
MojoGM	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 17:55:49 quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 Well, sometimes magic does not always work that way. One could assume that Darius is intelligent to answer questions in a way that he could get pass the detection. One could also assume that since he's a noble, he has the power and means to have protection against such spells. Right. I would assume that spells that have a saving throw could not be used to determine guilt or innocence 100%, since the person in question could make their save and resist the spell.
MojoGM	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 17:54:44 quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 Kentinal, I'm merely proving that such charms do exist in the Realms. I'm showing that Mojo can still follow the "rules" if he uses my idea. It is certainly not a bad idea, though I'd like to use the spells as defined by the PHB since that is really the only source my players use and it would seem unfair to create alternate versions of spells for this purpose. Now, if I introduced this version earlier, in a different context, then it would be ok. I appreciate the feedback though!
DDH_101	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 05:43:25 Well, sometimes magic does not always work that way. One could assume that Darius is intelligent to answer questions in a way that he could get pass the detection. One could also assume that since he's a noble, he has the power and means to have protection against such spells.
Mkhaiwati	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 03:24:43 Hello, another small clitch.. "Zone of Truth" is only a second level cleric spell. It could quickly discover that the noble is telling the truth. Asking other suspects might uncover the true assassin (but she still gets a will save). Other people might not believe a party cleric if they knew that the noble is a friend. Others might believe that the party is helping the noble. would a detect magic spell reveal that the corpse is now undead? Well, maybe not undead, but that there is magic surrounding the body, that would be revealed as necromantic magic? I only looked at third level spells and under, since that is all that a party person could cast. A higher level caster could do some damage to your theory, however. But by that time, the true assassin could make her escape and run for the hills without any pursuit. Mkhaiwati
DDH_101	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:44:03 Kentinal, I'm merely proving that such charms do exist in the Realms. I'm showing that Mojo can still follow the "rules" if he uses my idea.
Kentinal	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:24:25 quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 Mojo, that's not necessarily true. Have you read Tantras? In the novel, Cyric uses a special dart that charms a soldier into his command. He made the soldier stick a sword right through his own neck so hard that he was pinned to the wall. I'm sure that you can devise a charm spell that can produce the same effects. One should remember that novels do not always follow the rules of the game. That said there certainly can be ways to use charm and illusision to achieve a simalar effect. Green slime needs to be burned off (or used to be, bloody rules keep changing) it certainly would be posible by using illussion to have person stab attacker in back and even believe that the blade will not reach them. Something like killing a strige attached to chest would have an adventurer stab at chest with a dagger.
DDH_101	Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:03:57 quote: Originally posted by MojoGM quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 EDIT: How about putting the owner under a charm spell? Then instead of the barmaid killing him, you just have her command the man to stab himself in the chest with the dagger. You can still use that plot with this idea. I don't think Charm would make someone hurt themself...that would break the spell as I recall. Mojo, that's not necessarily true. Have you read Tantras? In the novel, Cyric uses a special dart that charms a soldier into his command. He made the soldier stick a sword right through his own neck so hard that he was pinned to the wall. I'm sure that you can devise a charm spell that can produce the same effects.
Kentinal	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 22:12:48 Hmm, if Cleric tries to speak with dead, might detect undead state. Not sure about this though. Another problem I see is the framed man entering office when told owner was there by waitress and not seeing him, he might leave as soon as he did not see him. To ask where he is. Of course might search office more quickly then waitess could return after serving some drinks and remove dagger. These are the two more likely actions that a person would take in stead of waiting for a while, after being told the person was ready to meet them. I am referring to this "Darius claims that he came into the office, and not seeing the owner took a seat." It also does not work well with after sitting a round or two finally sees a body. Or how many rounds you envision passing. Stabing undead might have less blood flow as well, escially if the undead is still undead and ordered to appear dead.
webmanus	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:31:58 Disguise Undead, page 87, D&D 3.0 accessory Tome and Blood, A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers. Disguise Undead Illusion (Glamer) Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Target: One cirporeal undead Duration 10 min/level. As change self. You determine the appearance of the undead. I assume that zombies that "stinks", are those that have been decay enough time ... Still, if Disguise Undead is part of your plot ... you should not need to worry about the "smell" ...
MojoGM	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:21:26 quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 EDIT: How about putting the owner under a charm spell? Then instead of the barmaid killing him, you just have her command the man to stab himself in the chest with the dagger. You can still use that plot with this idea. I don't think Charm would make someone hurt themself...that would break the spell as I recall.
MojoGM	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:20:02 quote: Originally posted by DDH_101 Mojo, but wouldn't the fact that the owner was turned into a zombie be really obvious? I mean, the smell, rotting skin, etc. If the corpse is a zombie then Darius can be easily proven to be innocent since the owner could've been killed a long time ago. I was under the assumption that if a body were raised immediately, there would be no time for the body to decay, since the corpse itself is still fresh. And once it DID start to decay, it would seem natural. It is a good question though. Does the spell automatically make a corpse appear all decayed, or is the monster description assume a certain amount of time has passed. Plus, I was pondering the use of a spell that makes dead undetectable (whatver it is called)
DDH_101	Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:08:25 Mojo, but wouldn't the fact that the owner was turned into a zombie be really obvious? I mean, the smell, rotting skin, etc. If the corpse is a zombie then Darius can be easily proven to be innocent since the owner could've been killed a long time ago. EDIT: How about putting the owner under a charm spell? Then instead of the barmaid killing him, you just have her command the man to stab himself in the chest with the dagger. You can still use that plot with this idea.

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