| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 17:11:56
What would be a good way, and suggestions, for me to create my deities?
I'm asking because I can name them for their races, be it human or whatever, but when it starts to the creation of the deities, I start getting stuck. It's not like I don't have a decent idea on what I would like to do with the deity, but I'm just having a difficult time on the organizing the deity.
Anyone have any tips of suggestions on how to organize them when it comes to details and information for them?
*Note: I couldn't find anywhere else here at Candlekeep Forums to post this thing. I know it isn't Realms, but I did not notice a General Non-Realms Section. So if this gets moved, or locked, I understand, given I did read each one very carefully... |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Melfius |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 01:25:07
Thanks, kuje. I thought that he was, but couldn't find my book to check. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 01:16:43
Velsharoon is Millifleur since Powers & Pantheons lists that as his alias.
|
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 00:41:15
Yes. There is a PS2 games for it. You have Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance, and Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2. Baldurs Gate 3 is in the works. The guy who keeps an eye on the Rasalvatore.com boards has seen screen shots and says it is quiet good looking.
I do like these two games, but others do not for they say it isn't like the PC Games. Which, I will agree with, for the PC games seems to have more in them then the PS games.
First Dark Alliance isn't as well as the Second one. First one is just laying the ground work and getting you into it. Second one is tieing up some loose ends, and finding out you have bigger ones. |
| Alparon |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 23:42:13
da PC game
is there a PS game(i've heard of BG3 many times) |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 21:33:20
Well, is that the PS or PC game? I'm presuming PC game due to me never have seeing that in BG2DA PS |
| Alparon |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 20:35:14
but but.........
i was so sure
they even sold his robe in Baldur's Gate 2!! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 00:30:05
I'll agree on the Vecna thing: to the best of my knowledge, he's not had any contact with or presence in the Realms. |
| the psychotic seaotter |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 00:13:28
To my knowldge Vecna has never appeared in FR. As a side not his appearance in Ravenloft was hotly contested and has been ignored as far as several fans go. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 16:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
i'm talking about vecna;
the guy that lost one hand and one eye!
even his symbol is a hand holding an eye!!!!!!!
am i wrong in all this,
i thought he was a forgotten realms character
Well it is risky to say never so might have appeared in FR, however he was more featured in Greyhawk and Ravenloft. |
| Alparon |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 16:34:47
i'm talking about vecna;
the guy that lost one hand and one eye!
even his symbol is a hand holding an eye!!!!!!!
am i wrong in all this,
i thought he was a forgotten realms character |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 14:17:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
While that's true for nearly every Outer Plane, the Outlands (or Concordat Opposition) is characterised by the fact that it has no alignment. It is home to deities of neutrality, petitioners of the non-aligned, and the Rilmani... keepers of the Balance and the exemplar race of all-things-neutral.
The hazard of quoting from the SRD. At least you corrected error. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 13:25:13
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Each of the Outer Planes has an alignment, representing a particular moral or ethical outlook, and the natives of each plane tend to behave in agreement with that planes alignment.
While that's true for nearly every Outer Plane, the Outlands (or Concordat Opposition) is characterised by the fact that it has no alignment. It is home to deities of neutrality, petitioners of the non-aligned, and the Rilmani... keepers of the Balance and the exemplar race of all-things-neutral.
It should be noted that individual choice shifts a strictly neutral position to either good or evil, law or chaos. Such is the way of the Outer Planes.
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 08:06:15
quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Yes, another question I have been wondering. How many Realms are there in the DnD/FR world? I know of Material, Shadow, Water, Earth, Air, Fire (Forget the other one I know), but I know the list continues for some time. Anyone know of a decent amount of them?
"Material Plane: The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does. This is the default plane for most adventures.
Transitive Planes: These three planes have one important common characteristic: Each is used to get from one place to another. The Astral Plane is a conduit to all other planes, while the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow both serve as means of transportation within the Material Plane theyre connected to. These planes have the strongest regular interaction with the Material Plane and are often accessed by using various spells. They have native inhabitants as well.
Inner Planes: These six planes are manifestations of the basic building blocks of the universe. Each is made up of a single type of energy or element that overwhelms all others. The natives of a particular Inner Plane are made of the same energy or element as the plane itself.
