| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 19:14:06
With the canceling of Reclamation, I spent a lot of time today going through my old character sheets and the well-loved copies of the Song and Swords books on the wall. I felt it would be appropriate to give the characters thereof an appropriate send off by saying how much they meant to me and telling Elaine Cunningham such.
No bashing please, as a personal favor. This is only to share our love for the Song and Swords series in our laps and in our games.
The rest of my post is somewhat bemused wandering.
I'm something of a writer myself, albeit unsuccessful in anything but a few sales. So I understand that it might just be a matter of a hundred different things that prevent the book from being completed (characters not jelling, lack of inspiration, disappointment in the result, just "not in the mood to write this.") I also won't gainsay your decision, final or otherwise.
I would like to say, though, how much the series has meant to me and if this is the end. I'd like to share my feelings on it. I have a first edition copy of Elfshadow I got when it first came out in 1991. In other words, 16 years ago. I was a twelve year old at that time without much in the way of experience with fantasy literature despite being a major dork.
At the time, I was a major fan of Dragonlance and largely dismissed the Forgotten Realms series. But, Elaine, after I finished Elfshadow you are responsible directly for the following conversation that took place.
Me: Hey guys, Elves!
Chris: What about them?
Me: Elves are awesome.
Chris: ....Why?
Me: Cause they've got these awesome magical Moonblades.
Chris: Okay...
Me: So make up an Elf character and we're going to play in the Realms.
Chris: I thought we were playing in Dragonlance.
Me: Not anymore!
(I was twelve, sue me)
I won't lie to you that my first Realms character was not exactly the height of originality. You see, Akkanas the Ranger was a Half-Elf who was ostracized from Elvish Society despite being of noble birth. He also sought after his family's moonblade to prove himself to the Elvish people. Yes, everyone else was playing a Drizzt clone. You, Elaine, have at least one Alternate Sex Arilyn-clone in D&D.
Akkanas would eventually fall to the way-side for my Samurai character Fuji (made when I was sixteen---my originality wasn't really pronounced then either) and only was brought out later to become a Viggo Morgenstern Aragorn clone once or twice many years later. But it was my first really successful D&D campaign and I owe a lot of it to you.
(Of course, when the Complete Book of Elves came out, I made my players utterly sick of the pointy earred race for nearly a decade)
Arilyn and Danillo bear an almost unique place in Faerun-616 (a reference to the thread [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=983248]here.[/url]). They're welcome characters in a way that Drizzt Do'Urden isn't or any other FR NPCs tend to not be (Elminster and Alusair have the only real exceptions to this rule). All of the players have read the books or at least have knowledge of them that they're considered something of old friends. Our Arilyn and Danillo are a bit different from canon though as Danillo became Khelben's successor against his better judgment (no one knows quite WHY the Blackstaff took up parlor tricks and patronizing the arts but its served the city quite well). The players, who have faced down Bane, also have a healthy respect for "The Serpent" that they extend only to Artemis Entreri in matching terms.
You've pretty much helped me write my past ten years of Forgotten Realms gaming Elaine and I thank you for that. You introduced me to Lucia Thione, the Knights of the Shield, Moonblades, Amnestria, The Royal Family of Evermeet, gave me an origin for Lolth's enimity of the Seldarine, and also made my favorite Fantasy Heroine crush Bronwyn who ranks up with Aeris from Final Fantasy VIII and Claire Redfield for "weird likes my girlfriend must never find out about"
So, I give you a hearty cheer and a toast as we close the chapter on the story of a very near and dear set of friends.
Thank you.
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| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 03 Jun 2008 : 15:12:32
I loved Song & Swords and still do, and always will. Lord bless Ms. Cunningham for creating/introducing us to Arilyn, Danilo, Elaith, and all the rest.
And let me add, I love her novels about Liriel too. |
| Hordak |
Posted - 03 Jun 2008 : 01:26:31
Well S and S means this to me...
They are the reason I'm not going to read Elaine cunningham books...
I loved Danilo and Elaith and relly enjoyed parts of book 1 and 2 But I really hated Arilyn and her moonblade.
And frankly there were too many times I went "Ahh come on!" (mostly regarding Arilyn and her Moonblade)
As I recall she isn't in Elfsong that much, and that's the one I liked the most.
I Read the first three so I'd say I have given them a chance... but alas
I got more annoyd then entertained.
