| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TwoBit |
Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 22:44:38
I beg your pardon folk, but I wish to find a list of all R.A. Salvators books pertaining to Drizzt Do'Urden (in order starting with his birth in Homeland). I have read many of the series but forgot what book I last read (somewhere aroung Sea of Swords). I am looking to buy what I don't have in paperback, just for reading. I have all the way up to Legacy but have read my cousins which goes way beyond that. I have also read the Caderly series which my cousin also owns.
Thank You,
TwoBit |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 06:50:03
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Whee! Mission accomplished.
And here all those stupid poets think that everyone wishes to be loved. Some merely wish to frighten.  |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 06:41:23
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Oh of course I wasn't referring to you, Wooly. I was referring to some of the rather, shall we say "less than pleasant" reviewers of realms fiction out there. I would have said present company excluded, but Winterfox hadn't chimed in yet, and I would not want her to think I was picking on or at her.
Mostly because she frightens me. 
Whee! Mission accomplished. |
| TwoBit |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 21:00:45
Thank you again tethtoril, I didn't want to say anything for my lack of knowledge in the FR. To the rest of you I tried to follow as much as possible but, much of this was over my head or rather beyond my knowledge.
Thank you for the discussion though,
Twobit |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 15:38:25
Agreed, noble Tethtoril. My apologies for contributing to the general drift. My current recommendations (being as TwoBit knows Bob’s books) would be these, in order of suitability AS INTRODUCTIONS:
1. Spellfire (Ed)
2. Elfshadow (Elaine)
3. The Halls of Stormweather (lots o’ folks)
4. Cormyr: A Novel (Ed and Jeff)
5. Elminster: The Making Of A Mage (Ed)
6. Stormlight (Ed)
7. Azure Bonds (Keff and Kate)
8. The Simbul’s Gift (Lynn Abbey)
9. The Yellow Silk (Don Bassingthwaite)
10. The Ring of Winter (Jim Lowder)
I’m just starting the recent crop (Thomas Reid’s first, for instance), and my opinions may well soon change – but for now, these are my choices (again, as introductions). Interestingly, Ed was originally (pre-editorial cuts) asked to make Spellfire "THE introductory novel to the Realms."
THO
|
| Tethtoril |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 15:06:18
Hail Scribes and Sages!
We are getting woefully off the topic of the scroll. Please wind down the 'how much does Ed's influence have in novels and feel of the Realms' and please return to the 'in seek of a little information on the Realms'.
I would really hate to seal away this scroll.  |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 05:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
and his brain consulted on all matters of dispute and query.
I can't even stagger an estimate at the number of times such consultation has taken place for I've seen more than a few designers/authors mention they contacted Ed Greenwood regarding some FR matter.
quote:
It’s in the few cases when authors didn’t that the products have sagged.
THO
And which products were these???? Don't worry, I don't expect an answer. But, can I guess? |
| Chyron |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 05:44:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
One nit more to pick, Chyron. Not with your views, but with your contention that Ed’s writing hasn’t been foremost in Realms game fiction since the Old Gray Box. Not so. Even when his name isn’t on the cover, his lore has usually been used, and his brain consulted on all matters of dispute and query. It’s in the few cases when authors didn’t that the products have sagged.
THO
Point taken THO, I certainly expect that he will be "THE" lasting influence and I did not mean to come across as saying otherwise. I have found any gaming supplement (1st 2nd or 3rd) with Mr. Greenwoods name on it to be the best of the gaming material in print. I love the realms more than any other world and if suddenly some force came in and said I could only have 1 supplement out of all of my many multitudes of manuals, there is no doubt in my mind that it would have Mr. Greenwoods name on it. (now making the exact decision as to which one among his works would be the hard part).
Anyway I have babbled on far to long and reached my rant quota  ...and in an effort to bring the post a bit back to topic, I would highly recommend The Rage or the Cleric Quintet to anyone just coming into the realms literature. |
| Chyron |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 05:30:22
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I have to disagree with the above. Ed originally created the Realms to write stories in. Yes Niles wrote the first "published" novel but Ed orinally wrote stories in FR when he was 9 years old. His first short story was One, Comes Unheralded, to Zirta.
Mirt, some of the Seven Sisters, Elminster, and others were in that original story that he wrote when he was 9 years old.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010821060144/http://www.wizards.com/books/main.asp?x=forgottenrealms/articles/begining2,2&b=forgottenrealms
Understandable. I don't know Mr. Greenwood personally as some of the scribes here might. But I think it is again a matter of First Impressions leaving a lasting impact. I would gather that most of the older gamers here have been introduced to the realms via the D&D supplements and not Mr. Greenwoods early unpublished works. Regardless of his intent, it was the published works that the reading and gaming world saw first. The Realms was made known (at least to me and many of my friends) as a world that followed (loosely) the rules according to D&D. That is why I said my perception of his novels are a bit biased since I tend to associate the realms in those terms and his style strives to break free of them. I am sure there are many readers who have never gamed a single day in their life who do not suffer from my particular reading dysfunction. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 05:26:28
One nit more to pick, Chyron. Not with your views, but with your contention that Ed’s writing hasn’t been foremost in Realms game fiction since the Old Gray Box. Not so. Even when his name isn’t on the cover, his lore has usually been used, and his brain consulted on all matters of dispute and query. It’s in the few cases when authors didn’t that the products have sagged.
