| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Barastir |
Posted - 13 Aug 2025 : 14:25:07
I liked the new bladesinger from Unearthed Arcana more than the previous 5th edition version, but there is one thing I was thinking about. Since it gains proficiency in many weapons, and not in a specific weapon, I think it loses one aspect which I see as an important concept of the bladesinger, which is your weapon's style, that is symbolized by an animal tattoo.
I was also wondering if, instead of broadening the choice of weapons, it would be nicer, lore-wise, to give him proficiency only in one one-handed weapon, as it was before, but allow the bladesinger to use the weapon's mastery property. What do you think about it? I am not very well-versed in 5th edition / 2024 rules, do you believe the bladesinger would be overpowered by this change? Thanks in advance! |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 20 Aug 2025 : 15:30:25
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yeah, one must remember... they can't wear armor with the UA version
Good call!
quote:
However, if you were going to try and be more melee focused, and you're already doing one level of fighter for weapon mastery... 3 levels of fighter would get you into eldritch knight.
(...)
You would have weapon mastery with 3 weapons.
(...)
You'd have a "war bond" with two weapons such that you could summon it from anywhere and couldn't be disarmed (so it could be a weapon that you throw and then switch to another mastered weapon for instance).
Maybe going to Eldritch Knight could be nice...
I forgot fighters had 3 masteries (and 2 weapon bonds), while other fighting classes have 2 masteries. My idea was but one mastery because of the style's focus on one weapon type. Maybe you could get masteries in similar weapons (cat style bladesingers getting multiple blades' masteries), following Tom Costa's suggestion on weapon groups, but then again each style originally specializes in one weapon (lion: long sword, leopard: scimitar, etc.).
Maybe the style could give mastery AND bond with one weapon only, but would giving both abilities instead of proficiency in a broader choice of weapons be too much? Maybe not, since you are restricted to one weapon type - also limiting the chance of finding magical weapons of that type, as mentioned by Tom. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Aug 2025 : 14:44:49
Yeah, one must remember... they can't wear armor with the UA version (that being said, they DO get their intelligence bonus to AC and I could see spells to make AC better, rings of protection, stuff to increase dex, floating shields, phantom armor that's illusory but partially real without hindering a spellcaster, etc...)
However, if you were going to try and be more melee focused, and you're already doing one level of fighter for weapon mastery... 3 levels of fighter would get you into eldritch knight. 1/3 of your eldritch knights levels goes towards multiclassing for your spell slots, such that if you were say a 6th wizard (bladesinger)/3rd fighter (eldritch knight) you'd have spell slots like a 7th level caster. You would have weapon mastery with 3 weapons. You'd have a "war bond" with two weapons such that you could summon it from anywhere and couldn't be disarmed (so it could be a weapon that you throw and then switch to another mastered weapon for instance). From the eld. knight you'd get 2 more cantrips as well, such that the bladesinger ability to attack and cantrip in the same round becomes more useful (and more interesting with cantrips that mix in an attack possibly... would need to look at things like greenflame blade). Granted, you'd have less higher level spells available (i.e. you'd be 3 levels behind instead of 1 on what spells you could memorize as a wizard), but if you truly wanted to have the flexibility of physical combat.... which can be nice against some opponents.... the options would be there.
By the way, if you did do something like this .... a dancing weapon that you throw away like a hand axe or a spear ... pull out a sword ... it absolutely fits the feel if the sword and spear are the bonded weapons. You hurl the spear, let it fight a bit, it returns, you just drop the sword, hurl the spear... summon the sword back to hand.... you can't be disarmed. Of course, 2 dancing weapons that you alternate between would be even better.... but I'd rather a defender to get AC up. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 15 Aug 2025 : 01:56:50
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I might limit them to one weapon or make them take a level of fighter or another class with weapon mastery. Not a horrible choice.
And Diffan, thanks for the 4e tip.
