| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 00:08:54
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Elfshadow. Please discuss the Prelude and Chapters 1 - 4 herein: |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 23:44:29
An argument not relevant to this thread though. :-)
(I swear, this argument creeps up in a huge number of threads---and I'd like to point out that I didn't bring it up or participate in this one)
Other things I liked about the book though are that Danillo is such a lovable fellow! I do admit that the fact he traveled with Arilyn without her even knowing it was hilarious. One thing I was surprised about though is the Harpers don't employ assassins yet Arilyn is pretty much exactly that.
I must confess that Danillo and Arilyn's romance also appealed to me in that they are definitely a case of opposite's attracting. The two couldn't be more different but they compliment each other very well.
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| Reefy |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 22:05:45
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
But that isn't necessarily the case. At least, not in the Realms as I see it.
Me neither - there's an example for every conceivable scenario and purpose, but Shandril is an obvious example of a normal person gifted with extraordinary power. It's the ancient argument on whether PCs/heroes are by definition the cream of the crop, or if they are just normal people the same as everyone else who just develop certain skills. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 01:14:18
The books of Harpers who've never heard of each other bear that out.
BUTTTTTttt it is for those two and I for one appreciated it.
:-)
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 00:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well that wasn't my point.
I actually don't even think that Danillo is a high ranking Harper. Arilyn actually seemed higher ranking and she's still a grunt on the field. No, my point was that by establishing these characters ties to one another, it makes it clear that everyone who becomes a hero is part of a fairly elect group.
But that isn't necessarily the case. At least, not in the Realms as I see it.
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 00:21:51
Well that wasn't my point.
I actually don't even think that Danillo is a high ranking Harper. Arilyn actually seemed higher ranking and she's still a grunt on the field. No, my point was that by establishing these characters ties to one another, it makes it clear that everyone who becomes a hero is part of a fairly elect group.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 00:06:34
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It helps imply that this characters don't exist in a vacuum. Danillo Thann is part of the Harpers. The Harpers books help establish that he knows not only Arilyn Moonblade but by proxy Bran Skorlsun, Bronwyn, and Khelben of Waterdeep. I wouldn't be surprised if Danillo knows Storm and others as well. These people work and live together while doing their job.
Yeah, but there are other people in the Realms besides these characters. *shrug* The vibe I got from your post, to be honest was: "If you don't have some sort of political power or rank in a secret organization, you'd better damn well be related to one of the "big guns" in the Realms, or else you aren't a worthwhile character."
And that, I would disagree with.
quote:
The fact that Danillo is part of Khelben's family also helps establish that the Archmages don't exist alone in the Realms but have lives that tie together.
That point, I do actually agree with. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:31:31
It helps imply that this characters don't exist in a vacuum. Danillo Thann is part of the Harpers. The Harpers books help establish that he knows not only Arilyn Moonblade but by proxy Bran Skorlsun, Bronwyn, and Khelben of Waterdeep. I wouldn't be surprised if Danillo knows Storm and others as well. These people work and live together while doing their job.
The fact that Danillo is part of Khelben's family also helps establish that the Archmages don't exist alone in the Realms but have lives that tie together. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:18:25
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Let's face it, Danillo Thann isn't anything special in the Harpers but he's still Khelben's grandson and apprentice. Those connections make the characters more important and real than anything else.
How so? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 20:14:06
I want to say Elfshadow is probably my favorite Realms book. It embodies all that I think is best about the Realms. Like Alias, Arilyn Moonblade is a UNIQUE heroine and that's what makes her cool. She's got a fairly crazy background but there's no sense that any of this is uncommon in the Realms. It's just one of the many countless tales that occurs in such a wonderful place as the Realms.
Let's face it, Danillo Thann isn't anything special in the Harpers but he's still Khelben's grandson and apprentice. Those connections make the characters more important and real than anything else.
I also love Kymil Nimsen better than any other villain in the Realms because he's got such a "human" motivation. Kymil hates human beings and wants to see them all destroyed if he can. It's such a simple and realistic motivation that I'm surprised it hasn't been used before.
