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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11734 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2024 : 23:08:56
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Saw the below in the thread on Ed's twitter releases. So, I clicked the twitter link (the second one) to listen to what Ed said. Essentially he was leading up to the idea that Nar Demonbinders used fire control AND the igniting of demon blood to control demons. Then it cut off. Anyone know if there was more to this? Like did he release like a big article on his patreon or something?
quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
On Nar demon binding
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1783905435168211161
Apr 27, 2024
@TheEdVerse
I've just released some new #realmslore, this time on binding demons, just like the Nar folk. ;}
https://twitter.com/i/status/1783905435168211161
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1296 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2024 : 04:34:39
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| It is either a Patreon release which would require you subscribe to get access to the full video/sound clip, or it's a tease for a future video release on his YouTube. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6653 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2024 : 03:05:37
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The full write up was released on his Patreon.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1495 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2024 : 15:02:49
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| Sleyvas, this is somewhat offtopic, but given your interest in Velsharoon, you might be happy to know that Ed released a Thay supplement some time back with some interesting tidbits about the man who would become the god of necromancy. Let's just say that he was part of history and has a really good reason to resent the current Thayvian administration. |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1296 Posts |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1845 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2024 : 03:04:46
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| LoB: Are you referring to Thay, Land of the Red Wizards or some other product? Which one and what pages? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11734 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2024 : 20:04:49
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Sleyvas, this is somewhat offtopic, but given your interest in Velsharoon, you might be happy to know that Ed released a Thay supplement some time back with some interesting tidbits about the man who would become the god of necromancy. Let's just say that he was part of history and has a really good reason to resent the current Thayvian administration.
Really? I'd very much be interested to see what he did with him. I'm sure my version is very different (I made the mortal velsharoon a mage (generalist)/dread necromancer / binder/anima mage/ultimate magus under 3.5e rules when I was playing with his backstory ... and the binder piece added interesting pieces). Where is it at? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1495 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2024 : 07:53:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Sleyvas, this is somewhat offtopic, but given your interest in Velsharoon, you might be happy to know that Ed released a Thay supplement some time back with some interesting tidbits about the man who would become the god of necromancy. Let's just say that he was part of history and has a really good reason to resent the current Thayvian administration.
Really? I'd very much be interested to see what he did with him. I'm sure my version is very different (I made the mortal velsharoon a mage (generalist)/dread necromancer / binder/anima mage/ultimate magus under 3.5e rules when I was playing with his backstory ... and the binder piece added interesting pieces). Where is it at?
Tyrants in Scarlet: the Founding History of the Zulkirs of Thay.
Big V was indeed Halruuan, and he, Zhengyi and Ythazz were college buddies. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6653 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2024 : 04:17:21
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That’s not Ed’s supplement. It’s mine. Although he did contribute to it.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1495 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2024 : 05:04:20
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That’s not Ed’s supplement. It’s mine. Although he did contribute to it.
— George Krashos
Good to know, thanks. The dmsguilds lists both of you as the authors.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11734 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2024 : 17:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Sleyvas, this is somewhat offtopic, but given your interest in Velsharoon, you might be happy to know that Ed released a Thay supplement some time back with some interesting tidbits about the man who would become the god of necromancy. Let's just say that he was part of history and has a really good reason to resent the current Thayvian administration.
Really? I'd very much be interested to see what he did with him. I'm sure my version is very different (I made the mortal velsharoon a mage (generalist)/dread necromancer / binder/anima mage/ultimate magus under 3.5e rules when I was playing with his backstory ... and the binder piece added interesting pieces). Where is it at?
Tyrants in Scarlet: the Founding History of the Zulkirs of Thay.
Big V was indeed Halruuan, and he, Zhengyi and Ythazz were college buddies.
