| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 07:21:51
If you have not read the Neverwinter trilogy, this will contain spoilers, just a warning.
I have not finished Charon's Claw yet, so maybe it reveals something I do not know yet, but the concept of whether he is dead or not seems up in the air. One minute Drizzt thinks he is gone, the next he thinks there is a possiblity Jarlaxle is alive. At the end of Gauntlgrym, Jarlaxle was insisting Pwent come back to him with Luskan. This indicates that Jarlaxle is alive and escaped being incinerated by the lava. Not only that, but Salvatore hinted that something was going to happen in Bregon D'earthe involving Jarlaxle reclaiming his position, since Kimmuriel had kind of taken over, it seemed. I was so happy Valas Hune made an appearance! I loved him in WotSQ. And in CC, at least what I have read, there are hints that Jarlaxle could be behind some of the unfolding events in the Underdark. Entreri also mentioned Jarlaxle sold him into slavery to the Netherese. Um...when did this happen? The last I remember, these two parted ways just fine in the Sellswords trilogy.
Please do not give the end of CC away, but I would like to know people's thoughts on Jarlaxle, who seems to be behind so much. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 03:03:05
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Oh, and I forgot to add: there actually is a trilogy called the Sellswords, and it features Jarlaxle and Entreri, but not Drizzt (though Drizzt does have his "journal entries" in the first one of the trilogy. I don't remember if he does in the other two).
Because SOTS was originally released as part of the Drizzt line in the "Paths of Darkness" mini-series, it includes Drizzt Diaries. Even when it was re-released as part of "The Sellswords", it retained those journal entries.
But when WOTC decided to do a non-Drizzt Entreri-&-Jarlaxle spin-off series, POTWK was made without any Drizzt Diaries. In their place, there are passages in which Jarlaxle learns more about a certain Zhengyian phylactery: information which he notably does not share with any of his other associates. This is where the title of the novel is really explained. (The main text of the story, OTOH, is just a good adventure romp.)
Apparently, the spin-off series struggled sales-wise, and it was determined that the lack of Drizzt in the second novel really hurt its marketability; the third novel, ROTP, saw the return of the Drizzt Diaries.
Yes, I remember the first one was originally part of the Paths of Darkness quartet, so that is indeed why it included the Drizzt entries. I honestly didn't care much for the first one, so I liked the journal entries, but POTWK and ROTP were really good. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 01:19:47
LOL, BEAST, I never called him "good". Just said that he may be more influenced by Drizzt than he'd like to admit. Also, I think he's got a sentimental attatchment tothe lad, seeing how he and Zaknafein were once friends. I'd LOVE to read THAT tale....
And although he more or less shrugged Luskan off, he didn't quite do that regarding Neverwinter. I wonder if seeing the harm he inadvertantly caused in Luskan and then again in Neverwinter might have actually made him stop and think? Perhaps he's starting to re-evaluate his goals and methods? |
| BEAST |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 21:02:16
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Oh, and I forgot to add: there actually is a trilogy called the Sellswords, and it features Jarlaxle and Entreri, but not Drizzt (though Drizzt does have his "journal entries" in the first one of the trilogy. I don't remember if he does in the other two).
Because SOTS was originally released as part of the Drizzt line in the "Paths of Darkness" mini-series, it includes Drizzt Diaries. Even when it was re-released as part of "The Sellswords", it retained those journal entries.
But when WOTC decided to do a non-Drizzt Entreri-&-Jarlaxle spin-off series, POTWK was made without any Drizzt Diaries. In their place, there are passages in which Jarlaxle learns more about a certain Zhengyian phylactery: information which he notably does not share with any of his other associates. This is where the title of the novel is really explained. (The main text of the story, OTOH, is just a good adventure romp.)
Apparently, the spin-off series struggled sales-wise, and it was determined that the lack of Drizzt in the second novel really hurt its marketability; the third novel, ROTP, saw the return of the Drizzt Diaries. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 18:58:22
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Oh, I'd say it's more than that. I think that Drizzt really has influenced him, and not just because of breaking free of the Matriarchy. Other drow have done that, as evidenced by the quartet that was working with Obould. Drizzt was not even the first, to judge by the many Eilistraeeans and Vaerhaunites that have been roaming the surface long before he arrived. But his influence on Jar is deeper than that- because if that was really all it was, Jar would not have cared one bit about Entreri or Cadderly's kids, or helping Athrogate restore his dwarven honor when they accidentally woke the primordial.