I wonder if Kymil would get involved with the Eldath Verrunna (sp?) or whether his equal loathing of Moon Elves would get the man into trouble there. |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 22:15:35
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Although I must admit, Elaith Craulnober intrigues me more than a little...
See? :p
When I first read the Songs & Swords series, I liked Arilyn the most, but years after, I think my favourite's become Danilo.
I'm fairly fond of anti-heroes, but I'm fonder still of stories where there are many characters, and it's not clear who's "hero" or "villain." It makes them much more real. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 21:00:47
Although I must admit, Elaith Craulnober intrigues me more than a little... |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 20:59:26
My Apologies, Winterfox,
I am not familiar with that particular tome. I am a fan of the old school fantasy, heroic fantasy, if you will. people rising above themselves to do some noble thing. I do not care much for the anti-hero that I am seeing so much of in today's fantasy. I love a noble quest to right a wrong or a person doing the right thing and striving to save the weak or oppressed. (call me a romantic) I like a character (such as Danilo or Arilyn) that strives to do the right thing, even when not sure what the right thing is... A good, somewhat on topic example of this; Danilo, (in Dreamspheres) trying to help out his half-sister, I think her name was Lily. Great scene. Danilo is a believeable hero. This is simply my preference. |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:32:24
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Have I ever mentioned before that I need heroes in the stories I read?
Off-topic, but I'm curious: why is that? I take it you don't like, say, Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire much, then? |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 17:48:25
Not to make the Great Sage mad, but... Thank you Elaine for your geat news and great novels. I have LOVED both Arilyn and Danilo, and even Elaith. Elfshadow is a FR book that I hold as one of the best FR novels. The reason for this is the interesting and detailed characters. Both of these characters are heroes in every sense of the word, without being stereotypical, fantasy type heroes. Have I ever mentioned before that I need heroes in the stories I read? |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 16:54:51
Perhaps someone should try to bring the scroll back on topic away from celebrations of book-contracts and hrm...writing with a sword (which I guess puts the lie to the old saying .
I've read Elfshadow three times before (and in less than a year too ), but when I made note for this post I tried to write them as if it was my first time through - not sure quite how well I succeeded.
Prelude
What I reacted to here was how from sentence one it is clear that we are reading a fantasy-novel, and how well Elaine sets the mood of the place we are looking in at.
quote:
The elf emerged in a glade, a small verdant meadow...
As the prelude continues I like how we realises that this is not a very nice elf by seeing things from his point of view, and how at its very end, at the assassin's death, we get a sense that someone even more ruthless is going to play a part in the story.
And on a further note, something I did not notice before is that several scenes that would later appear in Evermeet - Island of Elves are mentioned as the sun-elf assassin progresses through the garden: The Green Island Dragonwar, the landfall of the Elven Armada. (At least if I a, correct in interpreting these as being one of the fights against raging dragons, and arrival of a Spelljammer ship).
Chapter 1
And here our heroine enters the story, although she may not be fully prepared just yet.
We also get to see the beginnings of Arilyn's characterisation, how she is in some ways loner (or maybe just lonely), and that she has a stubborn streak in her, as shown by her determination to keep the sword as her own, and how, while she feels a bit abashed by her outburst about joining the watch, still won't take it back when Kymil chides her for it. Oh, and we realises that she has some talent with a sword, of course And just maybe, that sword means that there are great things in store for her.
As for Kymil, we can see that while Arilyn may be hero-worshipping him (I gather he has about the same status in Evereska that a sports-star has in our world), what we see from his perspective makes us realise that he is not a completely sympathetic character - but we're left unsure as to whether he's a good or a bad guy since he does treat Arilyn really nice at the chapter's conclusion.
Chapter 2
And we're off! This is obviously where our adventure starts off, and as the chapter progresses we get to see the first example of Elaine's, to become famous, wit "I generally don't drink tea." As well as a word for a member of the Zhentarim I'd not mind seeing used more often - Zhentishman.