Outer Planes: The deities live on the Outer Planes, as do creatures such as celestials, demons, and devils. Each of the Outer Planes has an alignment, representing a particular moral or ethical outlook, and the natives of each plane tend to behave in agreement with that planes alignment. The Outer Planes are also the final resting place of souls from the Material Plane, whether that final rest takes the form of calm introspection or eternal damnation.
Demiplanes:This catch-all category covers all extradimensional spaces that function like planes but have measurable size and limited access. Other kinds of planes are theoretically infinite in size, but a demiplane might be only a few hundred feet across."
The 6 inner planes consist of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Positive and Negitive. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 06:20:56
Kentinal, you did get terms wrong, and I tried to point things out without dragging things off-topic. I did it in a friendly way. It's up to you if you want to take offense at what I say. But if you do, it's only fair to warn you that I come well-armed with religous facts, and while I don't wear my religion on my sleave, it's very much a part of who I am. Start insulting it, and I get less and less nice. |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 16:25:50
Well, there has only been one thing that I have tooken really so far from Real Life Religion. I think I was watching History channel or something and they where talking about God or something, or I think the Angels, and how there are like several layers of angels, say from your Angel, to your UberDuperSuperAngel right below God. So I was thinking something like that I could play into for a couple dozen of the pantheons deities (Not just Human, Elf, etc.etc.)
Shar is Cher. Cher is Shar. The names just sound to much alike to me. I'm sorry. But they are one in the same. Or at least, Ed was inspired by the Later 70's/80's Cher to form Shar.
Yes, another question I have been wondering. How many Realms are there in the DnD/FR world? I know of Material, Shadow, Water, Earth, Air, Fire (Forget the other one I know), but I know the list continues for some time. Anyone know of a decent amount of them?
Edit: I forgot to say that I forget the name of the Angel-Being under god. SO no one take offesne to the UberSuperDuperAngel thing  |
| Melfius |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 15:00:08
I would like to apologize for my part in this situation. It won't happen again. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 14:18:12
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Of course your post certainly appears t be a flame, and hardly educational.
You claim to know more then me, you say I use the wrong terms, and you imply that I am an idiot that might get snapped at.
Kentinal,
Bookwyrm's post was many things. However, it was not a flame or labeling you as quoted above. Rather, Bookwyrm within his first sentence used the word please in attempting to steer the conversation away from a topic that can quickly erupt into a flame war.
SB |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 13:50:31
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Kentinal, on the subject of Real Life religions, please check to see if you are using correct terms before going on about such things. As one of the people you were just talking about, I apparently know quite a bit more. I'm not insulted or anything -- it's just that many people find this a touchy-to-the-point-of-condemnation subject (i.e., "If you don't do it my way, you're not right!"). I've no wish to see anyone snapped at for being idiots, which is why I like to spread education.  (An outmoded concept these days, it seems.  )
*shrugs*
The terms are correct, saints are prayed to by many for things like travel and so on. When/if they grant such requests prehaps flow though the one true source. From an objective view point indeed most "monothist" religions do indeed have deities.
Of course your post certainly appears to be a flame, and hardly educational.
You claim to know more then me, you say I use the wrong terms, and you imply that I am an idiot that might get snapped at.
" Inflected Forms deities
Definition 1.a god or goddess. Crossref. Syn. holy , idol
Definition 2.the essential character, nature, or condition of a god; divinity.
Definition 3.someone or something worshiped as a god. Example Power is his deity.
Definition 4.(cap.) God."
Edit: corrected a typo and tried to fix post format.
Returning to Wordsmyth (an online dictionary) I find this.
polytheism = 1.the belief in more than one god.
monotheism = 1.the belief that there is only one supreme being.
Perhaps it was not the best resource to use as many polytheist religions do have one god over the others.
|
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 10:49:34
Kentinal, on the subject of Real Life religions, please check to see if you are using correct terms before going on about such things. As one of the people you were just talking about, I apparently know quite a bit more. I'm not insulted or anything -- it's just that many people find this a touchy-to-the-point-of-condemnation subject (i.e., "If you don't do it my way, you're not right!"). I've no wish to see anyone snapped at for being idiots, which is why I like to spread education. (An outmoded concept these days, it seems. )
On the topic, as I mentioned on here a long while back, I'd made a minor effort to take the patron saints and assign possible D&D domains to them. The idea of this system was that while all divine power flowed from God, and the domains didn't actually belong to the saints, clerics who closely identified themselves with a particular saint would be more likely to choose particular domains. For instance, St. Michael the Archangel is the patron of policement, guards, and soldiers. Obviously, he'd be associated with War, Law, and Protection (and as an archangel, likely with Celestial). St. Francis would be associated with Animal; St. Tomas Aquinas with Knowledge; and of course, St. Brendan with Travel. Others are more tricky -- St. Patrick, for example, would depend greatly on whether you wished to emphasize his role as a folk hero or on what we know he actually did. (Animal and Exorcism would be likely for the first, while Community and Travel would be more in tune with the latter.)
