| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Faraer |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 18:13:28
Mike Mearls discussed the core stories of D&D in a recent blog post: 'the stereotypical game experience contained within an RPG'. The whole thing is worth reading: http://www.livejournal.com/users/mearls/97347.html
The core story of the Realms as a campaign setting, implicit in all Ed's writings, exemplified by the Knights of Myth Drannor and others, is something like this:quote:
A group of young men and women seeks adventure. They discover themselves and each other as they gain allies and foes in a wideningly dangerous and politically, socially, magically and historically complex world. They experience risk, freedom and camaraderie, and become not just self-interested seekers of treasure and knowledge, but heroes; important figures in their community with responsibilities and emotional and monetary investments. They come in contact with the mighty of Faerūn, explore other planes and worlds, and semi-retire as veteran adventurers.
That's just a quick attempt. But writing it out shows how involved that core story is (and my attempt to write it misses a lot); that it's not stated fully in any published source; that this core story has still never been told in scenario or novel form; and why the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy is so long-awaited (whether we realize it or not) as the paradigmatic Realms fiction. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 20:32:13
Bingo! Right on: Faraer, you've just said almost EXACTLY what Ed did in explaining the "whys" of the complexities of Realms magic to us, his players, back in 1979 (!).
love,
THO |
| Faraer |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 20:15:18
A great depth of magical complexity which yawns like a chasm to the novice mage and which recedes into mystery the more you learn. Thousands of spells, variant magic types, local spellcasting traditions, rare spontaneous magical talents, mantles and spell triggers, layered enchantments, high magic, table magic... The magic of the Realms is designed to be hugely various and complex, to create wonder, world-solidity, mystery, to surprise (and if needed, frustrate) book-peeking players who think they know all. It's far more complex than the rules represent. (Whereas the magic of the World of Greyhawk is pretty much exactly as modelled by the (A)D&D rules.) |
| Lashan |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 20:01:43
I have to admit that I have no idea what "the abyss of magical complexity" is. |
| LordAnki |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 16:51:05
Thinking back to the Dragonlance Setting. The core story was changed. (Novel wise) when all the gods just disappeared so therefore the cleric or other deity needed to cast magic was disabeled(sp). But I kind of get what you're saying. But IMO everyone in the realms creates the core story. The merchants, scribes, sages, the rangers, the orcs everyone. If there were no merchants then no rangers would have equipment unless they crafted it themsevles.. If there were no orcs then the rangers couldn't ahve any fun by using the equipment that they got from the merches. (I confused myself.)  |
| Faraer |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 16:26:32
To take just a few gross points of difference, the World of Greyhawk doesn't have the abyss of magical complexity, the exploration of esprit de corps and what risking death together does to people, the quick and dense strata of interacting power groups, the theme of transcending selfishness and gaining help from compassion which lets companies 'punch above their weight', or the endgame of Faerūn's veteran adventurers. Instead there's a strong emphasis on finding one's place in the war of good, evil and neutrality, a stress on dungeons, on gaining individual power as 'name level' characters, etc.
The core story is somewhat analogous to a character class for a group. While I haven't fully conveyed in my write-up the details and sublety of the adventuring culture and its paradigmatic pattern, they are a big part of what the Realms are to me, certainly. Rich Baker seemed receptive to my idea of a Realms book on adventurers last time I mentioned it to him, so maybe we'll see more of this in explicit print. |
| Lashan |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 13:19:02
Sorry for the confusion. I meant my ramblings were useless if you meant Ed's fiction or home campaign. My home game wouldn't be involved in that scenario.
I don't know. I've played DnD for years and that description seems to sum up most campaigns that I have played in. It's not just the Realms that has this attitude, but most DnD games. That description fits for a Greyhawk game that I play in and a home brewed game that I play in, too. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 21:56:22
It's the core story of adventurers in the Realms, which informs what Ed, at least, writes in sourcebooks and fiction. If you look at, say, FRQ1, the adventuring-company sections of Spellfire, Elminster in Myth Drannor, The Temptation of Elminster, Ruins of Undermountain, Secrets of the Magister, they all have parts of this core story that's repeated again and again in the lore. The Knights of Myth Drannor are just the most fully realized example of the story.
