| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 00:54:05
*Not An Edition War Thread*
I've been getting my toes back into FR the last couple of months, and listening to what people liked and didn't like about the various events that occurred within the various time periods which I'll refer to vaguely as "editions."
We all know that the third of those time periods had cascading RSE's, but one I haven't seen a lot of either vitriol or praise for was the Last Mythal trilogy (which were the last FR novels that I read).
How did everyone like those developments? Was it called for? Warranted? Appreciated? Loathed? Why?
For myself, I sort of liked it. The reclaiming of Myth Drannor had been a dream that many groups of players of mine strove for over the years, and I felt like the Last Mythal sort of drew upon that broad desire expressed by my players, found a way to make it happen, and then made it happen. In a very real sense, it seemed like my players (after decades of RL time) had actually effected a change in the setting.
I got to thinking about this because this sense is something that the authors/designers seem to be looking to create for the 5th time period of Realmslore. Thoughts on that? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MalariaMoon |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 14:15:19
I haven't been much of a fan of the idea and execution of the RSE style novels. The epic nature of events rarely seems to fit into modest page count of the novels, and sadly on a few occasions, the skill of the author. That being said, I'm currently forcing my way through Return of the Archwizards, which certainly shines a favourable light on The Last Mythal (Nothing against Troy Denning, I absolutely loved his Dark Sun novels, but he doesn't quite seem to capture the flavour of the Realms. Furthermore, a lot of the plotting and action scenes seem sloppy and disjointed; I can't quite work out whether the books were edited into oblivion or barely touched at all).
With regards to the reclamation of Myth Drannor, it did a shame to close down such an iconic and unique adventuring site so thoroughly. Furthermore, I also agree that it all happened rather too quickly and easily. In one of Ed's accounts of Myth Drannor, I believe he likened its possible reclamation as some far-flung, nigh-impossible dream; the work of decades rather than the hurried series of battles the books raced through. |
| Quale |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 12:06:46
It had a lot of potential, I did not enjoy it cause the characters were two-dimensional |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 09:56:02
I really enjoyed this series myself. Finally we met some elves with backbone , not the usual "we are leaving these lands forever" crybabies. Also as to the pace of reconstruction , I have to agree that five years seems to be to short a time to rebuild Myth Drannor but it is mentioned that the city has not yet reclaimed its former glory and will probably never fully will by which we can infer that it was not as secure as the elves pretended, though with the might of an elven crusade behind her it is not inconceivable for the Coronal to have cleared most of the city of its less than friendly former inhabitants. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 08:18:21
I haven't read the series, but I think Myth Drannor was more useful to gamers as it was. I am not sure how they can bring that back without it feeling contrived (although we do seem to have an Underdark 'pest problem' coming our way... hmmmm...)
I like some elves in those woods, and we had that with the elven court and a few smaller settlements. That's fine - it gave us an Elven presence in the forest, while still being a good adventuring locale.
Like I said, they'd have to handle it carefully without it appearing 'hokey' - "lets retreat!" "Okay, lets stop retreating!" "Lets retreat again!". While I would love a psuedo-reset to the OGB, I also want logical reasons for everything.
Evermeet I am unsure of - I loved the concept, but it really wasn't very useful (in novels, yes. In D&D sessions, no). Of course, bringing it back would just mean we could ignore it again, which allows fans a choice in the matter. As it stands now, we have to fudge things to use it.
I'd also like to see the Evereska Elves get moved into the High Forest. That location never felt right to me (Elves in mountains instead of forests). And while we are at it, a full 300-page High Forest campaign book - its about time we got one.
I seem to have drifted somewhat off-topic (as usual)... apologies...
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Me, the way I'd do it is with the establishment of a beachhead, of sorts. Get one small area secure, then cleanse and secure the ruins, one small area at a time. Only after you've got a good chunk of territory secure can you rebuild.
This has potential - kinda reminds me of the way some MORPG areas are setup (which is not a bad thing). You have a small 'encampment' - a 'safe zone' - and outside of that all bets are off. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 06:02:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Snip
FWIW, I agree with you. A good adventuring product (Myth Drannor: Purge!) was sacrificed as a plot device to have a happy ending. Reclaiming Myth Drannor could and should have been its own boxed set alluding to each of the machinations you listed for political/urban intrigue spiced with periodic urban dungeon crawls to pacify the city. |
| idilippy |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 06:00:05
I enjoyed reading the books, but in my mind the end result was not something I was a fan of at all. It was just all too fast, the entire city which has stood for centuries(decades, years? I'm not entirely clear on the chronology of Myth Drannor and all my 2e stuff I have room for are packed for moving) as an incredibly dangerous place to adventure being completely cleaned out in just a couple years is not something I personally liked.
I'd have much preferred the reclamation of Myth Drannor to be more of a struggle, with the elves of a Crusade (which may be slowly bleeding out as the young, adventurous elves who make up much of it get disheartened by the efforts not being instantly successful) having a long, hard road to reclaim their abandoned city, a city with dead magic and wild mythal effects that would present problems as well. I'd prefer having the drow, devils, major monsters, and other dangers still holding parts of the city while the sudden reappearance of the elves and their continued presence causes friction in the surrounding areas, or at least among interested groups such as the Zhents who probably would be less than thrilled with a permanent elven presence in the area.
