| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 00:13:26
How long would it take to get from Selgaunt to Heliogabalus by ship.....a ship owned by the Uskevren family?? |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sian |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 05:36:05
hmm ... following my tables about a Caravel, from 2e 'The Savage Frontier' then those's Normal speeds should be 5 mph with using a sail ... which would mean that they would stright from Selguant to the mouth of the Great Imphras River would only take slightly more than 6 days ... and by oars the normal speed is only 1 mph, and by only saying that they would sail 16 hours a day when rowing upriver, then they would take another 25 days ... if they row 24 hours per day with lantrens and 3 8 hour shifts they would use slighty more than 16 and a half day rowing ... that'll mean that they on a more or less nonstop route would use between 23 to 31 days (and that nombers is assuming moderate favorable winds, with relatively calm waters)
but if they change to a Long ship (Knarr) from the river, they only need to use slightly more than 3 and a half day rowing upriver .... making the whole travel time only taking slightly less than 10 days (not counting reshipping at the river mouth, any kind of freak weathers or random enemíes (monsters or pirates) |
| Halidan |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 01:17:30
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
how long would it take to travel form A-B (with ship)
Selgaunt to Yhaunn is roughly 240 miles.
Selgaunt to Scardale is roughly 300 miles.
Selgaunt to Saerloon is roughly 190 miles.
Selgaunt to Urmlaspyr is roughly 285 miles.
Selgaunt to Westgate is roughly 310 miles.
Selgaunt to Starmantle is roughly 235 miles.
Selgaunt to Suzail is roughly 520 miles.
The travel times for ships depends a lot on the type of ship that you're using. Given that all of these routes are primarily coastal routes, you could be using various versions of sail-powered ships (probably a caravel, coaster or cog) and/or a rowed vessel like a knarr (cargo version of the Moonsea longship).
The most common Sembian coastal sail-powered ship would be caravel, but all of the above mentioned vessels are common enough on the Sea of Fallen Stars that you could find any of them in a major port like Selgaunt.
As for travel times, the vehicle speed estimates that I gave Alisttair should work for rough guidelines.
I would add that for a couple of these routes, land transportation will be quicker except for very heavy/bulky goods. Selgaunt to Yhaunn is only 120 miles by land, and Selgaunt to Saerloon is only 100. And there are good roads the entire route for both trips. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 23:24:32
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Ahh i know but how do common pepol communicate city to city ?
In my fantasy Forgotten realms = They youse pigeons, rich pepol youse magic.
Bards and minstrels since there really isn't any modern type of communication from city to city in FR. As well as sending letters via caravans and the like.
Indeed. The lack of a true and dedicated Faerun-wide communication network makes communication between cities, and regions for that matter, difficult... though not impossible.
Bards can ferry messages, just like news, between their various stopover points, from various points of interest.
We shouldn't forget merchants and adventurers either. While not always as "reliable" as a news/message-carrying bard, merchants and adventurers from foreign lands are often easily able to access different cities and places around the Realms, making the transportation of messages and news fairly easy along well-travelled trading routes. Visiting more remote regions however, that don't often attract a lot of trade, may mean paying a few extra gold pieces to make it worth the merchant's effort to carry the message to the desired remote destination.
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| LucianBarasu |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 21:44:55
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Bards and minstrels since there really isn't any modern type of communication from city to city in FR. As well as sending letters via caravans and the like.
Kuje is right.
Take the populace of a normal medieval town. Now Seperate all but those aforementioned "common" people. Now take out those who CAN'T write or read..
Of those people left, IF they had someone in a neighboring town to communicate with would put the letter on a caravan. Giving instructions in their previous letter around the month, or season this next letter would arrive.
Now, The caravaner takes said letters for a nominal fee, and delivers them into town. When a wagon or caravan arrives into town, after being inspected (if necessary) he will then go to the "unloading area" of the town. (unless it is a one business caravan which for example if the caravan is only holding ale for a specific tavern, it goes right to the tavern.) In the unloading area, anyone who is expecting something stand around and waits for the caravaner or one of his hired hands to start shouting people's names. When the caravan finishes its unloading , anything NOT picked up usually gets dumped into the hands of some dock hand or catalouger.(if available). If not it falls into the hands of the city officials, and when country boy Bob runs into town to get his letter from Uncle bosephus, if he missed the caravan, he must track the letter down.(could take hours)
Most people in towns who have to work sun up to sun down, don't bother writing to anyone they can't walk over to and say "hey!"
