| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 15:20:31
On the board that should not be mentioned and a few other places there has been on ging discussions of how equal Eilistraeen societies are under 3.x Edition. Especially the question of male Clerics/Priests. This has been something I have been interested in and tend to belong to the camp that some can exist.
I found this quote:
Eilistraee's followers usually must hide within the cities of the Spider Queen, but those fortunate to live in a place where their faith can be expressed enjoy a gender-equal society like those of the Vhaeraunian drow, except without the taint of evil, vengeance, and conquest that her family's followers carry with them.
at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/drowsocial which certainly would appear to allow for male Clerics. I am also aware of the 2nd Edition restriction to female only and some relie on this because no 3.x material clearly states that males are allowed now. That there is gender statement at all can justify falling back to 2nd material.
I am also aware that this question has been asked of Ed of Greenwood, one of the unanswered questions. Until such timeoccurs that WotC or Ed makes a more declaratory statment. Both sides have valid points.
That said what would be other aspects of an Eilistraee community.
I would expect that Drow House struture would still be used, that however the House would have equal chance of a Patron or a Matron that succesion would go to the oldest or perhaps the best qualified.
I see such communities based on hunting, music and metal working. With Elven farming and other crafts established as support for the community. Also as much as posible such communities would be multi-racial though odds are Drow would be the majority.
There of course would be defenses as well considering that most others seek to kill them, Lolthians because they are not and others bekieving that they are. To this end most Eilistraeens would be armed or within a guarded location. Sleep poison certainly would be used as part of the defense scheme to try to reduce needless deaths. I would expect those that do not take favour class would tend to selecting more commonly Bard or Ranger then the other classe.
Any way a few thoughts. Also ods are good that each community would many differences because of limited communication between such communities. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 03:56:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
BTW, as someone asked about 'other gods good/non-evil drow can worship'...
Shouldn't the answer be 'any of them, provided they have a good reason and backstory'?
You could do a drow paladin of Torm or monk of Ilmater if you wanted to.
Well in theory certainly any deity can be venerated, just some do not serve as good examples of what elves would venerate. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 01 Oct 2008 : 23:49:00
BTW, as someone asked about 'other gods good/non-evil drow can worship'...
Shouldn't the answer be 'any of them, provided they have a good reason and backstory'?
You could do a drow paladin of Torm or monk of Ilmater if you wanted to. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Oct 2008 : 15:06:41
You're welcome. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 01 Oct 2008 : 00:48:21
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
No, that was Laeral...
Actually it was Dove.
Oops, yeah, you're right. My mistake.
Thanks for the correction. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:37:53
From Ed
quote:
Yes, you heard me right: there now ARE a few males among her church, but to enter it they have all “Danced The Changedance” and spent time as female, just as Mystra caused Elminster to spend time as Elmara - - and for the same reasons: greater understanding and sensitivity of “the life of the other gender.” One cannot truly feel the Divine Dance of Eilistraee PROPERLY except as a female, and so her (still very rare, few, and generally secretive about it) male priests must spend some time as a female (not just for the duration of a ritual, but they must do some everyday living as a female). The most accomplished drow, elf, half-elf, and human male priests seem to feel the need to take female form for some days every few years or so (if they wish to “cleave more fully to the Goddess” and thus rise in levels), and most spend longer and longer times in female form. Not all female priests of the Goddess fully trust the males, and they don’t tend to rise much in the church hierarchy (no matter what character levels they achieve).
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 20:47:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Didn't Mister Greenwood once say that males wanting to serve the Dancing Lady were required to spend some time spell-changed into female drow so as to "broaden their perspectives"?
Yes--although I think he just said they had to become female rather than female drow, specifically. Eilistraee has plenty of non-drow priestesses. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 20:46:39
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
No, that was Laeral...
Actually it was Dove. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 19:24:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Another question, this one a trifle silly: Eilistraeen priestesses sometimes perform sacred dances while skyclad at night in the woods or other lonely places. What happens when local lad(s) learn about this and try to find a place to hide to watch the 'free show'? (I truly think that Ed could write a helleciously comical story about something like this.)
Didn't Mirt happen upon a sacred dance that Qilúe was a part of in Seven Sisters?
No, that was Laeral, and the dancing ladies weren't none too happy about it either. Though that seems to have had more to do with her giving unintentional offense by joining in than just by watching.