Welcome 
As for giving Bladesingers the weapon mastery in 1 weapon vs proficiency in a bunch is a fine trade-off. I mean, lets be honest they're still Wizards and they're gonna play like them until there's a solid reason to enter melee. So the times they do get into the mix, I don't see them really employing a slew of different weapons vs just a singular one. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 14 Aug 2025 : 03:23:10
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I might limit them to one weapon or make them take a level of fighter or another class with weapon mastery. Not a horrible choice.
Yes, I would use mastery only for the style's weapon, in place of the broadening of weapon proficiency. But taking but one level in another class - maybe fighter, because bladedingers were originally fighter/mages - would do the trick with minimal loss, thank you for the advice.
And Diffan, thanks for the 4e tip. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 13 Aug 2025 : 21:53:55
Good catch Diffan. I thought there was a 4E version, but didn't look in the Neverwinter book and figured I was misremembering.
For weapon mastery, I might limit them to one weapon or make them take a level of fighter or another class with weapon mastery. Not a horrible choice. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 13 Aug 2025 : 18:23:21
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I find it interesting that when they were introduced in 2E Complete Book of Elves they were mostly as you say, but it specifically says: "Recommended: one-weapon style for use in combat and spells; two-handed style for use when spells run out." But then it focuses on one-handed weapons later in their benefits.
I always thought that they could be proficient with other weapons, but that the bladesong benefits would only work with the weapon of the style.
quote:
Then 5E SCAG brought back the animal styles (in a sidebar not included in Tasha's) hinted at in 2E and re-broadened the weapon choices to fit those styles.
In fact, even in 2e part of the lore came from The Complete Book of Elves, but part came from Elves of Evermeet - including the organization in lodges and their tattoos, IIRC. Besides, in 2e the styles were not restricted to blades, that's true, but each style has its own weapon.
quote:
And that said, you could probably limit by standard weapon damage type (B/P/S) to split the difference or groups (as suggested by the style types in SCAG--blades, hafted weapons, chain/whip weapons--though the last group is pretty small), without too much impact.
This could be one solution. But what about weapon mastery, do you think it would overpower the subclass? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 13 Aug 2025 : 18:08:45
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
IThen 4E had the swordmage, which is just harder to compare to.
Just for inclusive reasons, 4e did have a dedicated Bladesinger class which was detailed in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting book. It was a sub-class of the Wizard that prioritized the rapier and longsword and got wizard encounter spells as daily spells in their spellbook. They were primarily used in melee combat since their spellblade cantrips provided a lot of utility and they dealt decent damage when their Bladesong was active. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 13 Aug 2025 : 14:42:32
I find it interesting that when they were introduced in 2E Complete Book of Elves they were mostly as you say, but it specifically says: "Recommended: one-weapon style for use in combat and spells; two-handed style for use when spells run out." But then it focuses on one-handed weapons later in their benefits. Then 3E relegated them to just rapiers and longswords (which negated the use of shortswords, elven thinblades, whips, etc.). Then 4E had the swordmage, which is just harder to compare to. Then 5E SCAG brought back the animal styles (in a sidebar not included in Tasha's) hinted at in 2E and re-broadened the weapon choices to fit those styles.
They were clearly focused on longswords above all else because elves were automatically proficient in them in most editions, they were "blades," and they could be wielded with one or two hands, but most editions left other options open as possible.
All that said, it appears that the original version didn't limit the bladesinger's choices except insofar as 2E characters got weapon proficiencies one at a time and not in groupings. Given that, I think from a lore perspective it's fine to have multiple weapon proficiencies. From a mechanics perspective, it allows the player to change up if they find a cool magic weapon, rather than trapping them into one thing.
And that said, you could probably limit by standard weapon damage type (B/P/S) to split the difference or groups (as suggested by the style types in SCAG--blades, hafted weapons, chain/whip weapons--though the last group is pretty small), without too much impact. |
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