| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 31 Dec 2018 : 14:58:54
Some time ago, back when the earth (and the DM's Guild) were young, I contemplated doing a history of the moonblades. But upon reflection, I concluded that the books in which these were featured were written so long ago that there would be little interest in these elven artifacts.
If you ARE interested in such a story, which of these would be of most interest?
- A general history of the moonblades
- A short history of specific blades, such as Arilyn's, the Kingsword, or the Craulnober moonblade, with a write-up of each wielder and the power he, she, or they added
- A listing of lost or unclaimed blades, with story hooks for possible campaign adventures
- A brief debunking of moonblade myths and misconceptions
- Bits of short fiction to illuminate the history of certain wielders
- Recent history, with an update on the current state and probable future of the elven monarchy.
- Other?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 19 May 2022 : 03:19:33
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think that's absolutely correct TBeholder, and moreover, why would the elves broadcast the secrets of their ancient magic? Given the time of Myth Drannor was the likely first time any non-elves had ever seen a Moonblade, it was just as easy to say that they had been forged there rather than risk giving away the secrets of Elven Court and other places of power around Faerûn where their magic was actually instilled.
-- George Krashos
"Outright lies? I wouldn't say that. Expect wizards to obfuscate, prevaricate, and overcomplicate any explanation or statement. Expect elves to do the same while taking thirty times as long to do the same."
Eleakin Sardervaar, sage of Uluvin, 1399 DR
As George sagely noted above, the elves won't give up the least scraps of information they don't have to; some tel'quessir find that questioners, especially humans and halflings, will fill in any blanks of conversation because they don't have the patience to wait for an elf to answer at their preferrred pace.
Thus, when folk ask about things the elves don't want to fully reveal if discuss at all, there have been many times that a scholar guessed in haste or limited understanding and no elf chose to correct any assumptions made.
After all, one of the things that isn't always remembered by non-elves is that the Fair Folk were within a few short generations of the Fall of Netheril when Cormanthyr rose, and they still had far to go to reach the levels of trust that Eltargrim built with nonelves in Myth Drannor.
So, any time a n'tel'quess asked about great elven magics they heard of, they often associated it with the most notable or then well-known place of elven magic.
The fact that many sources attribute things to Myth Drannor even though tighter research would reveal that many things some folk linked to that realm were vastly older than that more familiar place. Moonblades are definitely among such things.
In short, it's less that elves have lied about moonblade lore and more that they let others cloud the waters with their own guesses, assumptions, and jumped-to-conclusions.
In short, if people want to assume things came from Myth Drannor, that's fine; they can find that place…and it keeps them from muddying the doorsteps of other elven places they'd rather not mention.
Clear as mud? Glad I could help.
Steven
who knows Khelben collected more than a handful of tomes (many of which are held in high regard by revered sages) that have serious lore issues in terms of attribution of origins to Myth Drannor or Cormanthyr…and he kept his own counsel rather than correct the longstanding errors, as it suited his plans to do just that. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 May 2022 : 10:09:08
I think that's absolutely correct TBeholder, and moreover, why would the elves broadcast the secrets of their ancient magic? Given the time of Myth Drannor was the likely first time any non-elves had ever seen a Moonblade, it was just as easy to say that they had been forged there rather than risk giving away the secrets of Elven Court and other places of power around Faerûn where their magic was actually instilled.
-- George Krashos |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 May 2022 : 10:36:51
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he�s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.
It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo�s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.
First of all, what exactly does Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves say? Here:
quote:
The Moonblades
This was also an important time for the elves, as the collec-
tive High Mages of Faerûn the Elven Court, and many elven
clan elders conceived of and created the moonblades, the
magical swords that would aid the elves in choosing more
worthy and wise rulers.
- Cormanthyr, p.23
Second, "a character said so in a novel" is not the level on which detailed sourcebooks were done before Diablo Edition. Nor typical FR novels, for that matter.
Third, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves (March 1998) is, uh, unlikely to use as a source Evermeet: Island of the Elves (April 1998).
A reasonable guess on this "discrepancy" is that obviously anachronistic appearance of "Myth Drannor" was the result of a straightforward conflation adapted in a much later era.
At which point, Occam's Razor suggests trying the same principle as it would go further. Which over millennia could indeed easily produce the entire chain of distortion step by step: in Elven Court -> Cormanthyr -> [Cormanthor ->] Myth Drannor. |
| King Libertine |
Posted - 09 May 2022 : 09:01:06
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.
-- George Krashos
As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.
It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo’s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.
That is not what we read in Evermeet: Island of elves. Wasn't that in like ancient Keltormiir or something> |
| King Libertine |
Posted - 09 May 2022 : 08:53:58
Fflar Starbrow Melruth. 1374 DR |
| Athreeren |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 18:53:08
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
And finally, the fact that only moon elves ever succeeded in wielding a moonblade made me wonder about reincarnation: when an elf return from Arvandor, do they always come back as the same race? *
I've found the answer to this one: Greenwillow is a half-elf from a Moon elf tribe who dies in Sword Play, and is revealed in Mortal Consequences to have been reincarnated as a "part-elf" (no clear information is given as to how much elven blood her father had, but her clear elven traits indicate he was probably a half-elf) of a different race. It is not clear which as the priestess only say "Eaerlanni, most ancient of the Shadow Folk", but she explicitly say there is no Moon elf blood in Knucklebone. So it seems that at least half-elves can reincarnate into beings who have even less elven blood, regardless of their race. It thus seems likely that race doesn't really matter in the reincarnation of elves (well, except for drow) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jan 2022 : 06:34:54
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would expect a lot of recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with more of the "elves are just better" attitude and are slowly nudged in the direction of "it'd be better if these others just weren't there."
I would expect a lot of prospective recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with nothing more than "elves should defend themselves and their interests against predators and rivals" attitude. Which is simply sane.
And then be nudged toward "humans are plague upon the land".
But mostly it seems to be a bitterness thing on the individual level and temper tantrum loop on the collective level. Just like with the dhaeraowathila, or with Crown Wars. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 23 Dec 2021 : 13:37:51
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.
I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".
As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.
For example, the first property might be "charm monster."
The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.
The third property might be "disguise self."
The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)
None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.
I'd agree with everything there except the last bit. There is no reason an honorable elf could not be a deadly assassin; that's where we started after all. The problem comes with making it an EVIL assassin that doesn't live up to the blade's judgment. Also, my memory on the Eldreth Veluuthra is not perfect but I believe room was left there for neutral members, so you could do that easily enough... I think it hits a little too close to Elfblade, but you write | | |
