| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 01:08:02
Since few sessions, a new player joined my current campaign and plays a cleric of Bane. I'm trying to find any reference to official Bane holy days..
Since Bane's return, does the first of Hammer is celebrated in some kind of way? |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| khorne |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 13:34:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
While the Pre Time of Trouble Church of Bane was more fragmented and a High Priest could run his own show outside of the rest of the Church. I dont think a High priest would be able to get awya with that now.
Faiths and Pantheons makes that pretty clear, which was what I said in the second post.
But I think that a DM's individual interpretation of concepts like tyranny and law make the actual internal structure of Bane's church in the Realms, somewhat blurry... at least in their own home campaigns -- not the official Realms of course.
Bane's church now, at least... post-return, would seem to follow what's been established in the canon material. The consolidation of the church as a whole could be a result of Bane's return... with the various leaders and high priests seeking to create a more solid power base for their god in the hopes that he should never "fall" again. Perhaps some priest leaders hold the belief that the previous clerical fragmentation of their faith was part of the reason why Bane wasn't as strong as he could have been during the Time of Troubles.
If he falls again(which I pray for daily) I hope that someone cuts off his hands(metaphorically) so that he cannot climb back up. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 11:24:51
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
While the Pre Time of Trouble Church of Bane was more fragmented and a High Priest could run his own show outside of the rest of the Church. I dont think a High priest would be able to get awya with that now.
Faiths and Pantheons makes that pretty clear, which was what I said in the second post.
But I think that a DM's individual interpretation of concepts like tyranny and law make the actual internal structure of Bane's church in the Realms, somewhat blurry... at least in their own home campaigns -- not the official Realms of course.
Bane's church now, at least... post-return, would seem to follow what's been established in the canon material. The consolidation of the church as a whole could be a result of Bane's return... with the various leaders and high priests seeking to create a more solid power base for their god in the hopes that he should never "fall" again. Perhaps some priest leaders hold the belief that the previous clerical fragmentation of their faith was part of the reason why Bane wasn't as strong as he could have been during the Time of Troubles.
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 10:21:30
Have to say I disagree Sage
While the Pre Time of Trouble Church of Bane was more fragmented and a High Priest could run his own show outside of the rest of the Church. I dont think a High priest would be able to get awya with that now. I picture the current Church of Bane being very ridged kind of like the Catholic church with Fzoul being the "Pope" of the church of Bane, Fzoul would approve all church leaders and all Dogma and should a cleric of Bane start to go off the rails preaching dogma that Fzoul doesnt support thens its likely said cleric would get a visit from the Church of Banes Inqusitors |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 09:31:36
Quoting myself now...  .
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The High Priest could justify the veneration of success in a particular local battle (that the church was perhaps involved in or maybe instigated) or tyrannical act as the *true* will of Bane -- this would have little to do with the entire faithful of Bane as a whole.
I think that an important point to consider is just how "independent" each church of Bane is in *your* Realms.
Most of the deity books, F&P in particular, seem to suggest that Bane's faith is highly organised, for the most part... and each church follows a strict hierarchy -- perhaps as part of some greater Realms-wide organisation. But you could work around this, and claim that for a church or High Priest to fully realise the concept of the "ultimate tyrant", one must be "independent and above everything" -- except the worship of Bane. Relations between groups hamper the growth of tyranny... forcing one to rely on others rather than becoming master of them.
When I've used Banite clergies in my campaigns in the past, each temple has been run almost like an independent realm with little to no connections to anything outside the temple -- and this includes other Banite temples. If unity between churches is a necessary element for a game, then I would say that it would have to be something that Bane would declare... for churches to work under one organised hierarchy -- it is the will of Bane. This all plays upon the "lawful" aspect of Bane's portfolio... the law of the church and service to Bane is more sacred and holy than the law of the mortal faithful as a whole. Of course, mortal worshippers of Bane understand that their "connection" to Bane is not the same their relations with mortals -- so there's really nothing to hamper their ascent to being the ultimate tyrant by "relying" on him.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 09:12:43
quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
Then again, a strongly Lawful religion like Bane would probably stricly promulgate its (un)holy days rather than simply leaving them to the whims of individual clerics. Of course, this doesn't answer the original question; it just suggests that an answer would make sense.
That's certainly a possibility. However, we don't really have an accurate picture of what Bane's clerical hierarchy is like across the entirety of the Realms.