Oh, yeah that I knew about. I very much liked what George did with that, and we'd used different persons to achieve much of the same ends (I had Ythazz Buvarr being a lich from Thayd's time to explain away Ythazz becoming a demilich, and had him being discovered by Velsharoon and freed from his phylactery... leading Velsharoon to some
ancient ruins and old mysteries... whereas George used a backstory for Szass Tam under another name that extends his time back to Thayd). My goal in using Ythazz in this way was to provide a reason for these Halruaans coming to the "Priador" and naming the new country after Thayd, as Ythazz may have filled Velsharoon's head with stories of the ancient spellcaster from 2 millenia prior.... but its not a necessary thing as obviously the Halruaans were leaders, but there was a large number of mulan blooded leaders as well.
To note, George's explanation contradicts some lore about Szass Tam's (Tarloth Narmandur's) history, which rather than complain about, I prefer to view as an opportunity to create an interesting story. Just to kind of explain via quotes, I'm going to put some sources below... the follow up with some ideas for both Szass Tam and Velsharoon... because since George is at least reading this thread... why not use it to share ideas. Hopefully George won't mind me posting bits from his DM's Guild product.
Sources below George's article Tyrants in Scarlet: The Founding History of the Zulkirs of Thay
Tarloth was one of Thayd’s first seven anointed zulkirs and survived the Great Rebellion, in turn playing a significant role in the creation of the Orcgate. Following the defeat of the orcs, Tarloth took on many guises and in one of them as a disciple of Horus-Re, managed to steal and imbibe some of the khaledshran, an elixir of immortality derived from the precious divine blood of the dead deity Re and given to each incarnation of Horus-Re upon that individual’s ascension to the throne of Mulhorand.
When Tarloth sought to solve the problem in one fell swoop by slaying Escalthar, he was brutally rebuffed by the ustakir, who drew on the power of the Athora to sweep away his attacker’s spell shields and wound him severely, causing his mystery antagonist to teleport away in agony-filled, haste.
1030 Year of Warlords The Zulkirs are established as the rulers of Thay by Escalthar at the Council of the Black Star, who is named the first Ustakir.19
1032 Year of the Nightmaidens Iphonos Cor becomes Ustakir of Thay.
Sources below Dreams of the Red Wizards
For about a century after Thay became a nation, the Guild of Portagers charged exorbitant rates to haul vessels up the river. Then the Wizard Shevas Tam (father of the current Zulkir of the School of Necromancy) was confronted with a demanding chief of the Guild and killed him. Shevas Tam then had his minions slaughter most of the Guild members and Shevas Tam turned them into zombies.
1104 DR Birth of Zulkir Szass Tam
Szass Tam is zulkir of the School of Necromancy, third head of his family since the first days of Thay. He has been around for 250 years, 195 of them as a lich.
The Tam: This is one of the more ancient families of Thay, not only in lineage but in age of its membership. Its head, Zulkir Szass Tarn, is only the third person to hold that position under conditions that are explained in the Notable Persons of Thay section of this book. At this point, we can only say that the seat of the Tam family is commonly referred to as "The Necropolis."
source below Old Empires and Dungeon Magazine #10 Threshold of Evil
Recently large tracts of the hills of Maerth were purchased by the wellknown plane-wandering archmage Azurax Silverhawk (23rd-level mage), who is seeking a philosopher's stone.
In Dungeon #10 Azurax Silverhawk is a 21st level evil archmage who uses lifedrain to make "pigments of longevity" from his blood and then paint these into a "portrait of longevity". This is two years before Old Empires comes out and is by the same author.
sources below GHotR
827 DR Year of the Sacrificed Fortune
The wizard Omm Hlandrar of Halruaa engages a Red Wizard named Velsharoon in a spectacular magical battle in the skies over the Shaar. The contest ends in a draw.