On the whole, you could conceivably pick any domain you wanted that was on God's list (more on that in a moment), but you could be certain that if you followed the teachings of a particular saint, your selection of domains would likely be far more limited than if you were a "generalist" (a Christian cleric with no particular saintly ties, which wouldn't be required at all).
God's list is basically anything non-evil in nature. While most clerics would tend to Law, Chaos would still be permitted (and would often be considered a recognition of how far God is beyond us that we can only perceive Him by freeing our minds of worldly orders). This version would not be seen as the direct antithesis of Law. However, the Chaos of Satan would be, as it would be more in tune with the D&D concept of the Law/Chaos axis. In this D&Dified version, Satan can grant power, but not easily; most satanists would turn to wizardry for power (borrowing heavily from The Book of Vile Deeds).
Now, let's move from Real Life to a completely fantasy setting. Not much changes, on the face of it. However, what you'll find in this type of system are two things. Either you have one overgod with minigods per pantheon (however many there are; in the above, there'd technically be two, even though there'd only be one God), or you have different aspects of the same god granting different powers.
The latter might be confusing, but only on the face of it. Take a nature god. This god could be a god of the harvest, weather, earth, air, water, animals, plants, and even family. And each aspect could be flipped: famine, storms, blood hunts, monsters, etc. Each aspect could present different feat selections as well as a mound of roleplaying differences. (Characters crying "heretic" at one another would only be scratching the surface.)
In the pantheon version, you'd get a balance between this and the standard D&D version. That is, you'd have a nature god with minor gods controling each aspect; the overgod would tend to neutral, while the subordinates would likely squabble amongst themselves (the lawful good deity of good harvests versus the chaotic evil deity of famine and hunger, with the neutral deity of plants caught in the middle). |
| Melfius |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 08:35:27
Aww, don't worry about it. I'm not wanting a debate either!  |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 05:08:14
The lesser saints or angels of the monotheistic religions, serve as lessor deities in their own right and all of them have at least minor powers. As a template certainly one can look to one powerful deity, but most have that. The only difference I can see between monotheistic and polytheistic religion is calling the lessor powers deities.
I am trying to avoid a religious debate, just trying to indidicate that from where I stand I do not see a majority believing in one deity, not matter which major class of religion you select. |
| Melfius |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:45:29
Well, the largest religions are monotheistic. But what do I know? I'm a Discordian!
Anyways, another idea would be, borrowing from another, well-know religion, the idea of one God, but with several saints who are patron of different areas. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:41:50
quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Also, who says you have to have a polytheistic setting? Even today, there are few pantheons worshipped, most have moved to monotheistic (one god) religions.
Well the question asked was for gods for at least different races and perhaps powers. As for today IRL I dispute the assertiion that one diety is worshiped or even followed by most people, the sub-groups are so diverse that those one the one G-d claim others of the same G-d (and source material) are not a true believer. There are also unofficial myths that deify prophets, helpmates , etc. |
| Melfius |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:30:05
Thanks, psycho-otter!
Also, you may want to decide if you want your deities to be overseeing concepts, or actual tangibles. The difference between a god of Love or a god of Birth. There's gods of professions (Gond), gods of events (like War). Look at the different pantheons here in human history. The gods of the Native Americans are alot different than the Greeks.
Also, who says you have to have a polytheistic setting? Even today, there are few pantheons worshipped, most have moved to monotheistic (one god) religions.
Or, like in the Realms, there could be several penatheons, depending on the region and the beliefs of the region. The Faerūnian Pantheon is the most all-inclusive, but regions like Mulhorand/Unther borrow heavily from Egyptian, Maztica is mostly Axtec/Mayan/Inca (Qotal is Quetzelcoatl), Kara-Tur is Asian. Each has their own flavor.
When I created my world, I used abstracts like love, then but things like passion, lust, marriage as lesser deities answerable to the greater deity of Love. Then, to round them out, I made sure the opposite concepts were also represented. Thus, I had Hate followed by rage, jealousy, and ultimately murder.