An individual Banite High Priest may believe that both his temple and clergy are the ultimate example of the Black Tyrant's desires in the mortal world. The High Priest could justify the veneration of success in a particular local battle (that the church was perhaps involved in or maybe instigated) or tyrannical act as the *true* will of Bane -- this would have little to do with the entire faithful of Bane as a whole. Such "holy days" have little relevance elsewhere (unless the effects of the battle or act are far reaching), mostly because they are area-specific.
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| Eremite |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 08:54:58
Then again, a strongly Lawful religion like Bane would probably stricly promulgate its (un)holy days rather than simply leaving them to the whims of individual clerics. Of course, this doesn't answer the original question; it just suggests that an answer would make sense. |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 19:46:59
Thanks for all ideas ! |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 16:06:43
Other suggestions--Crib a page from my book and the churches/shrines of Ilmater. Various pious folk of the faith become saints in that religion; call them Tyranth(i) or some other title (just avoid the others in use like Imperceptor or Tyrrannar) and add the person's name.
Thus, Tyranth Josharl's March could be a tenday long festival for Banites, celebrated around the [insert campaign area here] for commemorating when Josharl, priest of Bane, repelled the attackers who sought to conquer [insert campaign town here]. He and his temple's defense of their lands did not end there; the march was his vengeance as he put to the torch the three villages from whom the uprising came from....
Effectively, Bane's church is going to worship shows of power, starts or ends of war, particularly cruel or nasty acts, etc. The worst excesses of the Spanish Inquisition in many ways seems particularly apt as a model useful for Bane's religion and thus holy days.
Also remember that inter-faith strife is ALWAYS going to be hot in this church. Feel free to look at the Cyricists I put in Amn/Tethyr (Lands of Intrigue) and use them as models for churches of Bane with slightly different foci that would be rivals.
Another suggestion--Spin Doctoring. If Bane's the BMOC among the evil gods, who's going to gainsay his priests if they start claiming a lot more than they should? It's only been 15 or so years since the Time of Troubles, but enough people aren't in the know or at the focal points of activity. Thus, if Bane's faithful chose to start saying Bane alone slew all the gods; Bane chose to fall to test the faith of his worshipers; Bane did all this to show how weak the other gods were, compared to him....and unless you want the business end of the mace, you'll nod and agree with the priest in front of you telling you this...
Last suggestion--Bane's church is NOT going to celebrate every evil act or tyrannical move. It should have strict rules (like the Church on our world does for assessment of miracles) on what qualifies as a holy day for Bane: Blood of more than 100 spilled? Conversion of more than 25 people to the faith? Sacrfices of great value?
Case in point (or at least the last): A slightly mad ruler who slays his own children to keep them from plotting against him would be favored by Bane (provided he didn't weaken his hold over what is ruled, nor eliminate all heirs); a commander who ruthlessly sends major amounts of troops to die merely to prove a point, rather than any tactical logic; ...I was going to try and add another, but truthfully, thinking about this is making me ill.... Hope this helps you sharpen the edges of Bane's religion for your games.
Steven |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 16:03:16
quote:
Originally posted by FreezeChaser
2) The Day when Bane was martyred in the big fight with Torm and the Day when Bane finally returns as a full fledged god.
I don't know about that first part... He picked a fight and was killed for it. Not exactly something to celebrate... |
| FreezeChaser |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 14:24:57
It is widely known that Bane's Clergy have no official holy days, but they are more likely to celebrate:
1)Bane's first true ascension to godhood.
2) The Day when Bane was martyred in the big fight with Torm and the Day when Bane finally returns as a full fledged god.
But Bane's Clergy are said to kick up a big ceremony or rather kick up a big fuss when they find a heretic in their ranks, and there will be a holy ritual at the Black Altar where the heretic is "punished" by Bane. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 06:13:02
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
The clergy and followers of Bane would also celebrate and praise their deity when they commit an act of tyranny. For example, aftering sacking a city in a war.
I can see that.
Such acts would likely feature as singular Banite "holy days" for the individual temples or clergies who participated in them -- they're not recognised by the entire faith of Bane, just those clerics, temples and soldiers who were involved.
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| DDH_101 |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 03:13:24
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Since few sessions, a new player joined my current campaign and plays a cleric of Bane. I'm trying to find any reference to official Bane holy days..
Since Bane's return, does the first of Hammer is celebrated in some kind of way?
I think the only real official holy day for Bane is Bane's resurrection.
The clergy and followers of Bane would also celebrate and praise their deity when they commit an act of tyranny. For example, aftering sacking a city in a war. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 02:25:37
According to Faithes and Avatars there arent any
Holy days are when ever the clergy decide to have one |
| warlockco |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 01:28:40
Faiths and Pantheons from 3E
and
Faiths and Avatars from 2E
would be your best sources. |