1159 DR Year of the Cloven Stones Szass Tam [1157, 1159], Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay, becomes a lich after an abortive invasion of Rashemen.
below source can be found in this thread, which is tied to a lot of George's work and was apparently some original work by Ed that we've all tried to work around.
http://candlekeep.com/forum/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=505274&TOPIC_ID=22115&FORUM_ID=8
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
TIYARRA ZULKIRATE (= Of the History/Lore of the Zulkirs)
{Ed Greenwood, 1991}
The zulkirs began as Thayd’s inner circle of trusted “loyals” (in their hearts, most of them were anything but, but only one—Ilkrim Hlannadar, better known to Thayan folklore as “the Dragondevoured,” thanks to Thayd’s swift and ruthless reaction to his treachery—ever dared defy him openly). These “loyals” served the founder of Thay as his personal lieutenants, who led Thayan warbands, acted as his messengers, enforcers, and assassins, and helped keep Thayd the dominant wizard in the northern lands wrested from Mulhorand and Unther, and home to many independent mages of power, until the realm of Thay was consolidated.
Originally there were seven zulkirs, then six and five through battle losses. It was only after the death of Thayd that their numbers became set, and linked to specific “schools” of wizardry.
When Thayd fell, a bitter struggle for power followed, in which scores of ambitious wizards perished. Eventually the survivors, brought to reluctant obedience by threat of being trapped in the “Escalthar’s Everlasting Curse” spell that would shapechange them every few breaths, uncontrollably, for the rest of their lives, met with the wizard Escalthar (who had devised that spell, and cast it upon most of those survivors) atop Laltharr, a bare crag (later blasted to rubble in a spell-duel) in southwestern Thay.
This moot later became known as the Council of the Black Star (after the black star mage-sigil used by Escalthar).
So, why do I list all of that? Well, Tarloth / Szass was apparently a literal immortal from imbibing a bit of the blood of Re .... so lichdom seems a severe step backwards. I would therefore propose that the attack between Escalthar and Szass was more than debilitating (which would have had to have occurred between 1030 and 1032 since Escalthar was still Ustakir/Chairmaster/Master of Thrones). I propose that maybe Tarloth had to give up that body and take another.... and the body he ended up taking was the body of Szass Tam? But if that were the case, Szass Tam wouldn't even be BORN for 70+ years ... why did it take SOOOO long? Well, what if Tarloth was inflicted with Escalthar's Everlasting Curse but he had lasting protections up that would enable him to survive without breathing. If he were immortal, then he'd literally be stuck somewhere shapeshifting uncontrollably every few seconds FOREVER without dying. Thus, he could survive becoming say a fish out of water. So PERHAPS the young wizard "Szass Tam" came upon the shapechanging body of "Tarloth Narmandur" and SOMEHOW.... Tarloth STOLE Szass's body, leaving the soul of "Szass" in the immortal body that was shape changing.
If this were indeed the case, some other notes would be that Shevas Tam created the "Long Portage" sometime after the 1020's but before the 1120's.... and Shevas was only the second "Tam" to head the family in two centuries time. I would presume that people would note if the same person were simply replacing each other, so I assume that Shevas and his father were doing something to extend their lives... but that this something wouldn't preclude them fathering children like undeath would. So possibly potions of longevity OR possibly the family already had developed some means of soul transference to a younger body (other explanations might work). If it were the second option, then that makes the option of Tarloth "swapping bodies" with Szass more viable/believable from a story standpoint if it was done using a magic item that Tarloth could commmandeer. It might also be something wherein Tarloth maybe swapped bodies with Szass, killed Shevas, and then took control of the family Tam as head of household (possibly then framing "Szass in the body of Tarloth" for the murder of Shevas).
Just to open up some possibilities... maybe the nature of this device is such that it basically allows the transfer of a soul into a clone, making the clone active, while deactivating the current body. This is something that just happens now, but in pre-spellplague times it was an issue noted in the spell if somehow two clones became active at the same time.
This opens up an option for there being a poor "Szass Tam" who was never really powerful that has now been trapped in an ever shapeshifting immortal body... an immortal body that Tarloth/Szass may have imprisoned away and may use to draw "essence"/blood from for the purpose of magical item creation.
Now, let's do some more story making... why does Szass Tam/Tarloth have an especial hatred for Velsharoon enough that they are called out as enemies? Nothing is really spelled out specifically in the article that I recall, so lets make something up.