Though it was stated in the story that when the dance was finished, the dancers would collapse exhausted and remain that way until dawn -- and be easy targets for any wandering orc or murderous wooodsman who found them. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 19:16:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Another question, this one a trifle silly: Eilistraeen priestesses sometimes perform sacred dances while skyclad at night in the woods or other lonely places. What happens when local lad(s) learn about this and try to find a place to hide to watch the 'free show'? (I truly think that Ed could write a helleciously comical story about something like this.)
Didn't Mirt happen upon a sacred dance that Qilúe was a part of in Seven Sisters? |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 19:09:01
More about male drow and the clergy of Eilistraee:
Didn't Mister Greenwood once say that males wanting to serve the Dancing Lady were required to spend some time spell-changed into female drow so as to "broaden their perspectives"?
Another question, this one a trifle silly: Eilistraeen priestesses sometimes perform sacred dances while skyclad at night in the woods or other lonely places. What happens when local lad(s) learn about this and try to find a place to hide to watch the 'free show'? (I truly think that Ed could write a helleciously comical story about something like this.)
More seriously, would the priestesses have weapons and spells somewhere close by -- or even silent, hidden guardians -- in case vengeful Lolthites, hungry beasts, frightened and armed surface-dwellers, etc., decide to kill some of the "murdering drow"? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 01:04:02
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
One of the Drow city write up that was/is on WotC website (that I can not find now) indicated that there are groups of Eilistraee followers living in the city that do not know of each other. This is how secert Eilistraee communities are.
And now I get the picture of a drow city in which ALL the people worship Eilistraee, but it's all still 'business as usual' (rituals to Lolth, inter-House warfare, etc.) because none of them dare to allow the secret to get out. 
Indeed Drow cities Lolth ruled did have Eilistraee cleric establish a portal in the heart of Lolth's domain.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20021106a
|
| Ardashir |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:44:51
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
One of the Drow city write up that was/is on WotC website (that I can not find now) indicated that there are groups of Eilistraee followers living in the city that do not know of each other. This is how secert Eilistraee communities are.
And now I get the picture of a drow city in which ALL the people worship Eilistraee, but it's all still 'business as usual' (rituals to Lolth, inter-House warfare, etc.) because none of them dare to allow the secret to get out. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 00:17:15
Could be he ate his duaghter, taking her power?
She clearly does not yet appear in FR. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 16:24:41
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord
He just saved his little girl's butt in a sava game (Lady Pertinent book 3)...
He did?
Indeedo. He was a bit late, was he not? I'm still wondering about the crescent moon next the the sun on Arvandor though, as described in that last book. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 15:05:37
quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord
He just saved his little girl's butt in a sava game (Lady Pertinent book 3)...
He did? |
| RedneckBadgerLord |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 12:08:52
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I am not saying that they would over look him, just that they remember what he did to them. I do not see that any Priest of Corellon would achieve the same respect as a Cleric of Eilistraee. Some honor would be given to him, in my opinion, however the betrayer of the good Drow can not recieve the same honor and respect as one that seeks to reclaim birthright. Nor does Eilistraee followers seek reconciliation with Corellon as I read it, just rather they seek to reclaim the lands they were driven from by using peaceful means. Adjusting to daylight that Corellon has cursed them to have a hard time with (yes in game terms you can burn a feat slot, but that also means you can not take another feat). In some ways clearly the father of elves deserves some respect, but all Drow will also cruse him when on the surface or exposed to bright lights, at least is how I would react and I expect most Drow would. Paise Corellon for you are on the surface and can not see because of his actions. Nay I do not believe any Drow would quickly endrose Corellon for what he did to the parents.
This of course can be a point we can not (and most likely will never)agree on. Corellon has denied all Drow access to High Elven Magic, has not aided the good Drow when attacked by those that followed Lolth, he has abandoned the race and punished all of them for the actions of some portion of them.
I can see aceptance of others of the Seldarine quicker then the leader. As for them not killing out of had, which would be worst for you; 1000 years denied the joys of nature, or a quick death?
I do not know if you have played Drow characters, espcially those that seek to reclaim the surface. Even if you have there certainly can be interpertations, variations based on the limited lore available. Based on my play and my understanding of lore, Seldarine will be honored for being the father of the Dark Maiden, but also fowever cursed for what he did (or allowed to be done) to them.