In the continuing characterisation of Arilyn, we discover that she's no longer a naïve child, but has developed a toughness and a good sense of reality during the off-scene years of adventuring, and we also get to see that she's basically honest (she doesn't want the Harpers blamed for her little insurance-policy).
The appearance of (who we will learn later is) the Harper Assassin at the end of the Chapter is a nice end of the main-story's opening chapter, we're still not 100% sure that it's not Arilyn, however, in...
...Chapter 3
it is made abundantly clear that Arilyn is much to honourable to kill someone in the manner that the old informant and the Harper ranger is done in. The action here is nice, but what really strikes one about them is how well Elaine uses them to keep establishing points about Arilyn's personality - the above-mentioned honourability, as well as her competence at what she is doing.
The escape from Darkhold gives us another nice glimpse, she doesn't like bats, but she's not someone who will get stopped by the suspicion of something nasty appearing in front of her.
And the brooding-scene at the end of the chapter, where she has left the caravan and is heading for Evereska, gives us yet another few pieces of her puzzle - she is lonely, and the trail of murders in her wake is beginning to greatly unsettle her. A good way of showing that she does have her vulnerabilities.
Chapter 4
I think the first note I made here says a lot: "Ah - Waterdeep."
I love how we get a look at Danilo's two sides, on one hand the silly fop and dilettante, on the other the (according to Khelben) quite competent adventurer and Harper. As has been said before, very reminiscent of the Scarlet Pimpernel.
And let's face it, Danilo is in many ways pure, unadulterated fun at this stage, I believe my favourite line is "Danilo was highly partial to green," when he studies the portrait of Arilyn. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Nov 2005 : 04:28:08
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
On another note, I'm very pleased that Elfshadow was chosen for the Candlekeep bookclub, and the timing couldn't be better. I recently received contracts for a sixth and final novel in the Songs & Swords series. More Arilyn and Danilo (and Elaith, of course) are on the way. I'm really looking forward to spending time with these old friends. :)
*reads that* !!!
*reads that again, just to make sure she's getting it right* Oh. Em. Gee. Sorry, I'm too stunned -- in a good way -- at the moment to reply coherently.
*squeals* I cannot WAIT... |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 22:03:39
quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
Please take heed of what Alaundo has already said. If you wish to discuss the new book, use the thread provided.
Lets keep these bookclubs on track and only use this one for discussing Chapters 1 - 4 of Elfshadow!
Thanks
Sorry, I just read the Elaine's post and inmediatly answered it. |
| Malarick |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 11:00:09
Please take heed of what Alaundo has already said. If you wish to discuss the new book, use the thread provided.
Lets keep these bookclubs on track and only use this one for discussing Chapters 1 - 4 of Elfshadow!
Thanks |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 07:35:23
Another Danilo, Arilyn and Elaith's adventure!!!!!!!!!?????????
:: Starts grabbing his hair:: CAn't wait, can't wait, can't wait |
| Berzerker_prime |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 06:01:13
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Have you SEEN the rune for Z in the Espruar Forgotten Realms font? Hard to get anyone to stand still long enough for you to carve that into their clothes. Besides, Amnestria/Z'beryl would have been more likely to cut a little deeper. (Hey, she WAS engaged to Elaith, you know...)
Oh, I dunno, a nice stun spell, maybe a little rope, a critical success or two...
I don't have any referance to hand for the older version of Espruar, but from what I've seen of it, it would indeed make the mind boggle. I do like it better than the v3.5 version which looks too suspiciously like Tolkienian Tengwar for my tastes. But looking at the FRCS, at least the v3.5 Espruar character wouldn't be too hard to cut into something, provided one has enough blade control. Just four cuts, really. Up, left, right, left.
On the other hand, it would be darkly amusing to watch anyone try to carve any letters into someone's clothing with a two-handed sword. Hello, Waterdeep Watch? Can I get a clean up on The Way of the Dragon?
Berz.
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| DrJackal |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 04:46:08
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
On another note, I'm very pleased that Elfshadow was chosen for the Candlekeep bookclub, and the timing couldn't be better. I recently received contracts for a sixth and final novel in the Songs & Swords series. More Arilyn and Danilo (and Elaith, of course) are on the way. I'm really looking forward to spending time with these old friends. :)
YAY!