So, in the 1350's we have that this Azurax Silverhawk is a 23rd level archmage..... so presumably LOWER in level than Velsharoon. We also have that Azurax is active in Chessenta. We know that Azurax is anciently old per the dungeon magazine article. We also know that Velsharoon has his Tower Terrible in Soorenar in Chessenta as one residence (the only one mentioned, so presumably an important one). We also know that Velsharoon has lived for centuries, but he is NOT undead, because he's mentioned as becoming a god of necromancy during a ritual that was turning him into a lich.
So, lets go out on a limb here and presume that
A) Velsharoon developed the concept of portraits of longevity, and it was one of the things that got him ostracized in Halruaa.
B) Velsharoon exchanged knowledge of this process with Azurax and possibly other mages for REASON UNDEVELOPED AT THIS TIME... OR Azurax discovered Velsharoon's method and redeveloped the methodology himself.
C) Velsharoon's portraits of longevity were created using the life force of incarnations of Mulhorandi Godkings or something similar involving the godkings (taking some of their blood, etc...).
Now, what if Velsharoon discovered Szass/Tarloth's immortal shapechanging "Szass Tam in the wrong body". What if he stole that body and was using its life essence/blood for enhancing his own portrait of longevity in the centuries leading up to his deific ascension? I'd say that that would create enough enmity between the two to definitely make them both consider the other their enemy.
Along these same lines, in the article George wrote, its noted that
The Red Wizards wore blood-red robes because Ulzunder liked to “bathe in the blood of virgins” (that is, magically sacrificed young, strong, and virginal males and females of human, elven, and half-elven bloodlines) as part of his experimentations toward achieving lifelong youthful vigor, and wanted some means of readily concealing bloodstains. He wore blood-red robes, and so did they, many of them attempting the same evil processes Ulzunder indulged in, which was his main inducement to other mages to join him in his order.
So, just like Azurax, the pre-red wizards were experimenting with extending life using blood, and its noted that Velsharoon was among them... so a little more weight to the above.
Finally, Ed's first article (a handout at some gencon LOOONG ago) on the creation of the Zulkirate indicated that Thayd himself was involved with the founding of Thay. It also indicated that he was now a spirit like entity that possessed people and burned them out (similar in some ways to a suel lich). Ironically, in a nation right next door, there are also beings that are "spirit like" that occur upon the death of a person, but they're more benevolent (i.e. telthors .... hmmm, Hathors... Hmmm, Athora).
It occurs to me that perhaps the athora or similar things in the region makes a great thing to which Thayd may have long ago tied himself to as a phylactery of sorts... and as such, it might have captured/recreated him in a form to a degree not unlike a suel lich, especially if something went wrong. Maybe he also couldn't free himself from it to occupy a body until the red wizards came along and freed him in return for the promise of power, and thus he may have initially helped with the rebellion. He may have even ridden/shared the body of one of these red wizards. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 29 May 2024 19:06:46 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11734 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2024 : 19:24:26
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Hmmmm, and something I never would have thought about just caught my eye in the old 2nd edition "lords of darkness" when I was researching the 3000 year old Mulhorandi lich named Charchee who apparently per George's article was in Phozzulbalt. Its in regard pseudoliches... a possible state that Shevas Tam may have existed in instead of doing the life transfer thing.
Pseudo-liches resemble real liches in all characteristics except energy draining and the possession of a phylactery. They cannot be turned, and can produce progeny. They are created when a very powerful magic-user is fanatically pursuing a certain goal at the time of death. Some inexplicable force, perhaps due to years of exposure to magic, allows the wizard's soul to inhabit the shell of its dead body until the goal is achieved or the body crumbles to dust. Such pseudo-liches exist only 1d100 years beyond death, cannot successfully prepare for lichdom while in this state, and are entirely intent on their research or goal. Unless attacked or prevented from furthering their all important work, they will pay events (and adventurers) around them no attention.
While I don't necessarily see this offhand as a good method to extend Shevas Tam's life AND allow him to birth a child... its another viable solution to maybe consider.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Nar Demonbinding - Ed's recent release