He just saved his little girl's butt in a sava game (Lady Pertinent book 3) how can you say Corellon doesn't care for his daughter? He would be the first to aid her! |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:49:21
Rewakens this thread as it appears to be the best one to discuss with RevJezt this question asked of Ed.
quote:
What other gods can/do good drow elves turn to?
In part the question was answered, it appears only about 10 ro 12 percent are fully dedicated to the Dark Maiden, the other 10 or so percent clearly will venerate Vhaeraun to some extent (espcially on a spy mission) though Ed indicates one could not venerate both of them equally and well serve either deity. There are some aspects of these two deities that dogma calls for the same thing, Drow living on the surface, giving aid to those in trouble (Though Vhaeraunites are required only to aid followers of Vhaeraun). Mielikki clearly could recive veneration by those hunting and by those Rangers. Allies of Eilistraee clearly could be given worship to some degree of another.
It is hard to picture one giving worship to Lolth and Eilistraee, but perhas a good Drow raising spiders for spider silk might in some small way offer veneration to that depraved Deity. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 23:41:18
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Indirian
Some males , may also have issues with converting to Eilistaree. You know she, being a godess, just a like her mom Lloth, whom most males probably don't like. I know that she is good, but males are going to be suspicious (come one , they are drow) and as such, they might not belivie. Not to mentions that some roles are only opem to women. Males are going to be hesitant, imho.
Well remember all males will not be Drow, but indeed as indicated high ranked Lolthian Drow males might not like a more equal status. I clearly picture that rank would still exist, just that rank will not matter nearly as much. As for trading one female deity for another I do not see that as an issue, most Real World deities are depicted as male figures and there appears little problem with females converting from one belief to another. Yes trust can be an issue, but that applies to anything, trust is earned over time no matter what the issue is. As for gender rolls the only clear statement of class that a male can not take, the Sword Dancer (there is strong support that males still can not be Clerics either) put out by WotC.
Males might be hesitant, but those facing a certain death as oposed to staying around with a few naked Priestess that will protect them, should at least provide fresh blood and posible converts as well. Eilistraee does not require eveyone in the communityworship her, in fact se has provided minor divine aid to those that follow other deities.
From 2nd "Eilistraee sometimes manifests to a worshiper or nonworshiper who honors her with a solitary dance as a silver radiance that transforms the recipient's hair into a mane of silver fire for a month or even permanently."
She looks with favor on good aligned Drow, even if they do not follow her.
"Strangers are your friends. The homeless must be given shelter from
storms, under your own roof if need be. Repay rudeness with kindness.
Repay violence with swift violence, that the fewest may be hurt and
danger fast removed from the land." |
| Prince Indirian |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 23:13:23
Some males , may also have issues with converting to Eilistaree. You know she, being a godess, just a like her mom Lloth, whom most males probably don't like. I know that she is good, but males are going to be suspicious (come one , they are drow) and as such, they might not belivie. Not to mentions that some roles are only opem to women. Males are going to be hesitant, imho. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 16 Dec 2005 : 23:59:28
You make very good points, Kentinal. I was just thinking that the males used as breeding stock (whether forced or chosen) is a fact that many Drow females have come to accept (Lolth dictates, Eilistraeeans get the left overs, per se).
You are right about the converts - being most likely more male that female, but for example, look at Ryld. He never could quite grasp the concept. All males won't switch to Eilistraee just because of the Gender Quality. Think of all the males who have clawed their way up the ranks. A lot to give up just for "equality."
However, I think you are mostly spot on with how the relationships would occur within an Eilistraeean group. There can't be too many choices as we know her followers aren't that numerous. Ah well, poor Drow male who converts! 
C-Fb |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 16 Dec 2005 : 17:16:45
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
True, but not many drow males would be willing to law with an Eilistraeean priestess. I know that Elven society does not require marriage to reproduce - but unless the males are being passed around (very Lolthian), most times the societies are mentioned there is an extreme shortage of men involved.
And where I agree with you about the genetics and mechanics of it all, I just doubt that a society that so abhors Lolthians would go around and practice the same use of males for breeding, but that is just my opinion.
C-Fb
I do not recall any Eilistraee official society provided with a detail breakdown of population.
