| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jordanz |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 03:39:36
Are there any notable quasi-deities or hero deities that actually reside on Toril? I'm talking about Divine rank "0" types. Would the Chosen- pre Spellplauge have qualified? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Light |
Posted - 19 Dec 2011 : 09:41:30
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
The 20 divine ranks were parallel to the 20 possible character class levels that PC's could have. A god who had greater than 20 ranks graduated to overgod status, which was comparable to epic ranks compared to PC levels.
I've never thought of it like this...but I think this is very insightful. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 19 Dec 2011 : 07:00:23
I feel certain that Exarch means at least a DVR of 1. Not sure how the divine ranks are split up in 4e. Under the 3e system, a Demi-god, which is what an Exarch is, had a DVR between 1-5 (out of 20). The 20 divine ranks were parallel to the 20 possible character class levels that PC's could have. A god who had greater than 20 ranks graduated to overgod status, which was comparable to epic ranks compared to PC levels.
While divine ranks are no longer statted as part of 4e mechanics, it's possible there are still only 20 divine ranks. But since they only list 3 tiers now, it could be that 4e divine ranks are parallel to the 4e PC class levels with Exarch corresponding to the heroic tier (DVR 1-10), Gods corresponding to the paragon tier (DVR 11-20) and Greater Gods corresponding to the Epic tier (21-30). Overgods, then, would be what happens when a Greater God progresses to the beyond after his "epic" story ends.
I don't think that DVR zero is included in Exarch status. One can serve a god without being an Exarch. Having DVR zero may be the first step before becoming an Exarch. DVR zero, then, is probably more properly the rank of mortals that are touched by the divine, either as chosen, or the children of gods, or those who have achieved sainthood, celestial servitors (such as Valkyries and Einherjar) or who possess some other powerful, yet not fully divine status. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 22:55:38
From the FR Campaign Guide:
quote:
Exarchs are often referred to as demigods
Both means the same, one may use the one term and some one else the other |
| Light |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 08:26:50
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I think Exarch basically means, "God you can kill."
Maybe in gaming terms but from a lore view I don't think that's what it means. Or is Exarch even actually used in the realms? I mean does Elminster say "Yep, he's an Exarch now" or would he instead say "Yep, he's a Demigod now" leaving Exarch as a gaming mechanic that is only ever used, seen or heard of by players? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 02:00:30
I think Exarch basically means, "God you can kill."
|
| Light |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 01:40:35
quote:
Originally posted by Cronje
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Cale, Riven, Rivalen, I thought all three were low end DemiGods....but them maybe you are right , don't think anyone worships Riven or Rivalen.
I would nominate King Obould but he obviously was not immortal or even long lived.
Obould has been made an exarch, according to the Campaign Guide. The same is true of Fzoul Chembryl. I would assume an exarch has some sort of divinity in him.
I thought an exarch is a demigod who is subservient to another god (lesser, intermediate or greater). |
| Cronje |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 00:19:00
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Cale, Riven, Rivalen, I thought all three were low end DemiGods....but them maybe you are right , don't think anyone worships Riven or Rivalen.
I would nominate King Obould but he obviously was not immortal or even long lived.
Obould has been made an exarch, according to the Campaign Guide. The same is true of Fzoul Chembryl. I would assume an exarch has some sort of divinity in him. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 03:51:33
I'm guessing their divine essence "resides" in their bodies only temporarily, and is most likely part of Mask's contingency plan. I think after Shar subsumed Mask, in time, and by the aid of someone (Vasen most likely) and some powerful relic (stolen from Shar's church, likely), those divided essence would "awaken," merge, and form the new God of Thieves. All speculations, of course; while waiting for Godborn. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 03:31:42
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Cale, Riven and Rivalen, after absorbing Mask's essence. And possibly The Ice Queen, Iyraclea, too. She was favored by Auril a little bit too much---down towards the end of her battle with Zethrindor.
Cale, Riven, Rivalen, I thought all three were low end DemiGods....but them maybe you are right , don't think anyone worships Riven or Rivalen.
I would nominate King Obould but he obviously was not immortal or even long lived. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 03:28:34
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Cale, Riven and Rivalen, after absorbing Mask's essence. And possibly The Ice Queen, Iyraclea, too. She was favored by Auril a little bit too much---down towards the end of her battle with Zethrindor.
|
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 22:04:39
I'm wondering if Drizzt might qualify, seeing how Meilikki has favored him enough to create an entire pocket reality for his lost companions- with the assumption that he may eventually rejoin them there. That smacks of some heavy Chosen-ism there..... Might he be on the way to a divine rank 0? Hmmm.... Just a thought. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 10:02:09
That could be a Dark Justiciar or a Nightbringer.
