| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ozreth |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 14:29:39
I am a fan of both settings, but in later years have come back to the Realms as one I prefer for gaming. I appreciate the wealth of lore, the novels, the sourcebooks, in ways that I didn't as much back in the day, when I found them a bit overwhelming and a little restricting. I have also come to enjoy the more fantastical and high magic elements of the realms as I've aged. I want more fantasy in my fantasy. I once saw somebody call Greyhawk MEDIEVAL fantasy and the realms medieval FANTASY, I like that.
But anyways, both are of a time that many people who got their start in the late 80s, 90s, or early 2000s (via living GH and Paizo) could have easily gotten into Greyhawk over the Realms (though obviously the Realms had more of a published presence over Greyhawk).
So I ask, if you were ever in a position to look at both and decide that one was to be your main gaming world, why did you stick with the Realms and not Greyhawk? |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 22:44:33
quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Opinions may vary of course...I feel Dragonlance is more sword and sorcery with very little healing...depending on when you play.
Forgotten Realms to me isn't high fantasy either though; but I think that is because I don't pay much attention to products (with some exceptions) after the old grey box.
What defines something as high fantasy, heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, etc. isn't actually the presence or absence of magical elements but instead the general plot and themes. The term high fantasy, sometimes rendered as epic fantasy, refers specifically to the Tolkien model of quests and clear battles between cosmic forces of good and evil, which Dragonlance fits into really well. The absence of much healing magic in fact supports the idea that it's high fantasy because a theme of ancient powers recently returned to the world, both for good and for ill, is a strong recurrent motif in the high fantasy genre.
The Forgotten Realms fits very well into the heroic fantasy mould because Ed Greenwood has been fairly up-front about those specific influences. In fact if you read the Leiber stories properly you get a really solid vibe of the kind of influences that built both of the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk alike.
They're actually a lot closer tonally than many of the other settings tend to be.
One thing that makes a whole lot more sense is looking at the powerful figures like Elminster, Khelben, and the Seven Sisters through the lens of the Leiber stories. They feel in the vein of Sheelba of the Eyeless Face and Ningauble of the Seven Eyes. The powerful immortal wizards users who serve as the patrons of Fafhrd and the Mouser, pulling strings and manipulating events on a cosmic scale while the mortal heroes basically scrabble about to survive the goings on.
Yes.
Like I said, it depends on when you play in Dragonlance. If we are talking about after the gods come back...that is different than playing before they come back. The "Story" of the heroes of the lance is going to be vastly different than some mercenary adventurers being sellswords in the city of Sanction before the Dragonarmies are there...
And, using only the Old Grey Box...my Forgotten Realms is vastly different than that portrayed by later releases of novels and gaming products.
Like I said: opinions will vary. |
| Scots Dragon |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 21:46:59
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Opinions may vary of course...I feel Dragonlance is more sword and sorcery with very little healing...depending on when you play.
Forgotten Realms to me isn't high fantasy either though; but I think that is because I don't pay much attention to products (with some exceptions) after the old grey box.
What defines something as high fantasy, heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, etc. isn't actually the presence or absence of magical elements but instead the general plot and themes. The term high fantasy, sometimes rendered as epic fantasy, refers specifically to the Tolkien model of quests and clear battles between cosmic forces of good and evil, which Dragonlance fits into really well. The absence of much healing magic in fact supports the idea that it's high fantasy because a theme of ancient powers recently returned to the world, both for good and for ill, is a strong recurrent motif in the high fantasy genre.
The Forgotten Realms fits very well into the heroic fantasy mould because Ed Greenwood has been fairly up-front about those specific influences. In fact if you read the Leiber stories properly you get a really solid vibe of the kind of influences that built both of the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk alike.
They're actually a lot closer tonally than many of the other settings tend to be.
One thing that makes a whole lot more sense is looking at the powerful figures like Elminster, Khelben, and the Seven Sisters through the lens of the Leiber stories. They feel in the vein of Sheelba of the Eyeless Face and Ningauble of the Seven Eyes. The powerful immortal wizards users who serve as the patrons of Fafhrd and the Mouser, pulling strings and manipulating events on a cosmic scale while the mortal heroes basically scrabble about to survive the goings on. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 21:26:05
Opinions may vary of course...I feel Dragonlance is more sword and sorcery with very little healing...depending on when you play.
Forgotten Realms to me isn't high fantasy either though; but I think that is because I don't pay much attention to products (with some exceptions) after the old grey box. |
| Scots Dragon |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 19:49:21
Ironically the Forgotten Realms is pretty directly inspired by Leiber-esque fantasy.