Thought I'd ad a second opinion. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 04:05:03
So I've had about a month now to digest everything figure out what to say, who to blame, and I'm just at a loss.
Let me start with a bit of personal history. D&D and Forgotten Realms were one of those things that were out of reach. I kind of knew it existed but didn't know anything about it. None of my friends were into D&D and I think the only piece of D&D I ever saw was Dragon magazine in my local library. I got involved with RPGs when I discovered Star Wars RPG by WEG. At the time I was using it as source and reference books.
Eventually I found people to play with. I joined in the middle of their adventure and played for a couple of months. They eventually got bored I guess decided to switch back to D&D. I wasn't sure at first, sat in on a session and it seemed like fun. Got myself the AD&D Revised PHB and started with a human thief. They were playing in their own campaign setting so I didn't need anything except that. I did buy the Complete Thieves Book eventually. :)
Now also around this time computers were getting to be cheaper and more popular. It wasn't the internet boom yet, it was still the dos age and Windows 95 wasn't something in the mainstream yet. I have to say one of the first ten games I got was Menzoberrazan.
I didn't know it, heck my mom who bought it for me, had no idea it was related to D&D. When I got into the instructions and started reading them during the installation I realized it was a D&D gaming, but I didn't know it was part of a setting. Now if you played Menzo, you might remember it had an advertisement in the beginning of the game. If you don't, it was "Based on RA Salvatore's best selling novel, The Legacy." So later I asked for The Legacy. I probably only read a chapter of it but didn't go beyond that. Reading wasn't my thing.
Some more time went by and I continued to play D&D with them and started reading as much as I did everything else. It was then that they decided to switch to Forgotten Realms and make new characters. Now that rang a bell but as the newbie in the group I really didn't know anything. One of my friends got me the Icewind Dale trilogy and it was just downhill from there. I read the whole trilogy, read Dark elf, and then gave Drizzt a break. (We were also playing in The North so they were probably the best novels to read.)
I don't remember if it was here or Wizards.com but eventually I needed to know what to read next and the Elminster books, Avatar trilogy, or Elfshadow were the suggestions. I went with the Avatar books because by now I knew more about the setting. After that I went with the Elminster books because well.. you know who runs around in the Avatar books doing everything.
After all this reading though I had a few decisions to make, Elfshadow or some of the other trilogies. I don't think Song & Swords was compiled yet into a series, I think it was still baring the Harper series numbers on it. So I read Elfshadow and I remember feeling changed after I finished reading it. I know I joke about being a fanboy, but Arilyn changed the way I looked at heroines. In a way, my attitude towards female characters and heroes grew up (matured) because of Elfshadow.
Before Icewind Dale I'd read Conan, so I'd met Belit. I was familiar Howard's Red Sonya.. but tainted by having seen the terrible movie first. But unlike Belit and Sonya, Arilyn really had an impact on me.
So if you ask me, how much does Song & Swords mean to me, I'd answer it means a lot to me. Elfshadow is one of the books that will always have a place on my shelf because it's one of the books that was part of me growing up... if that makes any sense.
I'm really sad that Reclamation got canceled. 2007 was a train wreck for all my hobbies and finding out about Reclamation was one of the highlights. I had planned on making Reclamation my last or second to last Realms novel (depending on what RA Salvatore does.) Now, well, now I don't know how I'll end my Realms reading. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 21:19:54
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
My major objection to the Starlight and Shadows Lockwood cover can be boiled down to simply this: in none of them does Liriel look remotely alike. Liriel Baenre the facedancer?
I liked those covers, but you're right about Liriel. |
| Danny Glick |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 02:56:41
ELFSONG will always hold a place among my top 5 Realms novels (barring some freaking awesome tomes being written over the next few years). Danilo proved to be much more than a Gio Wyverspur clone and all of Elaine's works will always be celebrated amongst any true FR fans. |
| Karzak |
Posted - 24 May 2008 : 10:54:30
My major objection to the Starlight and Shadows Lockwood cover can be boiled down to simply this: in none of them does Liriel look remotely alike. Liriel Baenre the facedancer? |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 19:51:10
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Having seen the original cover - yeah, pretty darn flummoxed actually. It's not as bad as the original for Tangled Webs, but not by much.