Still, those are quibbles about the series' impact on the setting, which as a DM I can ignore at least. The series itself was pretty fun to read so for entertainment value I think the series does just fine. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 05:13:10
With regard to the apparent location inconsistency between the Dawnspire's details in RoMD and the "Last Mythal" trilogy, I've sometimes felt that there is an 'easy way around it' -- between what we're told in Ruins and what's referenced in the "Last Mythal" books.
Consider that the novel tells us about the temple's destruction [though it's said to be located within Myth Drannor] and the description of the Dawnspire in Ruins clearly places it outside of Myth Drannor. Thus, one could suggest that whatever priests of the clergy for the Dawnspire remained, after what we're told in RoMD, decided to shift parts of the temple into Myth Drannor itself. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 05:02:29
For the most part, I liked The Last Mythal. I do have a couple of quibbles, though...
One is something that was built on from the RoTA books: the idea of mythals needing a capstone. I don't like that lore. I don't see any reason to have that, other than a plot device. It's not even suggested in prior lore that capstones were necessary or were created.
The other thing was the epilogue. The epilogue shows what appears to be a thriving city, just five years later. I think that's far too quick to cleanse the ruins of lingering nastybads, spelltraps, mechanical traps, undead, and so on -- much less rebuilding, on top of that. And let's not get those who would actively oppose this, like Zhents, Sembians, drow, Druth Daern, Dretch, and any other intelligent, unfriendly sorts that may be anywhere close.
Me, the way I'd do it is with the establishment of a beachhead, of sorts. Get one small area secure, then cleanse and secure the ruins, one small area at a time. Only after you've got a good chunk of territory secure can you rebuild.
I think something like that could have lasted for decades of in-game time, and could have kept Myth Drannor as a viable adventure site for a long time.
Oh, and a minor quibble: there was a passing reference to a temple of Lathander in Myth Drannor having been destroyed by the fey'ri. Prior to that passing reference, Lathander did not have a temple in Myth Drannor -- the Dawnspire was nearby, but certainly not in the city limits. I don't quibble about this one too much, because it's not unreasonable to say that the folks at the Dawnspire set up their own beachhead in the City of Song, in the years between the Crusade and the write-up from the boxed set. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 04:10:04
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I really liked the Last Mythal trilogy. Elves are my favorite race, so I'm always excited when novels feature them as main characters. I liked that Myth Drannor was restored, especially because the elves are running out of places to truly call their own. But it is also nice that Myth Drannor is open to visitors. I think this helps preserve it. I also liked how the books gave us insight to elven culture. I would like to see more stories featuring Araevin.
Have you read Evermeet by Elaine Cunningham? It's the definitive elven novel of the realms in my estimation.
Ans on topic....Araevin was one of the highlights of this series. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 03:50:16
I really liked the Last Mythal trilogy. Elves are my favorite race, so I'm always excited when novels feature them as main characters. I liked that Myth Drannor was restored, especially because the elves are running out of places to truly call their own. But it is also nice that Myth Drannor is open to visitors. I think this helps preserve it. I also liked how the books gave us insight to elven culture. I would like to see more stories featuring Araevin. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 02:27:06
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
*Not An Edition War Thread*
I've been getting my toes back into FR the last couple of months, and listening to what people liked and didn't like about the various events that occurred within the various time periods which I'll refer to vaguely as "editions."
We all know that the third of those time periods had cascading RSE's, but one I haven't seen a lot of either vitriol or praise for was the Last Mythal trilogy (which were the last FR novels that I read).
How did everyone like those developments? Was it called for? Warranted? Appreciated? Loathed? Why?
For myself, I sort of liked it. The reclaiming of Myth Drannor had been a dream that many groups of players of mine strove for over the years, and I felt like the Last Mythal sort of drew upon that broad desire expressed by my players, found a way to make it happen, and then made it happen. In a very real sense, it seemed like my players (after decades of RL time) had actually effected a change in the setting.
I got to thinking about this because this sense is something that the authors/designers seem to be looking to create for the 5th time period of Realmslore. Thoughts on that?
I didn't mind it, but I do remember much angst and strong opinion here on it. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 01:35:37
I agree with your sentiment about the reclaiming of Myth Drannor; I found it a refreshing and exiting change for the elven race in Faerun. I didn't like the novel series overmuch, but it had some great setpiece like scenes.
Regarding the input from players affecting the setting I do look forward to see how they plan to implement it seamlessly in the Realms. Some gaming companies have been experimenting with this. For example the Rokugan, Legend of the Five Rings rpg setting has been shaped by the card game for over a decade, and they succesfully implemented their RPG community into the overall story of the game when they launched the Race for the Throne in 2007-2008. A player controlled character somewhere playing Kitsuki Iweko took the throne and became Empress Iweko the First. (How awesome would having your character become the canon ruler of a realm be?!!) |
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