Sanctuary does have a breakdown, but as far as I recall that is fan base. The cummunity has 13 priestesses, Enigma (male), Knights of Twilight (barely 12 in number, a mixed gender organization). There are others living there some could follow Eilistraee, however it is also posible they could follow one of the other religions that have clerics there. Anyway it would appear these known might be a raito of 3-4 to one female/male so it is posible that other communities might have the same ratio, I however consider this unlikely. Reasons why I believe male to female raito would be more even are based on a few beliefs.
Lolthian patrols are often mostly men, often lead by a Priestress of Lolth and those most likely to engage in battle with Eilistraeens. As Eilistraee says no Drow should die unless Evil the use of sleep poison would render many males sleeping, the Lolth Priestess likely killed (of course this inffers an Eilistraee win). Those taken prisoner would be offered the message and the choice to convert. In a society of equality (or near equality), the danger of returning to their House reporting their leader was killed (reporting failure almost certainly means pain and often a painful death) there would be no incentive for these to want to leave their captures, whom would become their protectors. Oh I am sure that some of the captured males (perhaps even over 50 percent) would have be killed for not being willing to give up evil ways, provides new potential mates. Even if getting one male a month per Priestess (or even .5 per month) the supply of males is large for any community. Of Drow that follow Lolth, those most likely to convert will be males, the least likely females because of the shift in power between the two genders. There also will be males of the human race attracted because of the Exotic (some say Erotic) image a Drow gives. There will be a good supply of males in my opinion.
Now to the concern about using males as breeding stock. Yes it is true that a Lolthian males will be told whom to mate with and when. In an Eilistraee society I consider it much more likely that a male would get to choose wom to mate with as long as the female was willing, the reverse also being true of course (no females will order a male to mate with them). Thus I picture something along the line of a male trying to decide of a few (or at least two) whom he wants to be with and speaking such concern, being told that there is no need to choose. That in many ways it might look like a plural marriage or a sexual free for all to outsiders eyes. That many of both males and females will have more then one mate at a time, it of course will depend on the individuals but free choice and blessings being given to lovers and acts of love makes this very posible. As it is in general FR is not sexually represted as to things like a crime to have an affair and deity that supports acts of love certainly would be even less condemning of having many lovers.
Of course I would expect there would be pairings for some as a permerment relationship as a couple, however I could even see these couples accepting something like "If you are not with the one you love, love the one you are with."
Each society of course can develpe their own rules and not all might follow the concept I picture. I just consider it more likely based on the dogma that rather then force a male or female to stay with one when there is desire, at least from time to time, to also be with another. Freedom to choose, though there is the restaint of not making others uncomfortable. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 16 Dec 2005 : 14:52:38
True, but not many drow males would be willing to law with an Eilistraeean priestess. I know that Elven society does not require marriage to reproduce - but unless the males are being passed around (very Lolthian), most times the societies are mentioned there is an extreme shortage of men involved.
And where I agree with you about the genetics and mechanics of it all, I just doubt that a society that so abhors Lolthians would go around and practice the same use of males for breeding, but that is just my opinion.
C-Fb |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 10:02:28
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
You also have to remember, though, that the majority of Drow in Eilistraee's faithful are females. That means that the population might not grow as the numbers are not very balanced.
C-Fb
Of this I am not sure it is true, many well known of Eilistraee followers are indeed female of which some have consorts (or at least affairs). Even if it was true, Elven society does not require or expect marriage before having a child. Also last time I checked only females give birth to children. In a few generations (inferring equal or near equal ratio of male to female birth rate) the male to female ratio would become near equal in a few generations. I once did a calculation of low female to male civilization and in 5 generations the genders reached near parity ratio. It is harder to achieve parity with too few females then too many. A female can only be pregnent from one male, a male can get many females pregnent at about the same time. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 00:54:49
You also have to remember, though, that the majority of Drow in Eilistraee's faithful are females. That means that the population might not grow as the numbers are not very balanced.
C-Fb |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 21:55:34
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Indirian
One thing to remember is that Eilistarreans lack the infighting the spiderkissers have. So their societies would grow larger percentage wise and more elves would survive to their adulthood.
I have put forward this argument as well. That in time based on society structure, the children are not killed or forced to kill each others, that the percentage indeed can grow of the overall Drow population. Perhaps growth at a faster rate then Vhaeraunites (which do not kill thier own, but very more likely to kill followers of other deities then trying to convert). The Eilistraee communities will grow in size quicker because of converts and children. But there is also this.quote:
Now it just happens that many people are suspicious of the Eilistarreans, so they still have enemies. However these are outside enemies and not inside like in regular drow socities (who also has outside enemies).
