| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Trace_Coburn |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 07:08:20
Quick thing that's been bugging me - for those who've been able to read the trilogy dealing with the Tuigan Horde (the Horselords trilogy, IIRC?), how did Azoun's forces get from Cormyr to Thesk? Did they travel by land, sail across the Sea of Fallen Stars, or did somebody figure out a way to teleport fifty-odd thousand men and all their supplies to a battlefield half a continent away? 
What were their major waypoints during the journey? (e.g. if they went by sea, did they leave directly from Suzail to Telflamm, or did they stop off at any points along the way?) |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 17:20:42
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
According to page 98 and 99 of the crusade, as mentioned in my earlier post, it was upwards of 30,000 troops initially. I would believe this to be an adequate number. Considering skill level, leader as well as troop experience, and then technology in weapons and armour, this could be believable even in RW history.
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
The big problem I had with it can be summed with the word "logistics". It's actually the commonest problem with fantasy warfare, but in most books it doesn't seem like the author put any thought at all into it. The Tuigan are horse nomads yet Yamun let's them get besieged in Shou Lung - lots of fodder for your horses there matey - and decides to spend the winter concentrated near a lake in Rashemen - when in reality they've got to disperse to get enough grazing for their horse. And I'm not impressed by his concept of a frontal charge by light cavalry against a formed infantry line.
Also, can Thesk really supply that many troops moving about? Economics doesn't suggest it.
The problem with anything “in” fantasy is that the fantasy still has to be rooted in some sort of reality, in some degree, like simple gravity, weather patterns and the length diurnal/nocturnal cycles (anything “alien” is usually attributed to other planes of existence or dimensions) and then make logical decisions based on that “reality”.
The logistics of the Crusade are sketchy enough to begin with but then you have to factor in the “reality” of magic...arcane spells to move things around, repair things, recon and sentry duty and divine spells to create and purify food and water, heal blisters, diseases and wounds, etc.
Everyone forgets the simple but mighty power of a cantrip/orison to make life better
So to logistically analyze the Crusade, you have to enter in the dozens of mages and priests that were present, the power levels of each and what magic they had at their disposal. And on top of that there are magic items (especially if can imagine the Crusade in the over-abundantly rich 3.0 D&D setting)
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| Bluenose |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 16:56:39
The big problem I had with it can be summed with the word "logistics". It's actually the commonest problem with fantasy warfare, but in most books it doesn't seem like the author put any thought at all into it. The Tuigan are horse nomads yet Yamun let's them get besieged in Shou Lung - lots of fodder for your horses there matey - and decides to spend the winter concentrated near a lake in Rashemen - when in reality they've got to disperse to get enough grazing for their horse. And I'm not impressed by his concept of a frontal charge by light cavalry against a formed infantry line.
Also, can Thesk really supply that many troops moving about? Economics doesn't suggest it. |
| scererar |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 05:52:21
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I think the atmosphere (and views of some of the characters) presentented in this book are quite naive, overly positive and far-fetched. The whole "Listen, it's up to US to stop the Tuigans - let's be heroes and travel across half the world to fight them with our 15000 men"-idea just plainly sucks, in my opinion. Why would any wise ruler do that? And then there are the Cormyrean guilds, primarily the Trappers' Guild ...  This is, in my opinion, the worst FR novel ever written along all that stuff Marc Anthony wrote.
I truly loved Horselords and Dragonwall. Both were well written, had good main characters with believable motives, and strong plots.
According to page 98 and 99 of the crusade, as mentioned in my earlier post, it was upwards of 30,000 troops initially. I would believe this to be an adequate number. Considering skill level, leader as well as troop experience, and then technology in weapons and armour, this could be believable even in RW history. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 10:45:42
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
What exactly is your problem with it? I am just curious about that. I didn't really like the first book in the series all that much, as we got a lot of character development of charcters that would either not appear later in the series, or were suppose to be the villain and weren't even a perspective character later. Dragonwall was interesting, but without ever going back into Shou Lung, it was kind of a wasted effort. Crusade was at least tied to a lot more of Realmslore than the other books.
I didn't have a problem with how Azoun or Vangerdahast were presented, and I liked how the Thayans managed to manuver the Tuigan into doing their dirty work, while still presenting them as a threat. I liked the Zhent idea about sending orcish troops, i.e. easily replaced troops that would be a problem for Azoun to manage, while still showing that they had contributed to the effort. And this is where we got Alusair back into the picture.
I'm just curious as to why it was so bad as to have you wish it not part of Realmslore.
I think the atmosphere (and views of some of the characters) presentented in this book are quite naive, overly positive and far-fetched. The whole "Listen, it's up to US to stop the Tuigans - let's be heroes and travel across half the world to fight them with our 15000 men"-idea just plainly sucks, in my opinion. Why would any wise ruler do that? And then there are the Cormyrean guilds, primarily the Trappers' Guild ... This is, in my opinion, the worst FR novel ever written along all that stuff Marc Anthony wrote.
I truly loved Horselords and Dragonwall. Both were well written, had good main characters with believable motives, and strong plots.
