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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Thelonius Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 20:41:11
Maybe I am mistaken but I wanted to know somethings about Finder Wyvernspur. First I think he aquired the portfolio of Moander, in wich ways does he use it? I mean, I can't imagine Finder wyvernspur as a god with Moander's portfolio. And second, His name is Finder, Mentor, or both? If both are correct, why this name dancing?
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Posted - 26 Sep 2005 : 20:13:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

Does it stand for something or just some lingo/slang that I have never heard?



The Christian church. It's a term they use to decide what is "official" church docturine but gamers have used it for what is official tsr/wotc material. :) Or what is official material from a different company that puts out material for thier settings.



The religious roots of the word have led me not to use the word "canon" anymore. Not for any spiritual reason, but because I always try to maintain a certain perspective on life.

The lore we are talking about is great fun, and I can be passionate about it, but it comes from novels and gamebooks written by human beings (who are just as fallible as any of us), not Heaven-sent holy writings about The Great Purpose of Life. I've learned over the years (from my experience and from the advice of others) that when you adhere to what's "official" too slavishly, you might, well, stop having fun. And frankly, there are more important things in life (the death of a parent really puts things into perspective). This isn't a "religion", at least not for me.
Beezy Posted - 24 Sep 2005 : 05:50:10
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Kajehase Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 14:50:43
And one thing I forgot - If Ed says something it's canon until stated otherwise in an official FR-product (I guess the articles on the WotC website should be included in "the stuff that's canon").
Kuje Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 06:04:16
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

Does it stand for something or just some lingo/slang that I have never heard?



The Christian church. It's a term they use to decide what is "official" church docturine but gamers have used it for what is official tsr/wotc material. :) Or what is official material from a different company that puts out material for thier settings.
Beezy Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 05:53:10
Does it stand for something or just some lingo/slang that I have never heard?
Kajehase Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 05:49:17
Canon = Stated in a novel or game supplement published by TSR/WotC as opposed to something from someone's home campaign or a story written by a fan (fanfic).
Beezy Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 05:45:50
I am new to the forums and I have a question. What is canon? For example, "It's fanfic because Finder hasn't been killed in official canon." Sorry for my newbie question, thanks in advance though.
Thelonius Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 20:56:07
It will do less favour to help about the great ego problem Finder has i am afraid....
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 20:28:33
Really, there isn't much more lore on Finder beyond those novels and his mentions in Powers & Pantheons (2E) and Faiths & Pantheons (3E).

However, Ed did offer some lore on the God of Reckless Fools:

quote:
Hi, Foxhelm. Let’s begin with Finder Wyvernspur.
First of all, I’ll be very surprised if anything on Finder appears in the forthcoming Waterdeep sourcebook. There just isn’t room in its pages to delve into even half the details one would want to about the city.
Waterdeep’s chapel to Finder is largely unknown to most Waterdhavians. They’ve “heard of it,” but know little of where it is, what happens there, and why they should care.
Unless, that is, they’re struggling artists, sculptors, musicians, and especially composers (mainly young aspirers, but also older, accomplished individuals who’ve “lost the fire,” becoming burnt-out or bored). Such folk come to the chapel seeking inspiration. They pray in solitude, sometimes meditating over their works of art or looking at offerings (other works of art, or in some cases ‘touchspells’ crafted by traveling priests of Finder: these are small, delicate, spiderweb-like assemblies of apparently-scrap twigs, wire, scraps of metal, and humna hair, that when touched activate a cantrip cast upon them, akin to “ghost pipes,” that ‘plays’ a brief tune or snatch of song) left in the temple by other worshippers. Some even try to compose or craft new works of art before the altar, while praying or holding vigil, or sleep there, hoping for visions.
Many claim to have received such, or more often heard and seen nothing, but at some moment soon thereafter have suddenly been seized with inspiration (a trigger such as a particular smell, taste, or sound brings to mind a vision of the chapel, and then creative fire is ipon them and they devise a new lyric, tune, scene to draw, design, or whatever.
There’s no formal relationship with Waterdeep’s established bards or the college, but word is spreading of the chapel’s powers, and curiosity is luring many “creatives” to come and see. It’s certainly become a must-seek stop for traveling minstrels who come to Waterdeep. The Lords of Waterdeep (or more accurately, the Palace officials) have no quarrel with the chapel at all, as it seems both ‘untroublesome’ and possibly beneficial to new business ventures, increased prosperity, and happiness for some citizens. Its worshippers are right now few and disorganized, not an organized presence that seeks to influence governing decisions or demand changes in city customs, conditions, or laws, so they largely don’t think about it (amid all their daily worries and loud-voiced citizen-headaches).
In Waterdeep, at least, almost four in five worshippers of Finder are human, and almost one in five are half-elves, but yes, I’d say there’d be more saurials as one goes out into the wilderlands and approaches the Moonsea area, and certainly tieflings, other planetouched, and all sorts of other creatures would be attracted to the faith (as would anyone agitating for change in creative processes, even at the craft-guild level). It’s always important to remember that the vast majority of folk in Faerűn don’t “turn from one god to another” so much as they add a new god to the selection of deities they worship most often; only priests (and monks, and paladins, and persons filling other church-related roles), fanatics, and the very young and eager tend to focus on just one god.