But, again, that's just my opinion.  |
| the psychotic seaotter |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:01:39
Melfius has hit it right on there. I know in a world I am working on (not for gaming) that the Gods prooved to be a bit tough. Until I went in from the angle that the people there were used to various types of war and are commonly woodsmen or hunters.
So I went with the angle of more miltant and nature based gods over any other kind. I assigned about three major dieties and then placed smaller ones under the major ones to create a kind of Heiarchy or Beuracrocy (sp?).
Granted I have failed to explian this well but I think you get the idea. As to mythology of the gods I did what everyone who tries this does..borrowed from real world myth and made my own alterations as needed.
So far so good. |
| Melfius |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:45:13
Hmmm...Cher...Shar....NAH!
Adding deities to FR could start with filling out the various schools of magic as lesser powers under Azuth. We already have Necromancy (Velsharoon) and Divination (Savras). Why not go from there?
In a campaign I once played in, one of my characters was promoted to being the God of Magical Artifice, who was a sort of go-between for Mystra and Gond. He created new magic items and spells. Just a thought.
When creating deities for your own world, you should look at what the people of your world value. Not monetarily, but morally and/or physically. The broadest topics would become your Greater Powers, then work your way down, being more specific as you go.
Hope it helps! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:43:17
quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Not to get off my topic much...But FR was roughly introuduced to use 25, 30 years ago correct? Thats when I'd say Cher was huge and everything. Has anyone ever tried and make the connect between Cher and Shar? They sound to much alike to me, and I'm sure Shar has a few Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves following her around. It's something I've wondered a little bit now...either way intresting'esk.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence... Though some of Cher's music has made me wonder if she's an evil goddess of darkness and loss. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:40:30
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best  .
Refresh my memory on who Mellifleur is?
The myth of Mellifleur's origin is that he was an ancient wizard (of unspecified race) who was attempting to become a lich, but who somehow synched with the divine energies an evil god or gods had been using to raise a servant (or servants) to godhood, and inadvertantly stole them, becoming a god in the intended's place.
According to Monster Mythology, Mellifleur seems to trade blows with his enemies through avatars, instead of either side actively going for the true god behind the avatars.
Monster Mythology certainly lends enough credence to the possibility that there is a link between Mellifleur and Velsharoon... their methods of ascension have great similarities between them.
However, I can find no mention of Velsharoon as a possible alias for Mellifleur in either Faiths and Avatars (but that should have been obvious), Faiths and Pantheons, or the aforementioned Monster Mythology.
I can go on if you wish...?
Nope, you have informed me quite well, thank you. 
I shall (when I have time) have to grab out my copy of Monster Mythology and look this gent up. It's been like 2 years since I even flipped thru that book... |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 02:13:17
And now comes my fun challenge of creating such things for my gods, demi gods, and all that fun stuff.
So if I am reading all of these posts correctly, there are two Liche Gods in FR? I roughly try and get ideas on how many deities to what type of person, Liche as an example, I might want and all that stuff. Usually I try not and copy them though, but it is a writers right to steal little things isn't it ;) lol.
I do know there is over 50 Human gods, which is quite large. Given Ed did take a few from Earth (Mielikki example.)
Not to get off my topic much...But FR was roughly introuduced to use 25, 30 years ago correct? Thats when I'd say Cher was huge and everything. Has anyone ever tried and make the connect between Cher and Shar? They sound to much alike to me, and I'm sure Shar has a few Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves following her around. It's something I've wondered a little bit now...either way intresting'esk. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 01:58:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best .
Refresh my memory on who Mellifleur is?
The myth of Mellifleur's origin is that he was an ancient wizard (of unspecified race) who was attempting to become a lich, but who somehow synched with the divine energies an evil god or gods had been using to raise a servant (or servants) to godhood, and inadvertantly stole them, becoming a god in the intended's place.
According to Monster Mythology, Mellifleur seems to trade blows with his enemies through avatars, instead of either side actively going for the true god behind the avatars.
Monster Mythology certainly lends enough credence to the possibility that there is a link between Mellifleur and Velsharoon... their methods of ascension have great similarities between them.
However, I can find no mention of Velsharoon as a possible alias for Mellifleur in either Faiths and Avatars (but that should have been obvious), Faiths and Pantheons, or the aforementioned Monster Mythology.
I can go on if you wish...?
|
|
|