No one trusts a Drow not only are surfacers in general a fow, followers of Lolth are tasked with killing these followers. There are reports of many Eilstraee communities being short lived. The fact that Eilistraee communities tend to be small the disappearance of a few will not even be noticed and there are many that seek to wipe them out. These might balance or even result in atrition exceeding birth rate. There is no official answer as to matters like this. An Eilistraee follower to syrvive must offer an open hand of aid to most, but needs a very quick hand to defense in case the aid is offered to someone seeking to kill them.quote:
Assuming that their societies are on the surface off course.
There was underdark community that Qilué Veladorn grew up in.
"Buiyrandyn: Buiyrandyn, a tiny drow settlement, was famous for its rejection of Lolth and the other evil drow deities. Mind flayers destroyed it centuries ago, and it has since been inhabited by other monsters. Few know it, but Buiyrandyn was the birthplace of Qilue Veladorn, one of the Seven Sisters. "
Qilué and a few playmates were called by Eilistraee to take over what is now known as the Promenade, which is in the undermountain and might still be considered the underdark.
|
| Prince Indirian |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 20:11:31
One thing to remember is that Eilistarreans lack the infighting the spiderkissers have. So their societies would grow larger percentage wise and more elves would survive to their adulthood.
Now it just happens that many people are suspicious of the Eilistarreans, so they still have enemies. However these are outside enemies and not inside like in regular drow socities (who also has outside enemies).
Assuming that their societies are on the surface off course. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 01:20:18
From Ask Ed
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Heya,
I have yet another series of questions I was pondering the other day...
How do drow learn about Eilistraee, if such knowledge is suppressed in drow cities/comminities (especially ones dedicated to Lolth and/or Vhaeraun)?
There are many followers living in underdark cities, the word is spread carefully to likely recuits to the faith. Darksong Knights and other followers often inflirate as well. Many will of course learn the message when combat is resolved and the Eilistraeens win. As they try to take prisoners killing only clear evil beings. No Drow shall die unless doing evil, all Drow encountered are to be told the message. quote:
Do those who are so inclined towards good come to some kind of deep inner understanding of Her? Or does it actually take the physical act of leaving their homes and coming to the surface and finding an Eilistraeean to talk to? Do Eilistraeeans infiltrate drow cities to try to win who they can for the faith?
In part this is already answered, Short of using Favored Soul class, much like what Sorcerrors are for arcane magic, they do not find Eilistraee as a result of inner reflection. Most that convert or follow (some clearly bor to the faith of parent) need to meet a follower of Eilistraee before considering that this is an option.
quote:
How do the numbers stack: how many Eilistraeeans vs Vhaeraunites? Is Eilistraee a goddess to only a few hundred drow? If so, how does She survive if faith determines power?
I have asked for numbers, however no census was taken, however it is clear that many Thousands, perhaps even millions that follow Lady Silverhair. The Promanade in itself must contain at least 100 followers. There are reports of 60 Drow in Silverymoon.
"No, there aren’t lots of drow worshippers of Eilistraee OPENLY wandering the streets of Silverymoon, but there ARE probably sixty or more dwelling in the city in disguise, and many more in the lands around Silverymoon and around Everlund " THO, quoting ED 22 Dec 2004.quote:
And how do male Eilistraeeans deal with the idea that only females can be priests/clergy, or has this changed with 3rd Edition? (I have asked this question before and had no response so far, but it's kind of linked to my questions about the numbers of Eilistraeeans and how drow come to learn and then convert to her worship.)
Oh this is a fun debate, there was one obsurce 3.X FR product that referred to a male Cleric being killed (the he might have been a typo of she). There is no clear compelling source that now allows male Priests and most still believe they are not permitted at all.
As for male Drows they still likely perfer Wizard and if converted from Lolth used to female only Clergy I do not think many will complain much of having equal or perhaps near equal status. |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 09:18:53
I am sure there is plenty of room for interpretation, yes.