Now if WoTC will just pony up for another Liriel book...
I'm meandering my way through "Starlight and Shadows"; I'll pick up "Elfshadow" for a reread when I'm done. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 23:55:50
Well met
As wonderful as this news is, please let's keep this scroll to discussing Elfshadow. If ye wish to discuss the new Songs and Swords novel, please use this new scroll.
Thank ye  |
| hooper101 |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 23:15:47
I was thinking Scarlet Pimpernel when I read it! How funny! |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 22:07:38
Wow, Elaine, this is AWESOME! Danily, Arilyn, Elaith....oh, I want to see how it turns out for them....and the Thiones, and Hhune and Kymil Nimesin....wow, Elaine, simply wow...thank you so much! Can you tell us when it is expected for release or plot details?
Now we just see a Thornhold sequel and life is complete! |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 21:58:26
quote:
Originally posted by KajehaseZ'beryl wouldn't by any chance ever decide to carve a Z into the clothes of her vanquished opponents?
Have you SEEN the rune for Z in the Espruar Forgotten Realms font? Hard to get anyone to stand still long enough for you to carve that into their clothes. Besides, Amnestria/Z'beryl would have been more likely to cut a little deeper. (Hey, she WAS engaged to Elaith, you know...)
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 18:19:44
*repeats Winterfox's previous actions* A new Danilo & Arilyn story  *then does his "giddy with happiness whilst sitting down dance" (believe me, none reading this want a closer description). Wheee!!
quote:
originally posted by Elaine Cunningham
These days I tend to share the aversion to the apostrophe in names. I still like to use the occasional Z, but the appeal of that letter is also fading. Live and learn, and other songs from the same album.
Z'beryl wouldn't by any chance ever decide to carve a Z into the clothes of her vanquished opponents? |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 17:15:02
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
One suggestion, Alaundo: Maybe just one thread for the "classic novel" discussions? Most of the people who participate have probably read the entire novel.
On another note, I'm very pleased that Elfshadow was chosen for the Candlekeep bookclub, and the timing couldn't be better. I recently received contracts for a sixth and final novel in the Songs & Swords series. More Arilyn and Danilo (and Elaith, of course) are on the way. I'm really looking forward to spending time with these old friends. :)
Well met
This is most splendid news, Elaine. Now i'm just too giddy for words!
Of course, it goes without saying to report back here as soon as more details can be revealed |
| khorne |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 16:47:31
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
On another note, I'm very pleased that Elfshadow was chosen for the Candlekeep bookclub, and the timing couldn't be better. I recently received contracts for a sixth and final novel in the Songs & Swords series. More Arilyn and Danilo (and Elaith, of course) are on the way. I'm really looking forward to spending time with these old friends. :)
k...k...KAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
(que the music) HALELLUJAHH, HALEEELLUJAH, HALELLUJAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!! |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 16:41:15
In retrospect, I would have to agree with the folks who found the name Z'beryl less than appealing. When I started writing ELFSHADOW, I was relatively new to sword & sorcery novels in general and the Realms in particular. One of the reasons I always advise aspiring readers to read widely and voraciously is that unless you do so, you're unlikely to avoid cliche. You have to know what the cliches are before you can steer clear of them.
These days I tend to share the aversion to the apostrophe in names. I still like to use the occasional Z, but the appeal of that letter is also fading. Live and learn, and other songs from the same album.
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| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 16:33:13
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
On another note, I'm very pleased that Elfshadow was chosen for the Candlekeep bookclub, and the timing couldn't be better. I recently received contracts for a sixth and final novel in the Songs & Swords series. More Arilyn and Danilo (and Elaith, of course) are on the way. I'm really looking forward to spending time with these old friends. :)
*reads that* !!!
*reads that again, just to make sure she's getting it right* Oh. Em. Gee. Sorry, I'm too stunned -- in a good way -- at the moment to reply coherently.
Believe me, I can relate. I've been sitting on this news for a while, waiting for coherency to kick in.
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