THO
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 03:19:51
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
But I do have to disagree somewhat with your comparison regarding Tolkien and Jackson/Bakshi. Tolkien wrote the novel first and the films came second. In the realms case, the world references (i.e game supplements, etc.) were published first and Mr. Greenwood’s novels published second. Writing for a novel and writing for a sourcebook are not the same thing. So if Tolkien went on to try and direct the movie, would he be as good a director as Jackson or as good an animator as Bakshi? What if he wrote a game system for ME? And while no one is going to question that Tolkien is indeed that father of Middle Earth, consider also that Jackson has given it a feel of his own that now “is” the Middle Earth for many many people who have never read Tolkien. First impressions can be a powerful thing.
And as I said he is the father of the realms but many people have not encountered his writing. Bear in mind even Mr. Greenwood was not the first published author of Realms novels. That goes to Doug Niles with the first Moonshae trilogy. And really unless you play 1st ed (gray box only with a few supplements), much of the realms has been penned by other authors as well… so each person will have a different idea of what the realms feels like based one who they have read and what they have played. And to this I say there is no right or wrong…again it is subjective.
I have to disagree with the above. Ed originally created the Realms to write stories in. Yes Niles wrote the first "published" novel but Ed orinally wrote stories in FR when he was 9 years old. His first short story was One, Comes Unheralded, to Zirta.
Mirt, some of the Seven Sisters, Elminster, and others were in that original story that he wrote when he was 9 years old.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010821060144/http://www.wizards.com/books/main.asp?x=forgottenrealms/articles/begining2,2&b=forgottenrealms |
| Chyron |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 02:48:12
Don’t worry Blueblade, this is not the WOTC forums, your thoughts are welcome and respected. I know that if anything I am a bit of an outcast in allot of my views. 
I also have not yet read Elminster's Daughter. I am just finishing up Elminster in Hell. I am not “Anti-Ed” either, I respect him a great deal and think his writing for game design is unmatched. Would love to meet him and I think anyone here would give their left arm to actually have him DM a session. As I posted, I am a gamer and I personally just don’t get the adventure feel from his works, but I am not saying he is not talented.
But I do have to disagree somewhat with your comparison regarding Tolkien and Jackson/Bakshi. Tolkien wrote the novel first and the films came second. In the realms case, the world references (i.e game supplements, etc.) were published first and Mr. Greenwood’s novels published second. Writing for a novel and writing for a sourcebook are not the same thing. So if Tolkien went on to try and direct the movie, would he be as good a director as Jackson or as good an animator as Bakshi? What if he wrote a game system for ME? And while no one is going to question that Tolkien is indeed that father of Middle Earth, consider also that Jackson has given it a feel of his own that now “is” the Middle Earth for many many people who have never read Tolkien. First impressions can be a powerful thing.
And as I said he is the father of the realms but many people have not encountered his writing. Bear in mind even Mr. Greenwood was not the first published author of Realms novels. That goes to Doug Niles with the first Moonshae trilogy. And really unless you play 1st ed (gray box only with a few supplements), much of the realms has been penned by other authors as well… so each person will have a different idea of what the realms feels like based one who they have read and what they have played. And to this I say there is no right or wrong…again it is subjective.
I can’t say that I have a complete view of Mr. Greenwood as an author. I have not read any of his non-realms works yet, and I do intend to do so one day. But there are still a large number of Realms books on my backlist at Amazon ha ha….Again I am a gamer first so they get priority.
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 00:02:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I certainly hope no one reads me as being anti-Ed. I may not enjoy his books as much as I do those of other authors, but I do enjoy them. I enjoy his non-novel stuff a lot more, though.
I never took your comments as being anti-ed. However, I've been amazed at the ability of posters on more than one message board to take a comment such as:
"I just didn't enjoy "Insert Title here," I found it really boring overall to read."
and immediately make it a personal attack on the author.
Thus, I don't blame you at all for putting out the above quote about not "being anti-Ed," before H E Double toothpicks is perhaps unleashed. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 23:56:24
Oh of course I wasn't referring to you, Wooly. I was referring to some of the rather, shall we say "less than pleasant" reviewers of realms fiction out there. I would have said present company excluded, but Winterfox hadn't chimed in yet, and I would not want her to think I was picking on or at her.