Yes, of course this isn't a story you're obliged to tell. But it's wonderfully rich and resonant (though my summary isn't), it's the story Realmslore returns too and orbits around, and it's a bedrock you can go back to after running variant campaigns. For me, it's a nice corrective to realize this in contrast to the bland 'the Realms is a place where you can do whatever you want' attitudes. It's also the story young people hear (if they put together the pieces) about the heroes of previous generations, which they can match themselves by. The Realms isn't just a set of places and characters, it's a tone, a mode of storytelling, a set of archetypal situations and conflicts.
So this may not be worthwhile for you, but even if it did refer to Ed's fiction and campaigns alone, that would be far from worthless overall. |
| Lashan |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 20:23:12
I'm a bit confused. Are you trying to summerize how Ed's campaign has gone? Or how Ed's novels go? Or just the whole FR setting in general?
Personally, my FR games would not fit into that description that you gave. I don't believe that the Forgotten Realms has an overall "flavor" that you could pin down into a description like that. The game world is diverse and intersting and every DM will play their campaign in a different way. I can use the FR to set up a high adventure swashbuckling campaign. I can also use it for a down-in-the-gutter rogue's campaign. There is always (and too often) the high magic campaign with wizards and whatnot in them. Personally all FR games are different.
I would have defined one of my favorite campaigns thusly:
"A group of young men and women seek adventure. While searching for fame and fortune, they are forced to face their own morality and make decisions based on ethical decisions. The party's success rises and falls based on the decisions they choose as the outside world evolves around them."
Of course, if you are referring to just the novels or Ed's home campaign, then all this is just worthless. |
| LordAnki |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 18:28:16
IMO there isn't a core story to the realms. Everything happens for a reason. Theres a big balance that must be kept within the realms. The balance of good and evil, weak and strong. Chars in the Realms also see this and try to bend the balance in their favor. Everyone makes their own story in the realms and I dont think there is a core story. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 23:44:17
I think my capsule of the Realms' core story is uniquely Realmsian, but it doesn't successfully convey that unless you already know what it's summarizing! So it both succeeds and fails. But if I wrote up one for the World of Greyhawk, and I have altogether too little spare creative energy to do that just now, it would look quite different. Or compare it to Mearls's: it clearly both a lot to but is very different in stress from the norms of D&D. And what I wrote is enough to see where the published materials fail to support large areas of what's supposed to happen, though no one exactly tells you, in campaigns.
Libraries are very hit and miss. Tried amazon.com, katherinna? |
| katherinna |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 13:17:59
I have been trying to find books but there not any i am a kentucky girl oh I wish. thier was one libray's that i live the three have them missing. |
| Dragon Cultist |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 12:35:00
Much as I like the Drizzt stories and other lone wolf novels, I kinda miss "party-based" tales in Realms books.
One recent exception is the "Year of Rogue Dragons" series. Here we have a more-or-less-true party. About time! Of course, the party is almost immediately scattered across the Faerūnian landscape; but hey! Even Tolkien had a divided group.
On-topic, about the core story of the Realms I feel that Faraer's quick attempt definition is a pretty good jumping-off point. What's lacking at the moment is a definition of what makes the core story uniquely Realmsian.. You see, as the definition now stands, it could read more or less the same when applied to, say, Oerth or Krynn.
Having said that, I realize it would be constructive of me to have something to add to that definition, then. Will think on that.
(By the way: Since I am a relative newcomer and the tone of forum posts can be easily misread, let me make clear that I don't mean to come across as disparaging or patronizing about your post, Faraer.) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 17:38:05
Well, I say 'semi-retire' -- it's retiring in the pro wrestling sense, always one last adventure. (This part of the story is told in parts of The Temptation of Elminster.) Realms heroes and villains alike are often unwilling to let go, prolonging their lives magically. But it would also be fitting to take a leaf from Pendragon (and, in fact, Dragonlance) and play the PCs' children.
Since this core story is long and involved, it's not so surprising that the whole thing hasn't been told in books. The popularity of Drizzt accounts in part for why the books department is so attached to the lone-hero model, but -- as we know -- it causes problems when people try to relive that story in roleplaying campaigns. Whereas the adventuring company story reinforces campaigns and encourages people to play the game. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 15:28:37
Well met!
Indeed, I think that is how every DM tries to plan their campaigns, though I have yet to see players who wish to see their characters retire 
As I just bought 'Hand of Fire' - and yet wish to see 'Elminster's daughter' at my local bookstore (*sigh*) - I am waiting for Ed's trilogy with renewed enthusiasm... |
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