And oh! I forgot to mention Volumvax, aka Keson Rel, and the shadow dragon Furlinastis, who both shared Mask's divinity.
It's also possible that Vasen is a quasi-deity, being the son of Cale and favored by Mask. |
| Marc |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 09:50:10
There is one servant of Shar with Divine Rank 0, but I forgot his name. They also worship a sword in Thentia. I'm not sure about Shiallia, Lurue, Varae, Bright Nydra, Grond Peaksmasher, or the Beast Cults, or Ilmater's saints. In Evermeet there are a few hero gods. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 07:51:55
Cale, Riven and Rivalen, after absorbing Mask's essence. And possibly The Ice Queen, Iyraclea, too. She was favored by Auril a little bit too much---down towards the end of her battle with Zethrindor. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 07:20:26
I would agree that any of the many chosen or seraphs probably have a DVR 0. I think that the act of conferring seraph (chosen) status upon someone involves the deity investing some measure of a "divine spark" in that person which is best explained, mechanics-wise, as granting a DVR zero as part of that chosen package. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 06:44:29
Haha, your logic is sound jordanz - and mirrored in the pagan pantheons of our own world. The mythology of classical Greece is the finest example; they named packs of deities to govern every minute aspect of every object, place, or idea they could imagine. Then they assumed these deities all fornicated relentlessly to birth all manner of "demigod" monstrosities, but that's another matter entirely.
It already seems like the Realms are stifled with gods and godlings, so many that ye can barely swing a sword without clattering into somebody's god, ye can barely turn over a fieldstone without interrupting somebody's supernaturally divine entity.
Perhaps there are not so many godlings in the Realms because the more powerful ones are so aggressively competitive, jealous, and predatory? Or perhaps there are countless little godlings with local domains and limited powers, so many - and all moving about, constantly emerging and disappearing - that it is impossible for even Edminster to know of or describe them all? Perhaps even both possibilities hold truth, but we are largely unaware of the majority of these little godlings because those who have any sense at all manage to survive through anonymity, the last thing they want to do is attract the attentions of more powerful entities. The ones who lack sense - we call them "heroes" - tend to die in rather untimely and interesting ways. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 06:25:06
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Ye olde wiki site has compiled a decent list of Forgotten Realms deities. Not a lot more needs to be said - although I note the conspicuous lack of Karsus, and I might also include possibilities like Larloch and Vhostrym; they may not have (or even be capable of maintaining) any worshippers, yet they are known/suspected to possess tiny portions of divine energy, enough to qualify as Divine Rank 0 quasi/hero deities in my mind.
It also looks like immortality is a pre requisite. Not sure if Larloch and the crew fit that bill.
Wiki lists: "Tchazzar: Dragon-god of battle, Chessenta, strength, victory[26][27]"
And that's about it. I would think that Divine rank 0 beings should be the most common type of divine beings running around, with numbers dwindling as they ascend in power. In other words for every greater God I would expect 5 Demigods.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 05:39:14
Ye olde wiki site has compiled a decent list of Forgotten Realms deities. Not a lot more needs to be said - although I note the conspicuous lack of Karsus, and I might also include possibilities like Larloch and Vhostrym; they may not have (or even be capable of maintaining) any worshippers, yet they are known/suspected to possess tiny portions of divine energy, enough to qualify as Divine Rank 0 quasi/hero deities in my mind.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 04:15:59
I'd imagine that Pil'it'ith [former Chosen of Merrshaulk/Sseth, as of Serpent Kingdoms] would probably come close [though, not in terms of a hero, as such].
Iakhovas is another possibtility. Both Cloak & Dagger and the 3e Waterdeep sourcebook state that Iakhovas was a wereshark. He was also called a wereshark in the trilogy itself, as I recall. Regardless, I would say that he may have actually been a particularly powerful variant of the wereshark race. He was said to have been a former lover of Umberlee -- so it's entirely possible he had some "divine assistance" at some point in his life.
Tom Costa once offered some thoughts of his own on how to represent Iakhavos's "special" status through the rules:-
"You might go with a were-dire shark (IMO) wizard, with either some sort of chosen template or perhaps the half-fiend template (though that wouldn't be quite accurate)."
And,
"Weresharks were updated in Lost Empires of Faerun as well.
That said, I really like the idea of a dire sharkwere with levels of sorcerer and perhaps some chosen/half-fiend abilities (you could always use powers listed for Sekolah'avatar and clerics in the 2E Monster Mythology and the 2E Sahuagin books for inspiration)." |
|
|
