| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:18:52
I have to run a little campaign because my main one is paused for a couple of weeks (two players are now the parents of twin boys).
With the three other players, I want to run a good campaign in the north, in the year of the rogue dragons. I got the idea to make them hunt Nurvureem (Female unique adult shadow/song dragon).
If she's the "BBEG", at which level should I create the caracters ? (I'm not a WOTC board powergamers, nor my players).
Any ideas/suggestions about using the Dark Lady is welcome of course!
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| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 02:26:29
Hi again,
I've finally decided to introduce this campaign by using the "Grimmantle Keep" adventure site in LEoF. During first session, they started from Neverwinter, went in Neverwinter woods (with a stop in a Harper's refuge) and up to Xantharl's keep.
Now I'm looking for a NPC of Waterdeep who could be the current holder of the "gift sword" of the Dark Lady. I'm thinking about a young noble.. but I'm not really sure. I think he should be evil, but not a totally corrupted one..
Thanks for suggestions. |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:53:21
I'll go for characters of level 12 and I'll add some lackeys. (And/Or more sorceress levels). |
| Arivia |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:31:42
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'd say 9th or 10th then, but I don't want your PCs deaths on my hands. Considering they will know who they are about to face and what they are getting into, they can tailor themselves a bit more toward what they are going up against.
Nope, that's too underpowered. Go for 13th, then make an EL 15 mixed pair encounter using her and a lackey(CR 12). Alternatively, break that CR 12 lackey down into another mixed group---say, 4 CR 5 creatures and one CR 11 creature(in addition to Nurvureem). On the upside, this gives you many more tactical possbilities---that is, it won't just be all of them going after Nurvureem, which will probably be a very short and possibly quite easy encounter, especially if the PCs are prepared for it. On the other hand, this will be a very tough encounter for the players; a party at less than half of their resources would have a lot of trouble. |
| Sarta |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:14:47
As is true of many dragon encounters, it really will depend on the situation.
One or two uses of her breath weapon could make the encounter impossible for a group of 11th level characters. Energy drain can make a hard encounter go south very quickly.
As presented, if she gets the drop on the players, they don't have a chance unless they are much higher in level. Her information gathering abilities (including the sword) if brought to bear, could really unbalance the playing field. As can allowing her to choose the battlefield.
At the same time, if the players can get enough information on her and get the drop on her, they could level the playing field considerably. Hitting her very hard while in drow form in conjunction with using a daylight spell could make things go much easier. Again, these conditions will only be possible if the players are able to get enough information and then use it wisely.
I'd aim at characters level 11-12 personally. They could hypothetically pull it off even if they take one of her breath attacks.
Sarta |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:12:19
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
If the PC’s end up with the Blazhserblane sword mentioned in the article, then I’d actually bump them up a level, because it’s expected that the dragon will know all of their plans and location before hand.
The story will probably start with the PCs hunthing a men who received it recently...
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| Jindael |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 20:09:02
A CR 14 dragon? I think KEJ is right on the mark with 10th level characters. That’s a tough fight, and there is a good chance that at least one PC won’t make it out of there alive. In fact, 11th level might be better, especially if there are encounters preceding the dragon fight.
If the PC’s end up with the Blazhserblane sword mentioned in the article, then I’d actually bump them up a level, because it’s expected that the dragon will know all of their plans and location before hand.
Bear in mind that a CR 14 encounter (which the dragon is) should remove one quarter of the parties resources, and that party is modeled off a group of four PC’s of that level (14) and each covering one niche of the group (Fighter, wizard, thief, cleric). Since the dragon is already CR 14, 11 sounds like a perfect level to me for a tough fight, with a few preceding encounters, and the option of henchmen just in case it gets to easy.
However, what will make the battles very easy for the characters is if they use their starting gold to purchase a lot of consumables, which are very cheap in comparison to the more static items, and in a short adventure arc, it’s really easy to get by on a haversack full of potions, wands and scrolls. Of course it’s metagaming, but everyone does that to a small degree.
The dragon’s frightful presence ability has a will save of 25. Your average, single class poor will save character (fighter, thief, etc) without a wisdom bonus or the Iron Will feat, has a +3 to their will save. Even with an 18 wisdom and Iron Will, that’s a +9. They still need to roll a 16 or better to avoid that nasty -2 to attacks, skill checks and saving throws. Combine that with the level draining breath weapon (three levels, ouch!,) and you could end up with a seriously weakened party, as far as your physical damage dealers. Granted, the fighter can still, at least, stand in the front and suck up damage while the wizards blasts away, but with a creature as big as a dragon, one little dude isn’t much of a blockage.
These are, of course, the normal dangers that a group faces when fighting a dragon, but in this case, the long lasting (as far as a battle goes) effects the dragon can inflict on the party dovetail into a very destructive combo.
Then again, a 32 point buy will be a good amount of points. And if the players can get some info about what they are going to face (that the dragon is in fact a dragon and what she can do, and not just a drow) there is a good chance that 11th level PC’s will be able to have a good go of it. (again, assuming they don’t have that magic sword, otherwise it kind of negates any planning the players do.)
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| Skeptic |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:25:02
They won't be able to craft characters aimed directly at killing a dragon, because they won't know before we start that it will be the goal of this short campaign. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:21:21
Of course, I will qualify this by pointing out that our resident number cruncher is Arivia, and she has a REALLY good handle on disecting these sorts of things. If I ended up making the PCs too underpowered for the final encounter, I would probably make sure that the dragon ravaged them, but left them alive to taunt them, letting them see the havoc that she has wroght due to their failure. If I made the PCs too powerful, you can always throw in some henchmen or bound servior creatures for her to use as a shield.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:18:40
I'd say 9th or 10th then, but I don't want your PCs deaths on my hands. Considering they will know who they are about to face and what they are getting into, they can tailor themselves a bit more toward what they are going up against. |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:15:23
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
First off, how may players do you have in this particular campaign?
3 players and I'll put an extra NPC in there (probably a cleric).
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Second, how are they going to end up seaching for her? Is the campaign going to start right off the bat, hey, lets go get Nurvereem, or is it going to be, the PCs find out about X, then find out that she has something to do with it. Depending on how many adventures, and how many levels, you plan on having them go through before they find her, this would definately change.
I don't plan to have them level up before fighting them. Something like : PCs are Harpers agent, the group already know that she exists, and this time she went too far... because of the rage?
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Also, how do you plan on having your players make their characters? I have noticed that dispite my original thoughts, a 32 point buy, while not game breaking, does allow PCs to almost ignore somethings that should slow them down more, like poisons and traps..
32 point buy yeah.. they would like 36 
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:32:50
First off, how may players do you have in this particular campaign?
Second, how are they going to end up seaching for her? Is the campaign going to start right off the bat, hey, lets go get Nurvereem, or is it going to be, the PCs find out about X, then find out that she has something to do with it. Depending on how many adventures, and how many levels, you plan on having them go through before they find her, this would definately change.
Also, how do you plan on having your players make their characters? I have noticed that dispite my original thoughts, a 32 point buy, while not game breaking, does allow PCs to almost ignore somethings that should slow them down more, like poisons and traps.
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