Mostly because she frightens me.
No, maybe I am just easy to please but I have at least mildly enjoyed most all books I have read. Some stand out, but for the most part I am just generally that pleasant. Must be a reflex response of never getting that many new books out here in oklahoma. I almost hate to say it, but
We got the first book of the Avatars trilogy, and we liked it! We loved it! We read it every night and then hand copied it into notebooks so we could have an extra copy to keep in the car. SO what if it took two years to track down the next two books, we took what we could find... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 23:03:20
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Then again, I am easy to please and might enjoy Ed's books even if they were so bad as to make the eyes weep blood. however, I doubt they would be, despite what some of the more outspoken anti Ed realms fans might believe.
I certainly hope no one reads me as being anti-Ed. I may not enjoy his books as much as I do those of other authors, but I do enjoy them. I enjoy his non-novel stuff a lot more, though.
As for Realms books I didn't enjoy... Well, we shan't go there. The one that most readily comes to mind, I've not read in so long I can't remember the name of the author. I'll say that it was one of the Harpers novels, but not which one. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 22:39:02
I have never read any of Ed's books. Of the rest of the many authors of realms novels I have read, oh, perhaps six(not counting short stories and adventures) and generally enjoyed them all, some so much I felt too guilty to keep them and passed them on through the hands of a trail of burgeoning FR fans.
Then again, I am easy to please and might enjoy Ed's books even if they were so bad as to make the eyes weep blood. however, I doubt they would be, despite what some of the more outspoken anti Ed realms fans might believe.
I have however been reading Ed's works in dragon and dungeon for quite some time and am always greatly pleased.
However I thought Bakshi's treatment of lord of the rings was impressive for it's time, and enjoyed the DnD movie enough to procure a copy, so I might be a bit off in my judgements by some people's opinions. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 22:05:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My problem with having too much going on in a lot of Ed's books is just that with so many different plots, side-plots, and extra bits added in, I find I am not seeing the setting itself -- I lose track of it. It's almost like watching an over-the-top spy-action-thriller movie. There's just too much going on to keep track of it all, given the length of the books in question.
I understand what you are expressing here with past works. However, I think you'll be pleased with Elminster's Daughter as it was filled with a large cast of characters but I never had any problem keeping track of the book's events.
I look forward to hearing your comments on the novel. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 21:45:48
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
Interesting opinion. I’ve heard others say I and post it before. But I was at a panel at the last Gencon with a lot of the female Realms writers and editors at it, and I remember one of them saying Ed’s writing was the most feminine Realms books she’d read, and until she met him she thought it was a woman writer using a pen name. And a lot of the other ladies agreed.
Another thing. The last two Ed books I read had several ugly women in them, too, and so did Crown of Fire (the fat Harper agent), but people never seem to remember those. They just key on his babes.
I agree with Faraer. It’s like telling Tolkien he doesn’t write Middle Earth as well as Ralph Bakshi or Peter Jackson.
Also, that “too much going on” thing IS the Realms. Jeff Grubb even said that at a Gencon panel years ago: that the whole point of the Realms was its endless interweaving stories, not a single clean and clear plotline (like Dragonlance).
I’m not looking to pick fights, here, but to those of you who posted about Ed’s babes or too much going on, what did you think of ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER?
I've not gotten to Elminster's Daughter yet. I'm re-reading the Shandril books right now, and, before I sidetracked myself with new manga, I had just completed Spellfire. I'll prolly be reading Elminster's Daughter by the end of next week.
My problem with having too much going on in a lot of Ed's books is just that with so many different plots, side-plots, and extra bits added in, I find I am not seeing the setting itself -- I lose track of it. It's almost like watching an over-the-top spy-action-thriller movie. There's just too much going on to keep track of it all, given the length of the books in question.
I think the problem may not be as much Ed's writing, as the editorial cuts that were forced on it. Perhaps if I read some of his stuff uncut, as he originally intended it to be read, I'd like it more.
|
| Blueblade |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 21:23:21
Interesting opinion. I’ve heard others say it and post it before. But I was at a panel at the last Gencon with a lot of the female Realms writers and editors at it, and I remember one of them saying Ed’s writing was the most feminine Realms books she’d read, and until she met him she thought it was a woman writer using a pen name. And a lot of the other ladies agreed.
Another thing. The last two Ed books I read had several ugly women in them, too, and so did Crown of Fire (the fat Harper agent), but people never seem to remember those. They just key on his babes.
I agree with Faraer. It’s like telling Tolkien he doesn’t write Middle Earth as well as Ralph Bakshi or Peter Jackson. Fair game entirely to say you don't LIKE his books as much as Elaine's, but don't give the "feel of the Realms"? Sorry, can't buy that. Elaine could only echo what she read IN ED'S WRITING.