I’d say that even fewer folk in Cormyr are familiar with what Finder the god stands for, and his worship in the Forest Kingdoms will be at a few hidden, private shrines (the only well-appointed ones being private upper-room chapels of wealthy nobles who have artistic ambitions). Most ‘avergae Cormyreans’ would scoff when told ‘one of their own’ has ascended to godhood - - especially those who had dealings with the mortal and very arrogant Finder himself (“Didn’t strike me as one who’d ascend to mighty power and stride the sky, like - - no, sir!”).
The Wyvernspurs, of course, know better, but Giogi and Cat are special people, and I’ll leave all comment on them to my dear friends Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak-Grubb, their creators. My opinion would be that Giogi is impressed but a little bewildered at what happened to Finder (think Hugh Lawrie as Bertie Wooster, blinking in pleased astonishment after Stephen Fry’s Jeeves has saved the day once more).
In short, it’s too early to say how popular Finder’s faith will become. It has the character of a belief that could become very popular if calamities or decadence sour many folk of Faerűn on the faiths they cling most strongly to right now - - but that could quickly be marred if Finder does something seen as arrogant or foolish, or a Finder Wyvernspur priesthood grows too strong and too authoritarian.
Talanfir Swiftfeet Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 19:18:08
So what IS the latest on Finder? Is there something more new than Faiths and Pantheons?
Kuje Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 19:12:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet

I'm not sure if this is true, but I read from www.toril.info that Finder is dead and there is someone called Bruce Wyvernspur in his place. I'm in shock. please someone tell me that this is just a fanfic or something.



It's fanfic because Finder hasn't been killed in official canon.



And it's not the first time I've seen non-canon lore coming from that site...



Aye? I tend to not pay attention to that site. I don't like it's layout. :)
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 19:09:46
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet

I'm not sure if this is true, but I read from www.toril.info that Finder is dead and there is someone called Bruce Wyvernspur in his place. I'm in shock. please someone tell me that this is just a fanfic or something.



It's fanfic because Finder hasn't been killed in official canon.



And it's not the first time I've seen non-canon lore coming from that site...
Talanfir Swiftfeet Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 18:59:55
thank you Kuje. Now I can sleep at night knowing that God of Reckless Fools looks over me (he is a good friend of Brandobaris).
Kuje Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 18:54:25
quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet

I'm not sure if this is true, but I read from www.toril.info that Finder is dead and there is someone called Bruce Wyvernspur in his place. I'm in shock. please someone tell me that this is just a fanfic or something.



It's fanfic because Finder hasn't been killed in official canon.
Thelonius Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 18:34:12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo


I have a soft spot for Finder and have enjoyed everything I have read about him. He was really opened up to me in Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck, which I heartily recommend.





I'll second this recommendation. Some of the stuff Finder does is great (particular the song he gave Ilsenine! ), and you do get a much better feel for him in those books.



If the Master Moderator says so...
Talanfir Swiftfeet Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 18:32:43
I'm not sure if this is true, but I read from www.toril.info that Finder is dead and there is someone called Bruce Wyvernspur in his place. I'm in shock. please someone tell me that this is just a fanfic or something.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 14:35:55
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius

So someone who gets a godhood can twist it to his own conception of it? Interesting...



Yup. As I mentioned earlier, Kelemvor did the same thing.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 14:34:56
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo


I have a soft spot for Finder and have enjoyed everything I have read about him. He was really opened up to me in Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck, which I heartily recommend.





I'll second this recommendation. Some of the stuff Finder does is great (particular the song he gave Ilsenine! ), and you do get a much better feel for him in those books.
Thelonius Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 10:35:07
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

And it didn't help that Finder had an enormous ego to go along with that godhood. No wonder he found some way to spin the crappy hand he was dealt!

C-Fb




The great ego of Finder really made me mad while reading.... So someone who gets a godhood can twist it to his own conception of it? Interesting...
Alaundo Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 10:33:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon

Not a bad word about the Great One...ahem *coughs*

It´s actually pretty well explained in 2E "Powers & Pantheons".
And that subtitle as the "God of Reckless Fools" is pure gold *winks*



Well met

Quite

I have a soft spot for Finder and have enjoyed everything I have read about him. He was really opened up to me in Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck, which I heartily recommend.

Dart Ambermoon Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 01:15:21
Not a bad word about the Great One...ahem *coughs*

It´s actually pretty well explained in 2E "Powers & Pantheons".
And that subtitle as the "God of Reckless Fools" is pure gold *winks*
Crennen FaerieBane Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 23:11:41
And it didn't help that Finder had an enormous ego to go along with that godhood. No wonder he found some way to spin the crappy hand he was dealt!

C-Fb
Wooly Rupert Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 23:00:28
He's known as the Nameless Bard or as Finder Wyvernspur.

As for rot, he basically decided to put a positive spin on it: he spun it as an aspect of the artistic cycle, a stage from which new growth is possible.

It's kinda like the way Kelemvor stepped away from the "Ooh, death is scary!" version of Death, to "Hey, it's going to happen to each of us. It's natural. Why fight it?"
Crennen FaerieBane Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 22:20:09
Well, remember - for a long time Finder Wyvernspur was the Nameless Bard, cast out for crimes against humanities by the Harpers. I think he twisted the portfolio of rot to generally one of renewal.

C-Fb
TylerXKJ Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 22:16:23
I' m pretty sure his proper name is Finder Wyverspur. He somehow managed to twist the portfolio of rot into a more positive way. The "end of stagnation" is what he tries to pass it off as. I don't know about the name switches.

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