Prefer the original there too, I even bought a second copy to get the old cover.. I don't like Lockwood. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 14:47:18
Indeed. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 10:40:12
A little surprised, but to each their own tastes |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 07:30:12
Having seen the original cover - yeah, pretty darn flummoxed actually. It's not as bad as the original for Tangled Webs, but not by much. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 06:51:23
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I just want to say that this cover to Elfsong http://www.elainecunningham.com/Elfsong_cover.jpg
is one of my favorite novel cover arts there is. I can almost hear the music coming from Danilo's harp and feel the calmness of the crackling fire.
Is there anyone here that's really surprised if I say that I preferred the original cover? |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 15:45:58
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Has anyone ever puzzled out who that disembodied face in the dark is? 'Cause it sure as hell ain't Elaith.
I have no clue either.
Are we talking about the dude with glitzy sword? Sword withstanding, I thought he was the human mercenary who befriends Morgalla.
Or is there another disembodied face that I'm missing.  |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 15:32:13
These books are among the best of the realms.. And i love them because there is the class of bard which is my favorite (although mixed with barbaric-fighting elements like skald warrior)... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 15:29:01
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Has anyone ever puzzled out who that disembodied face in the dark is? 'Cause it sure as hell ain't Elaith.
I have no clue either. |
| Karzak |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 15:14:39
Has anyone ever puzzled out who that disembodied face in the dark is? 'Cause it sure as hell ain't Elaith. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 13:28:55
I just want to say that this cover to Elfsong http://www.elainecunningham.com/Elfsong_cover.jpg
is one of my favorite novel cover arts there is. I can almost hear the music coming from Danilo's harp and feel the calmness of the crackling fire. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 05:17:49
Charles: Thanks for starting this thread. :)
One of the Realms' finest attributes remains how it breaks stereotypes of the fantasy genre. RAS started down that path with Drizzt, who, unfortunately, *became* the stereotype (think OotS' Tzzird?).
Elfshadow was my first non-RAS FR novel, and, in my experience, it saved the Realms from becoming passé--and secured my Realms-loyalty. It afforded sophisticated characters, gripping plot twists, intellectual humor, and zero pedantry (think Drizzt's obsessive-compulsive philosophizing thru journaling). My experience of Realms fictions made an evolutionary leap, and further fantasy stereotypes fell in novel after novel.
I admit to despising Danilo at first. I percieved him as the Blackstaff's lackey, and I had major Chosen-fatigue from their cameo over-exposure.
Yet Dan evolved past that role, especially in Thornhold, and won my sincere admiration in Elfsong. (I read the 3rd before 2nd book due to issues with Danilo). Elminster's Jest forced me to further reassess him, and his heroics and humor now had me in stitches. Ultimately, Dan became my fave of the series' protagonists, a hero whose arsenal utilizes stereotypes as weapons.
Elaine leavened into the sophisticated plots and realistic character development endearingly comical supporting casts: Morgalla, Wyn, Ebenezer, Leafblower, Jill, the alchemist, the duerger who attempt to betray Bronwyn, the gnome with Shopscat. I laughed to the point of tears at these characters!
I would have found my home in Greyhawk if not for these novels.
Thank you, Elaine.
May your muse lead you to stories needing telling, wherever they may be!  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 20:54:04
quote:
Originally posted by Orn
This is perhapse because I prefer well described characters and setting over well described battles.
Many people do. |
| Orn |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 19:16:27
I havn't read this series, but I mean to this summer. I've only been reading Forgotten Realms for about 3 years, and have much to catch up on. I started with R.A Salvatore novels, but have branched out into other areas of the realms. Having read a few dozen Forgotten Realms books now, I've found Cormyr: A Novel (By Ed Greenwood), and Evermeet (By Elaine Cunningham) the best. This is perhapse because I prefer well described characters and setting over well described battles. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 08:23:23
I like the series, especially the first two volumes. They would both go in my top ten list. Other than that I must admit that they haven't exactly had a life changing influence on me.
They did help me visualize Waterdeep though. |
| Jodes_Quenthal |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 04:49:32
I know Elaine explained pretty thoroughly her reasoning for not submitting it for publication. I completely respect her decision, but I can't help but hope that sometime down the road Elaine will have a change of inspiration and finally finish it in a way that suits her. I know how hard it is to write a book because I've tried and failed three times. Elaine, who has earned much acclaim and is a large reason why the Realms remain popular today, knows the process of how to write a good book and surely would have sent it in concluded if it met her standards. She should know that us fans stand behind her decision and will continue to support her regardless of the book being published or not. I just hope the best for her and will continue to support her work. Still 2 years, 5 years, 10 years down the road if Reclamation suddenly became a reality and was published I would buy it in a heartbeat. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 04:07:00
darkcrow, in case you haven't already, I suggest you read through this scroll. It explains the entire Reclamation issue in Elaine's own words.