Messages would depend on time of caravan arrivals, Time it takes to make the trek slowly with a team of oxen or horses, PLUS monster attacks, PLUS bandits stealing letters , PLUS weather.. You're looking at months...
Anyone who is educated enough, and has the means to learn to write, and read, and buy books and parchments, they'll pay a lone rider to deliver the message personally.
Now we're in the magical land of the Forgotten Realms. Simple anser.. Farmer bob goes into the woods and asks the local druid to whisk his message for him to the next town. OR the magical homing pigeons from town X are bought (and brought to him in the next caravan btw) to deliver messages larger than a few sentences.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 21:38:16
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
To answer your question, most homming pigeons average a flying speed (over short to moderate distances) of just less than 30 miles per hour. The longer the trip, the slower the speed. As for how far a bird can fly, the current racing pigeon record is around 1689 miles.
Ah, but what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 21:06:14
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Ahh i know but how do common pepol communicate city to city ?
In my fantasy Forgotten realms = They youse pigeons, rich pepol youse magic.
Bards and minstrels since there really isn't any modern type of communication from city to city in FR. As well as sending letters via caravans and the like. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 20:51:48
Ahh i know but how do common pepol communicate city to city ?
In my fantasy Forgotten realms = They youse pigeons, rich pepol youse magic. |
| LucianBarasu |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 20:45:01
Victor, use a Druid,have them telport through trees... |
| Halidan |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 20:40:58
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
I was thinking.... what about Letter pigions, how long time would it take for them to deliver a letter. yousing the same distant as shown above
To answer your question, most homming pigeons average a flying speed (over short to moderate distances) of just less than 30 miles per hour. The longer the trip, the slower the speed. As for how far a bird can fly, the current racing pigeon record is around 1689 miles.
The problem with homing pigeons is that they can realisticaly have only a single home base. They can fly to that home base from almost any starting point - but they are only going to fly back to a single roost. And, to complicate matters further, the more starting locations you use an individual bird from, the longer it will take them to fly home on any given route - even one they've done many times before.
So, for example, you could have a pigeon that's trainned to fly to a roost in Yhaunn. Now that pigeon could be released from Selgaunt, Scardale or Saerloon and it will eventualy make it home (provided it's not killed and eaten). But if the bird flys just the Selgaunt to Yaughnn run, it will become faster and more reliable.
And it's very risky to send a message with only a single bird. The US Army used pigeons up through WW2. They would regularly send four copies of the same message to ensure that one message got through. Not only do birds get killed and lost, but the leg containers come off or fall open with distressing regularity.
As well, most mundane pigeons couldn't carry a full letter. The capsules that attach to the birds legs are rather small - the paper they contain would normaly hold only a few sentances at best.
All in all, pigeons aren't the most reliable or accurate way to communicate - especially in a magical world like the Realms
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| Alisttair |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 16:20:42
Thanks for all the info. I think maybe making the ship magical in that it can sail in shallower water....i'm guessing the Uskevren family can afford it :P it'll make life easier too :) |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 15:48:01
Thanks Halidan i thought you didnt want to do it. 
I was thinking.... what about Letter pigions, how long time would it take for them to deliver a letter. yousing the same distant as shown above  |
| Halidan |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 15:12:12
Victor - I wasn't on line all weekend and just saw you post this mroning while I was at work. I'll check my atlas when I get home this evening and have a answer for you later tonight. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 16 Dec 2006 : 10:50:57
I just thougt of somthing, my rouge in my campain are making a little business of his own.
Plz. Halidan tell me how long would it take to travel form A-B (with ship)
Selgaunt – Yhaunn
Selgaunt – Scardale
Selgaunt – Saerloon
Selgaunt – Urmlaspyr
Selgaunt – Westgate
Selgaunt – Starmantle
Selgaunt – Suzail
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| Alisttair |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 02:53:33
Thanks. Didn't think i'd get such a thourough answer. Glad to have it. Thanks! |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 20:27:22
Hmm I found this link: http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/8/dobson.html
That offers a different view of speeds. It should be noted it appears major consideration is given to the long ship, which was built for speed.