Also, that “too much going on” thing IS the Realms. Jeff Grubb even said that at a Gencon panel years ago: that the whole point of the Realms was its endless interweaving stories, not a single clean and clear plotline (like Dragonlance).
I’m not looking to pick fights, here, but to those of you who posted about Ed’s babes or too much going on, what did you think of ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER?
|
| Chyron |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 08:01:59
I have to agree with Wooly. Mr. Greenwood is the father of the realms and I respect him greatly, but his novel writing style just does not give me a realms (or even D&D) feel the way other authors do. I know it sounds a bit strange, but it is my feeling. Also his characters are always superhuman in terms of gaming and for me as a reader who is a gamer I find it harder to relate to such wild tales. As such I don¡¦t like tales of Gods, Chosen and Spellfire which are almost always his focus.
I prefer reading stories of normal adventures as depicted in Ms. Cunningham¡¦s works and to some extent Mr. Salvatore¡¦s early books. Some might argue that the first two books of the Elminster series are less power-mongering, but when characters are conversing with Gods (and making love to them) on a regular basis then I start to lose my connection with them. For people who have never played D&D I am sure they have an entirely different take on his style, so I admit I am a bit biased.
It is also interesting to see how he writes about his lead women (which I find he tends to make into templates of beautiful sexually liberated characters who are frequently found clad in less than a chainmail bikini) in comparison with a female author like Ms. Cunningham who brings a truly feminine perspective to her leads. Personally I would never NOT recommend a FR book as I think they all have things to offer to the richness of the realms. Stories like any creative art will have aspects that appeal to different people.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 19:22:08
I'll not argue that Ed's books are the definitive source of Realms flavor. But when I read his books, I don't feel the Realms. There's so much stuff going on that I simply don't experience the setting itself. I do with Elaine's books. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 18:43:30
Well (again), if you like them better, obviously that's fine, and there's no gainsaying that. But I don't think you can make the case that they feel more like the Realms than the work of its creator, who's been able to tour his world in his head, and show you what's around the next corner seemingly at will, for 20 years before Elaine -- who I'm absolutely a fan of -- knew they existed.
And a new reader should certainly read at least a few books of Ed's, to know what the Realms are about, and to get a chance to find his voice, which I think is one of *the* treats of modern sword and sorcery. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 18:15:34
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Really? I mean, when I read Elfshadow I was really impressed by how Realms-authentic it was; and Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay did a good job expanding and rewriting parts of the Silmarillion, but they're judged next to J.R.R., and the feel of the Realms is judged next to Ed Greenwood, as I dare say Elaine would agree.
Well, the thing is, I've never been a huge fan of Ed's novels. I've just never quite enjoyed them as much as I have the books by other Realms writers.
I'm not looking for trouble here, I'm just stating my opinion. Let this not turn into a debate or flamewar. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 17:59:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To me, the books by Elaine Cunningham best capture the feel of the Realms.
I agree. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 17:42:54
Really? I mean, when I read Elfshadow I was really impressed by how Realms-authentic it was; and Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay did a good job expanding and rewriting parts of the Silmarillion, but they're judged next to J.R.R., and the feel of the Realms is judged next to Ed Greenwood, as I dare say Elaine would agree. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 17:25:07
To me, the books by Elaine Cunningham best capture the feel of the Realms. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 15:59:27
quote:
Originally posted by Gion
I'll take consideration of this advice. hehehe. What do you reccommend me after finishing reading the Avatar Trilogy?
That all depends, what do you like to read within a story? Any themes you strongly respond to? |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 12:16:31
I suggest the Cleric's Quintet, a series I enjoyed far more than many of the Drizzt novels, for some reason. |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 08:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by RogueAssassin
These books are great. If anyone is new to the realms I recommend reading these and also The Eleminster books. Again Great Books..
-The Rogue
I'll take consideration of this advice. hehehe. What do you reccommend me after finishing reading the Avatar Trilogy? |
| Dantrag |
Posted - 12 Jun 2004 : 04:27:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dantrag
The Elimimster series is good until you get to the 2nd book. Somehow I can't get into it.
But the Salvatore series is awesome, i have read the books two times over. Just can't put them down.
Anyways have an adventurous reading and scimitars high!
|
| TwoBit |
Posted - 11 Jun 2004 : 04:15:33
Thank you kuje31, now I'm able to pick up where I left off. I too recomend these books to anyone, you'll be hard pressed to find a more well written book. R.A. Salvator is a dream weaver with such unconceivable disciptive language. The character of Drizzt Do'Urden will keep you drooling for more. When you are finely overcome whith exhaustion your dreams will be carried off to Faerun.
As far as the Eleminster sieries it was to slow getting into it I had to put it down. My cousin did say it is an "excellent" book though.
Thank you both,
TwoBit |
|
|