Jar is doing lots of stuff that seems nice and generous to his associates, without it necessarily being profitable. A lot of it is actually quite costly, I'm guessing.
But even Hitler and Capone bought gifts for people.
After the fall of Luskan to the drow-backed High Captains and the death of Deudermont to one such High Captain, and Jar's shrugged shoulders at it all, I just can't call him goodly.
He seems to be trying to change. Or maybe he's just trying to put on appearances. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 15:41:03
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Thanks. I'd give at least Book I of that series a try. My local bookstores happen to have a plethora of Drizzt novels. And the hardbound and the trade paperback collector's edition are 50-60% off. Not sure about that particular series, though. Will check later if it's available.
Servant of the Shard is probably my favourite RA Salvatore book. For sure pick it up! No Drizzt!
(The Crystal Shard is my sentimental favourite since it's first, but Ghost King is just fantastic too!) |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:36:50
Book 1 was kind of boring for me, but I loved books two and three. You might be able to skip book 1 and just jump to book 2. It's been several years since I read them, and there are likely references to the first two, but that is common in FR anyway ^^; the 1st book, if you are interested, is Servant of the Shard, the 2nd is Promise of the Witch-King, and the 3rd is Road of the Patriarch. Give the 1st a try, and if you don't like it, do try the 2nd. I, at least, really enjoyed them ^^ |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:28:01
Thanks. I'd give at least Book I of that series a try. My local bookstores happen to have a plethora of Drizzt novels. And the hardbound and the trade paperback collector's edition are 50-60% off. Not sure about that particular series, though. Will check later if it's available. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:18:31
Oh, and I forgot to add: there actually is a trilogy called the Sellswords, and it features Jarlaxle and Entreri, but not Drizzt (though Drizzt does have his "journal entries" in the first one of the trilogy. I don't remember if he does in the other two). |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:16:59
Why don't you like him? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:05:02
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Hmm. I might like him. Though I have to work really hard into trying to accept Drizzt. In the one book I read (and didn't finish) where Drizzt donned a prominent role, I couldn't bring myself to like him. But one day, only Bane knows when, I'll get over these biases. I just feel that I'm missing a rather big chunk of FR lore by ignoring dozens of novels to avoid some characters.
You don't need to like Drizzt in order to love Jar.   
Right, I don't need to. But, as I understand, in most (if not all books) where Jarl appeared, Drizzt's also there. I can't ignore a character specially if said character is a main one. I don't wish to like Drizzt. That might be impossible. But I'd hope to at least tolerate him.
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
One bit of controversy about him right now, in the late 1400s DR, is whether Drizzt's morals are rubbing off on him a little...
So he's more EMO these days? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:04:08
Oh, I'd say it's more than that. I think that Drizzt really has influenced him, and not just because of breaking free of the Matriarchy. Other drow have done that, as evidenced by the quartet that was working with Obould. Drizzt was not even the first, to judge by the many Eilistraeeans and Vaerhaunites that have been roaming the surface long before he arrived. But his influence on Jar is deeper than that- because if that was really all it was, Jar would not have cared one bit about Entreri or Cadderly's kids, or helping Athrogate restore his dwarven honor when they accidentally woke the primordial.
Jarlaxle is a very cunning fighter, when he has to be, he'd just rather not get his hands dirty. As to his preference, he's more swashbuckler than anything, with a heavy dose of magic-use. Spellsword/beguiler? All in all, just good fun. |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 04:43:45
He prefers magic, and thrown magical daggers, but he's very good with his swords when he has to use them. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 04:15:16
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In any fight, what does Jarl favor/use more? Magic or blades? [I'm thinking of giving Drizzt and Co. books a try someday.]
Bob says that Jarlaxle prefers trickery and magic to the blade, which makes it sound like he is more of a wizard/battle-mage than a fighter, at heart.
Here's an excerpt from The Ghost King:
quote:
Jarlaxle hated this kind of fight. Most of his battle repertoire, both magical and physical, was designed to misdirect, to confuse, and to keep his opponent off-balance.
You couldn’t confuse a brainless skeleton or zombie. (TGK, P1:C1)
In the ensuing fight, he uses a ring, wand, and modified figurine of wondrous power, rather than any blades.
What's more, when the heat gets to be too much, he has the wisdom to ride, and live to fight another day.
Because that particular novel featured the Spellplague in the background, Jarlaxle was constantly worried that his primary means of engaging enemies might backfire on him at any time.