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| darkcrow |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 03:18:58
This is the first I heard of Reclamation being canceled!!! Today I just finished Dream Spheres. I was all ready for that book. I think I'm going to cry. Maybe I'm having a bad dream, I mean I seen the cover art. It was wonderful. I love those books. Danilo and Arylin are some of my closest friends. Can someone tell me why Beshaba has struck this fatal blow upon me! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 02:01:53
Elaine's "Songs & Songs" means a great deal to me. Elfshadow was among the first few FR novels that I consider to have provided the reader with a worthwhile snapshot of the fascinating lands, curious characters, and subtle intrigues that give the Realms such vibrancy. There's a reason I often recommend this book to both friends and posters online who are looking for new FR books to read, or who are getting into Realms fiction for the very first time.
Plus, Elfshadow introduced me to someone who would very quickly become not only a much loved character, but one among a few deeply held favorites, namely: Danilo Thann. I was utterly entranced by Thann's character, his whimsy, his relationships with others, and his intense showmanship. And the fact that he loved music, history, and curious tidbits of lore helped me to connect with him on a level that I have yet to experience with any other Realms character except, perhaps, for Khelben [but that's a story for another time].
After I finished Elfshadow, I was keen for both more Danilo and more Elaine-crafted fiction. So when I first heard that Elfsong was soon to be published, I immediately hit all the local bookstores here and attempted to find one that would secure a pre-order for me. The waiting was both a curse and a blessing:- a curse because of the time involved, and a blessing because it provided me with yet another opportunity to re-read Elfshadow. And when the day finally came, and I brought Elfsong home, I walked into my room, sat down, locked the door behind me, removed my now well-worn copy of Elfshadow, and placed it alongside Elfsong. From that moment, until mid-morning the following day, I did nothing but read through both books -- one after the other.
And I'm proud to say that this is a tradition I've long maintained after each successive "Songs & Swords" release. In fact, I was already preparing myself for a marathon re-reading of each of the previous five books of the series when I first heard Elaine talk about Reclamation. Unfortunately, since the book itself no longer seems likely to see the light of publication, it still doesn't mean I can't lock myself away from the world once again for one full weekend and enjoy what I consider to be my favorite 'series' of FR novels.
Elaine, my deepest thanks to you. Thank you, for both your time and your devotion to the Realms. And know that, as soon as my little Narnra is old enough, and comes to me asking:- "Father, which Realms novels should I start reading first?", Elshadow will be among the top three that I pull down from my shelf. I can think of no better tribute to you and your work, than to have the opportunity to share it with my own daughter. And for that, I thank you again, because that's how much "Songs & Swords" means to me. |
| scererar |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 01:37:21
They are among my favorites and I obtained them as the Harper series was being published. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 21:32:53
I got Elfshadow for Christmas the year it was first published. I finished it that night. It was the first Realms novel that I read in its entirety on the day I got it. There are very few novels I can say that about in general, and I think it may be the only Realms novel I did that with.
The whole series is, for me, one of the best series we've had for the Realms. I rank it next to the Finder's Stone trilogy, and no series is more highly ranked than those two. Both series are among the very few I recommend to any newcomer to the Realms. In fact, I made a point of getting those books for my brother-in-law, so that he'd have a greater familiarity with the setting. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 20:47:57
The S&S series definitely helped shape what the Realms means to me (and what it should "feel" like), as I read those books early on, when I was a lot more impressionable as a Realms fan.
I think my Realms is all the better for it, too. Heck, perhaps I'm all the better for it. I don't have too much else to say, except that I think this is a nice tribute thread. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 20:06:53
S & S means the world to me as well. They are the home to some of my favorite characters of all time, FR or not.
Bronwyn - Favorite Realms character
Dan - Top 5 FR Character
Arilyn - Favorite Elf with a moonblade (Sorry Serpent!)
Elaine's novels are surely among the crown jewels of FR literature!
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