A quote from the site.
quote:
§22. In order to address these questions it is necessary to conduct a comparison of the time-space disparity—a rather long winded term intended to denote time traveled in comparison to distance covered—that exists between the three basic modes of travel. The following considerations have been included in the calculations for travel times and distances. First, where land routes are calculated the shortest route along known Roman roads and medieval trackways has been used. To calculate overland travel times, the pace of 15 miles per day is used. This rate represents a compromise between walking or riding along good roads and trackways, and along poorly maintained or defined seasonal routes. Second, in the calculations for travel via inland waterways, only those river systems that are known to have been navigable in the early medieval period, essentially the Thames, Humber, Ouse, Tees, and Wear, are used. Lastly, the rate of travel for sailing was taken as 81 miles per day and that for rowing has been calculated at a rate of 41 miles per day.3 The figures for overland, oar, and sail rates cited above are conservative to a degree. Indeed, the data generated from their half-scale model of the Sutton Hoo ship, Gifford and Gifford (1996, 152) suggests that a voyage from York to Canterbury in the full-sized ship, a journey of c. 300 miles, would have taken only two days.
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| Halidan |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 20:02:22
Happy to be of service folks. As for Alaundo's very generous offer of employment here at Candlekeep, just point me to any dusty old map room and I'll make myself at home in an instant.
I used to do aerial photography for a commercial cartography firm back in the early 80's (before everyone and thier brother had acess to cheap, accurate satellite images). Maps and geography have been an interest of mine ever since.
As for Kentinal's concerns about not factoring in the speed of the current on the Imphras, I seriously thought about taking that it into consideration, but the lack of canon information on the river (depth, width, flow rates, level of traffic, conditions of the banks, etc) caused me to go with the base speed for a rowed vessel. I suspect it's close enough for most DM's uses. As always, YMMV. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 19:03:57
There can be oter factors that might come into play. Rowing upstream one should subtract the current flow down stream. The SRD clearly indicates it is not posible to row upstream against a "significant current". It also offers a typically currrent of 3 miles per hour. I do not know the current of the Great Imphras River but if it a typical no one is rowwing up it. Instead one would need to be towed up the river. Using heavey hotse (under load) 4 miles an hour appears posible if you have enough of them. Some sectins of the river might have enough lighting to permit 24 hour towing, most likely towns and cites or lower river because more goods would be going upstream at the mouth then would be taken all the way up to the source. Other then lighted pasage it would likely be day light towing at best perhaps 15 hours (infering most traffice would be Spring though Fall, but even that might not be obtainable percause of switching teams of draft animals.
As for crossing the Sea of Fallen Stars clearly is based on wind speed and direction, I am not convinced that speed would only be 2 miles per hour as an average, but a lot of that depends on what sailing tech is used in the realms. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 18:38:59
Somtimes i dont know what to say... wauu Halidan
Great Work
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| Alaundo |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 18:14:16
quote:
Originally posted by LucianBarasu
wow....
*drops pen, pencil and drawin board with artwork on it...and drops jaw*
wow.. I thought I had skills..hey, you got atlas in your blood. You can be my Drover and Mapper anyday.
Indeed, a splendid answer, Halidan. Many thanks. I think ye have found thy employment here in Candlekeep  |
| LucianBarasu |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 09:37:52
wow....
*drops pen, pencil and drawin board with artwork on it...and drops jaw*
wow.. I thought I had skills..hey, you got atlas in your blood. You can be my Drover and Mapper anyday. |
| Besshalar |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 09:35:38
 Yes I'm always impressed with proper calculations of travel times usually in our sessions everyone comes up with a different time. And then we just sort of pick one. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 09:01:48
I doubt that anyone could have given a better, more complete answer. Amazing Halidan! I am speachless............. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 03:37:20
My trusty Forgotten Realms Atlas tells me that it's roughly 750 miles from Selgaunt to the mouth of the Great Imphras River. From there, it's another 380-400 miles upriver to Heliogablus.
I'm doubtful that a ship large and sturdy enough to travel across the Sea of Fallen Stars would do well with the 400 mile trip up the Imphras. You'd probably have to change vessels in Hlammach, Dilpur or another of the nearby coastal towns for the trip up river.
Assuming an average speed of 2 mph, full crew and reasonable weather, a taught merchant vessel will take at least 15-16 days to make a direct (non-stop)crossing of the SoFS. With stops in other ports and some loss of speed due to weather, I'd suspect the trip to the mouth of the Imphras would take 25-30 days.
Assuming the upriver trip is made by a rowed vessel (as opposed to a sail powered ship), you can figure on a speed of 3 mph. However, your rowers can't work 24/7 like sails can. Figure the ship will manage to travel 30-36 miles per day, so the river trip will take 10-12 days (again, not counting stops along the way).
My best guess on total travel time would be somewhere between 25 days for a non-stop trip and up to 42+ for a typical merchantmans route. |
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