So you would've preferred Azoun not use wise judgement and wisdom to rally the forces of the "West" to meet the invading Tuigan Horde from the "East?" Considering his efforts to bring the Army of the Alliance together, and the concessions he had to make in order to get some of the more disparate groups to work together... we learn a great deal about how Azoun operates, not only as ruler of the Forest Kingdom, but in relation to his abilities outside Cormyr as well.
I consider Crusade to be a somewhat fitting tribute to Azoun as a leader.
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 01:40:59
According to a guy over at enworld Dragon 349 (November)will have a Hordelands Gazetter detailing the horse nomads of the Forgotten Realms
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| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 00:55:54
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
What exactly is your problem with it? I am just curious about that. I didn't really like the first book in the series all that much, as we got a lot of character development of charcters that would either not appear later in the series, or were suppose to be the villain and weren't even a perspective character later. Dragonwall was interesting, but without ever going back into Shou Lung, it was kind of a wasted effort. Crusade was at least tied to a lot more of Realmslore than the other books.
I didn't have a problem with how Azoun or Vangerdahast were presented, and I liked how the Thayans managed to manuver the Tuigan into doing their dirty work, while still presenting them as a threat. I liked the Zhent idea about sending orcish troops, i.e. easily replaced troops that would be a problem for Azoun to manage, while still showing that they had contributed to the effort. And this is where we got Alusair back into the picture.
I'm just curious as to why it was so bad as to have you wish it not part of Realmslore.
I think the atmosphere (and views of some of the characters) presentented in this book are quite naive, overly positive and far-fetched. The whole "Listen, it's up to US to stop the Tuigans - let's be heroes and travel across half the world to fight them with our 15000 men"-idea just plainly sucks, in my opinion. Why would any wise ruler do that? And then there are the Cormyrean guilds, primarily the Trappers' Guild ... This is, in my opinion, the worst FR novel ever written along all that stuff Marc Anthony wrote.
I truly loved Horselords and Dragonwall. Both were well written, had good main characters with believable motives, and strong plots. |
| khorne |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 15:22:54
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I consider Crusade to be the "weakest link" in this otherwise well-written trilogy (and, reading some other related posts, I am probably not the only one who thinks that way).
It is a shame that this book is part of canon Realmslore  
What exactly is your problem with the book? The only thing that ticked me of is that the Tuigan got beaten. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 18:50:44
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I consider Crusade to be the "weakest link" in this otherwise well-written trilogy (and, reading some other related posts, I am probably not the only one who thinks that way).
It is a shame that this book is part of canon Realmslore
It's actually my fave of the three books. There's been a couple of times I've read that book by itself, without reading the rest of the trilogy. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 18:46:36
What exactly is your problem with it? I am just curious about that. I didn't really like the first book in the series all that much, as we got a lot of character development of charcters that would either not appear later in the series, or were suppose to be the villain and weren't even a perspective character later. Dragonwall was interesting, but without ever going back into Shou Lung, it was kind of a wasted effort. Crusade was at least tied to a lot more of Realmslore than the other books.
I didn't have a problem with how Azoun or Vangerdahast were presented, and I liked how the Thayans managed to manuver the Tuigan into doing their dirty work, while still presenting them as a threat. I liked the Zhent idea about sending orcish troops, i.e. easily replaced troops that would be a problem for Azoun to manage, while still showing that they had contributed to the effort. And this is where we got Alusair back into the picture.
I'm just curious as to why it was so bad as to have you wish it not part of Realmslore. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 18:31:35
I consider Crusade to be the "weakest link" in this otherwise well-written trilogy (and, reading some other related posts, I am probably not the only one who thinks that way).
It is a shame that this book is part of canon Realmslore |
| scererar |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 18:05:31
The converging point for the armies under the banner of Azoun is Telflamm, within Thesk. It would appear that several routes would be included by the various troops. However, I would imagine that at the least a short trip across the easting reach would be in order for most of them.
Additionally, Pages 98 and 99 of the Crusade shows a listing of troop strength, from the various communities supporting the crusade against the Tuigan, reflecting an initial military strength of over 30,000 troops. Most interesting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 16:06:07
I've not read the trilogy since Hurricane Frances left me without power for a week... But yeah, they did travel by sea. I just don't recall much more than that, other than the impromptu sacrifice they had to make to Umberlee, en route. |
| Chyron |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 15:31:36
If you can find it, you might source FR12 Horde Campaign for some info as well.
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/fr/fr12.htm
I don't have either the novel or the accessory on hand at the moment (in storage currently)...but perhaps one of the other sages can check to see if it has any relevant info....
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| Alaundo |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 11:03:02
quote:
Originally posted by Trace_Coburn
Quick thing that's been bugging me - for those who've been able to read the trilogy dealing with the Tuigan Horde (the Horselords trilogy, IIRC?), how did Azoun's forces get from Cormyr to Thesk? Did they travel by land, sail across the Sea of Fallen Stars, or did somebody figure out a way to teleport fifty-odd thousand men and all their supplies to a battlefield half a continent away?
What were their major waypoints during the journey? (e.g. if they went by sea, did they leave directly from Suzail to Telflamm, or did they stop off at any points along the way?)
Well met
They did indeed travel by sea. I don't recall the actual route but Telflamm does ring a bell for their destination.
Can anyone else expand on this? |
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