I think Dragonlance is TSR's high fantasy world. |
| EltonRobb |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 19:42:16
quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
So I ask, if you were ever in a position to look at both and decide that one was to be your main gaming world, why did you stick with the Realms and not Greyhawk?
Actually, I'm a fan of both settings. I tend to view the Realms as High Fantasy (like that of Tolkien) and Greyhawk as Heroic Fantasy (like that of Leiber). Both have different approaches. When I got the Forgotten Realms boxed set in 1993, I was very excited to run it! To me, Forgotten Realms is TSR's High Fantasy world. However, if you want to make the Realms your own, just get an introductory boxed set or the 3.0 FRCS and run that. (Although I have many of the expansion books, my favorite is FR2 -- the Moonshaes).
Greyhawk is Heroic Fantasy, but it's not as detailed as the Realms. I have more room to express myself with the World of Greyhawk. And I have. I asked if I could write an article for one of the fanzines, and I got "You should!" So, I wrote an article about how Warmages (the version of the class I used is from Complete Arcane) worked in Greyhawk. I took inspiration from the Sacred Band of Thebes to bring my version of how warmages worked to life.
Forgotten Realms is also BIG! And DMs can basically pick any country they want in the Realms to run a game. Greyhawk's Flanaess is considerably smaller, and you also can pick any country they want in Greyhawk to run a game. The difference between the two is detail. Forgotten Realms is very detailed -- Joseph Bloch has said that the Forgotten Realms is so detailed that a DM has no room to build off that detail (I disagree with this, the details are there to help you build upon).
Greyhawk, on the other hand, is a sparse skeleton, allowing the DM to add his own details. Which is a good thing. In conclusion, now I would run Greyhawk. But when I run the Realms, I will be running a campaign from the AD&D First Edition boxed set (bought it from DRIVETHRU!) or the 3.0 FRCS (have a digital and a hard copy!). I bought Waterdeep (3rd) because I want to run a game there. Eric Boyd did great work on Waterdeep. |
| Scots Dragon |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 17:10:25
Mostly the Forgotten Realms is what I got into the game with to begin with, by way of the various CRPGs in the late-90s and early-00s.
I like Greyhawk well enough, but I sort of consider myself a fan of the Forgotten Realms first and Dungeons & Dragons second, for lack of a better way of putting it. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 16:05:01
For me I had to have both. The "original Realms" old grey box and Greyhawk as well. The two aren't that different in level of magic really...with perhaps Greyhawk having just as many "big name casters" as the original published Forgotten Realms; although admittedly there are some heavy hitters noted such as Elminster, Khelben, the Simbul, etc.
Heck, Manshoon was only level 16...back then.
I do like the more in depth detail of the Realms over Greyhawk to be certain. That individuals like Guthbert Golthammer heads a force of 4,000 mercenaries...but is only a 4th level fighter...made me feel like the adventuring party's Heroic individuals were truly heroes without having to be arch-mages and such.
At the same time though, I needed to know why Tenser's Floating Disc would even be in the Forgotten Realms...or Bigby's spells and etc. So I just put them in the same world now.
I'm not a "Realms Purist" by any means obviously. 
Sorry for the crappy link...
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipzWO8nLQVqCDBV57TNMKCzYwqT9wG96d-lIflHnf_h2kwHpLm0M_NW8QWDzQIgdi93sM6-6An562mV1zSPxD8tasIMpxZn8nJlbEO5eSofiVJnDib9vPvATXjPLBzP2A88SaRHE0SIr7U_JucyUJ_geThuOVRzqJF-U9gVQrtNqkGjO5W9p7xDbcJx6kn/s2268/The%20Grey%20Realms%20-%20Lands.png |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 06 Oct 2025 : 15:53:40
I started in the 90s, heard of both greyhawk and the realms.
It could have gone either way if both settings were equal, but they are not.
Greyhawk is a top down designed setting. The gods and nations and big things are established first and they drive the narrative.
The realms is a bottom up designed setting. Ed designed the interesting people and gave them story and histories and purpose and they then drove the narrative. The rest of the realms developed around that.
But what got me in particular was the secrets. I first picked up the FRCS 2e boxed set and started reading, and came across characters like the seven sisters, or shandril, or manshoon. As i read other sourcebooks i found out more bits of information about their backstories, and within those backstories are secrets that you can only discover if you are really paying attention.
Most of those secrets are now out there, like how a dragon attack mention in the dalelands sourcebook was actually revealed as secretly being the dracolich augloroasa in disguise, but that is what got me hooked, finding the secrets, connecting the dots, and making new realmslore as a result.
Finding out Khelben Blackstaff was actually centuries old and is masquerading as his own great, great, great, grand nephew was a shock, as was his involvement with Laeral during all that time, and how they kept meeting each other but being unable to do anything about it. |
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