In conversation, Bob likens Jar to Batman, with his utility belt of magical items and ingredients, always managing to put an end to any dicey situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Hmm. I might like him. Though I have to work really hard into trying to accept Drizzt. In the one book I read (and didn't finish) where Drizzt donned a prominent role, I couldn't bring myself to like him. But one day, only Bane knows when, I'll get over these biases. I just feel that I'm missing a rather big chunk of FR lore by ignoring dozens of novels to avoid some characters.
You don't need to like Drizzt in order to love Jar.
One bit of controversy about him right now, in the late 1400s DR, is whether Drizzt's morals are rubbing off on him a little, or if he simply admires Drizzt for being able to successfully break free of the matriarchal hell of Menzoberranzan. Jar still conspires with all sorts of nasty sorts, so I doubt the former is true. Methinks he wants the benefits of Drizzt's defiant independence, without the burdens of his conscience and self-restraint.
At any rate, that he makes deals with goodly and evil personalities alike, and seems to be welcomed by all, makes him a very enjoyable character to read about. He has a seductive charm that makes you want to keep reading on, knowing full well that he is probably up to no good, and has alterior motives going on. It's just that what he offers sounds so good, you can't help but want to believe it.
Jarlaxle is a major player in Menzo, and occasionally takes forays onto the surface for a little adventure, citing profit as his alleged reason for doing so. But I don't know how big of a deal he should be deemed to the Realms as a whole. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 04:08:16
Oh, I forgot to check the most accessible source of all (FRWiki). Based on the Combat section of his entry:
quote:
When forced into combat, Jarlaxle will throw a seemingly unlimited supply of magical daggers conferred to him by his bracers. One in every three or so daggers is an illusion, but can still be fatal if it is believed to be real. The daggers will magically disappear after a short period of time, returning themselves to his magic bracers.
He is extremely skilled in the two long-blade fighting style commonly used by the drow, though when mismatched with less skilled opponents he has been known to use the less effective but visually showy swashbuckling style to distract them - though his mastery of this style was enough to impress even Artemis Entreri, the famed assassin and Jarlaxle's former companion.
...So that means, often a combination of magic and steel? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 03:59:39
Umm...I think magic, though I believe he's used blades before. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 03:20:13
Hmm. I might like him. Though I have to work really hard into trying to accept Drizzt. In the one book I read (and didn't finish) where Drizzt donned a prominent role, I couldn't bring myself to like him. But one day, only Bane knows when, I'll get over these biases. I just feel that I'm missing a rather big chunk of FR lore by ignoring dozens of novels to avoid some characters. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 03:12:09
I would say magic, because it helps him accomplish what I said above. He is the type that much rather gets what he want by trickery (including magic) then by 'getting his hands dirty'.
Its not that he isn't an excellent swordsman - its just that he feels its too... crude? He is an artist, and his medium is people. Clubbing someone over the head lacks the subtlety he so enjoys.
Just my 2¢ |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:59:19
Okay. But when he's forced to do the dirty work himself (which I gather he'd done, otherwise he'd be a very boring character just staying aloof in the background), what does he favor? Steel or magic? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:34:07
He favors tricking someone else into doing his dirty work for him. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:28:23
In any fight, what does Jarl favor/use more? Magic or blades? [I'm thinking of giving Drizzt and Co. books a try someday.] |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 01:57:28
See, this is what I always thought the journals were for- so he could think about things like that and work through them on his own. He's never needed anyone else for that before- why should he start now? Dahlia is just a crutch for needing companionship, even if she's like the polar opposite of what he was before. If anything, it's like looking into a mirror of what he's becoming. On a side-note, it almost seems like she is rubbing off on him in a really bad way. I actually almost cheered Jarlaxle when he gave Drizzt that little slap in the face/wake-up call of a lecture in Gauntlegrym. (You all know the one I mean...) He hit the nail on the head with that one. I'm surprised that Drizzy hasn't taken it more to heart by now (unless he has in the NW and CC books...). |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 20:10:43
I think that Dahlia is perfect for Drizzt right now. She constantly questions and belittles his morals, forcing him to look within and find his true self.
Trouble is with Drizzt is that he no longer has a place in the world, no true love or companionship (except Guen) that he surely craves and misses. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 19:33:12
@Alytsra: I agree, I understand what she wanted for the child (who I have suspicions about, and you might too once you read Neverwinter), but yeah, I just don't her as a character. And yeah, that is a good question!