Oh, it was a harsh punishment, and I don't really understand why the Descent was forced on all dark elves in truth. The guilty ones, however, plainly did not deserve a swift death. And in any case, such a punishment would have been unsubtle for the elves or their gods. I very much like Eilistraee and the concept of redemption being available to the Drow. The Descent may have been unjust, but is nature just? Justice is a supple concept, at best, and even gods can err.
And no, I do not play Drow. I remember when they made their first appearance in an AD&D module (Descent into the Depth of the Earth? I forget which), and for a long time they were reserved strictly as DM-run antagonists, for parties of fairly high level. That is to say, I was weaned on a game system where Drow were monsters and not considered suitable as a Player Character race. They were also so rarely seen as to be legendary. To this day, I do not allow players in my campaign to run Drow (or half-drow) characters. Followers of Eilistraee have appered in my campaign as a plot twist, where they stopped a Vhaeraunite band from violating an ancient shrine, ill-defended by wild elves. But they were NPCs.
I admit freely to a violent aversion to Drow, only hightened for my distrust and dislike of things that are trendy. In all my years playing in the World of Darkness setting, for instance, I never, ever played a vampire, and refused to spend my money on any books for that game. I'm perverse like that. I do like a good debate, however. I hope I haven't crossed the line here into being offensive or needlessly contrary. I am simply trying to provide a different point of view. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 04:19:30
I am not saying that they would over look him, just that they remember what he did to them. I do not see that any Priest of Corellon would achieve the same respect as a Cleric of Eilistraee. Some honor would be given to him, in my opinion, however the betrayer of the good Drow can not recieve the same honor and respect as one that seeks to reclaim birthright. Nor does Eilistraee followers seek reconciliation with Corellon as I read it, just rather they seek to reclaim the lands they were driven from by using peaceful means. Adjusting to daylight that Corellon has cursed them to have a hard time with (yes in game terms you can burn a feat slot, but that also means you can not take another feat). In some ways clearly the father of elves deserves some respect, but all Drow will also cruse him when on the surface or exposed to bright lights, at least is how I would react and I expect most Drow would. Paise Corellon for you are on the surface and can not see because of his actions. Nay I do not believe any Drow would quickly endrose Corellon for what he did to the parents.
This of course can be a point we can not (and most likely will never)agree on. Corellon has denied all Drow access to High Elven Magic, has not aided the good Drow when attacked by those that followed Lolth, he has abandoned the race and punished all of them for the actions of some portion of them.
I can see aceptance of others of the Seldarine quicker then the leader. As for them not killing out of had, which would be worst for you; 1000 years denied the joys of nature, or a quick death?
I do not know if you have played Drow characters, espcially those that seek to reclaim the surface. Even if you have there certainly can be interpertations, variations based on the limited lore available. Based on my play and my understanding of lore, Seldarine will be honored for being the father of the Dark Maiden, but also fowever cursed for what he did (or allowed to be done) to them. |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 22:58:28
And the other roles suggested for Eilistraeean males? You don't mention those.
The dark elves who did not revere Llolth before the descent nonetheless failed to oppose those who did. Neither did the Seldarine destroy the dark elves out of hand. The exiled them to the Underdark... and allowed Eilistraee to hold the portfolio of their path to redemption. A harsh judgement, certainly. But not a final one, without hope of parole.
"Priests of Corellon are expected to be leaders of Elven communities in many ways." But not in all things. Leadership is not an absolute. Zeus was revered in Athens, but it was still His daughter's city. Did the priests of Zeus at Olympia tell the Athenians they were worshipping the wrong god? Neither did priests of Zeus in Athens, even though he was the paramount diety of the Hellenic Pantheon. I think the analogy holds.
Sure, the haughty Sun Elves who rule the faith of Corellon on Evermeet disdain dark elves of all sorts. They also look down on everyone else. But that should not be taken as the prejudice of Corellon Larethian, or his priesthood amongst other elven nations and clans.
Amongst other things, Corellon represents the core qualities of elvendom - qualities which Eilistraee encourages her followers to embrace. The priesthood of Corellon has an interest in seeing Eilistraee succeed. They will stand out of the way of her priestesses and allow them to do their work, which is to the benefit of all elvenkind.
A priesthood which seeks the reconciliation of the dark elves with the rest of the race cannot overlook the deity who represents that race. In matters of the particular culture of their subrace, they will still hold to the Eilistraeean ideal in forging their particular place in the larger elven community of Faerun. |
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