@Arcanus: yes, I agree that he is lost and alone (poor guy). I still love Drizzt, and he's been through a lot, but it doesn't mean I like how the story is going. That said, perhaps you're right in that if Dahlia is redeemed, perhaps he will find peace again. Still...he could do so much better than her IMO, but she (and Entreri) are all he has right now. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it lol |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 16:05:25
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It was stated at the beginning of Neverwinter in the first of Drizzt's "journal entries" in that book. And yeah, honestly, I don't know what Drizzt sees in Dahlia. She had a bad childhood, to be sure, but it doesn't make me love her. I've loved plenty of other characters with terrible pasts (and have quite a few of my own), but not Dahlia. Catti was so much better. I don't think Drizzt loves Dahlia, I think it is merely lust and intrigue, which is another thing that is different from the old Drizzt.
Totally off topic, but we have the same avatar lol.
Drizzt feels lost. For the first time since he left the underdark he is truly alone. One by one time has taken his adopted family and loved ones from him.
He feels as if his life has no purpose. What's the point of caring if everybody's going to die anyway? It is a battle between his very highly held morality and his angst over recent tragic events.
In Dhalia, he sees the same bad ethos (to a much greater extent) that he himself is experiencing.
Does Drizzt love Dahlia? Maybe not but he wants to redeem her. If he succeeds he may resolve his inner conflict and return to the "good" Drizzt we have become accustomed to. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 09:29:39
I noticed, lol! And I agree. What I've seen of her so far just makes me dislike her, to be honest. Granted, I'd probably have done the same in her position- no woman wants to be riminded of what was done to her by being forced to bear the child of her rapist. From a woman's perspective, it's a choice between knowing that that child would eventually be taken away to be raised by that same monster, or doing the most merciful thing possible for it- because what happens when it is older and learns of how it came to be? Eitehr it would hate the motehr for being weak, or hate teh father for what he did, or both. No chance of a decent life there. SHe did what she thought was best- and turned into a slap in the face to the creep who caused it, to boot.
On am different note- am I the only one who even wonders how that was even possible in the first place? Elves can't conceive until they are about 100, so HOW did she even have a child at twelve??!! That would make her like 5 in human terms.... Even in Gauntlegrym, she was still way underage (for an elf) for that to be possible. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 09:03:58
It was stated at the beginning of Neverwinter in the first of Drizzt's "journal entries" in that book. And yeah, honestly, I don't know what Drizzt sees in Dahlia. She had a bad childhood, to be sure, but it doesn't make me love her. I've loved plenty of other characters with terrible pasts (and have quite a few of my own), but not Dahlia. Catti was so much better. I don't think Drizzt loves Dahlia, I think it is merely lust and intrigue, which is another thing that is different from the old Drizzt.
Totally off topic, but we have the same avatar lol. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 08:48:37
Where was that stated, anyway? I've only read Gauntlegrym, haven't got my hands on Neverwinter yet, and not reading Charon's Claw until I do. Was that something Dahlia said? Cause she's full of crap, then. Or maybe she's just bitter about her own past and the fact that she's never been around otehr elves- her own village was lsaughtered, weren't they? All the men were killed, and all the women raped, IIRC. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 08:38:47
Exactly (poor Zaor, I liked him). I'll bet if Catti-brie were an elf and hadn't died in the Spellplague, she and Drizzt would still be together. I doubt after a hundred years an elf couple decides to call things off because it's an "anchor". Sometimes couples will have their own advantures for a few years, but they eventually return to each other. It was one statement in the whole novel, but it really stuck out to me, and I was thinking "what, where did THAT come from? Innovndil (sp?) never said elves don't mate for life!" |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 07:24:53
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Oh, and honestly, I do not like the effect Dahlia has had on Drizzt. I miss the old Drizzt. Plus, the statement about elves not mating for life contradicts what is said in the Last Mythal trilogy. But I suppose that is irrelevant to this thread. Anyway, I hope Jarlaxle returns.
Not to mention it contradicts half of Evermeet. Queen Amlaruil and King Zaor were married for most of their lives, and faithful to each other, for Arvandor's sake! And she never re-married after his death. Elves not mate for life?! Since WHEN??!! |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 06:51:31
Okay then :) guess I'll know when I finish reading it. I'm reading several FR books at once, so it's taking me longer to finish each one ^^; |
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