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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 20:07:44
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Anyways....anyone read that series by George R.R. Martin? I'm bored and most of the threads on here are crazy out of my league and confusing so simple ol me wanted to start a thread of mine own. Thoughts, ideas, comments, on said series...have at it...its not Forgotten Realms, and I suppose this could be breaking rules like I so commonly did back in the days...but eh, i'll give her a good ol shot aye?
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 23:36:06
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Fire and Ice is way, way, waaay different from the Realms (there are precious few "rapers" in Realms novels, and death scenes aren't usually dragged out over a page and a half, nor do central characters get killed on a regular basis). That said, I and everyone I know who has read the series absolutely loves it. I was introduced to it through the short story prequel which was anthologized some years ago -- "The Hedge Knight" in Legends, which is now apparently a separate book with its own sequel.
I edit my earlier post: A Dance for Dragons is available through my city's public library. I am now Number 30(!) on the hold request list.
Also, when I posted the above, I was thinking only of the relation of the series to FR novels (almost none); in fact, the novels weave such an opulently rich tapestry of low fantasy Medievalism that they would make an ideal accessory to a DM or player's mental archives. Those who don't know what a boom and chain across a channel are will learn (in bloody detail) when they read of one of the Lannister's sieges. Inns are described in stinky detail. The convoluted messiness of "noble" inheritance is a central theme of the series, and reading it would greatly enrich the role-playing of anyone who has a Power of Faerun Herald character. The "upstairs-downstairs" of great castles and small keeps are dealt with, and one location (The Eyrie) has such a spectacular means of disposing of unwanted guests that many a DM will want to incorporate it into a castle somewhere in their Realms (or perhaps in one of those militant Shou monasteries).
For those who can't read enough about the storage rooms in the royal palace in Suzail, there is a musty storage room in the F&R saga. There are also dragons. And crazed cultists. And assassins.
CAVEAT LECTOR!
Yeah, the Song of Fire and Ice saga is inspirational for gamers, but BE WARNED these are not children's books (unless your kids are named Wednesday and Pugsley). They deal with sex, violence, bullying, politics, and other unpleasantries almost as bad as politics. If you cried over Bambi's Mom or Old Yeller, this is absolutely not the series for you. If you are incapable of tears it might also be unsuited to you: Martin goes for catharsis, and people with flattened affects need not apply. As for the sex ... whew! ... rape, incest, bastardy, ... and at least one loving marriage. (Did I mention incest? Both consensual and non-consensual. If reading about that Austrian guy who held his daughter captive freaked you out, steer clear of these books because a significant NPC is very much "into" that sort of thing, much to the annoyance of one of the main heroes, who is Neutral Good when he is on his very worst behavior, so you may guess how that turns out.)
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 06 Nov 2008 07:22:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37013 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 01:14:33
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| Never touched it. My fantasy reading hasn't gone as far afield as I sometimes wish, though I am making an effort to branch out. The recent direction with the Realms has, unfortunately, made that much easier. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 05:09:12
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| Read them all. Great series... |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 06:19:00
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Me, too. I have all volumes in german translation. Unfortunately, every volume is split in two here in Germamy, so whenever a new one appears we have to wait twice, for the first half and for the second half to be published.
It is a great story, and I am eagerly awaiting the next book. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:10:12
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| Yeah I agree it's a pretty astounding series...and A Dance for Dragons has been taking forever to come out, but I also didnt think it was the last, for some reason i was under the impression he planned on writing seven books for the series...and yes it is far from Forgotten realms almost in a maturity way...no offense cuz i love the realms but instead of the typical the hero's always prevail and never die thing the realms have going on, characters are constantly dying in A Song of Ice and Fire, and there is sex and raping and well its just much more R rated...not that i require R rated but yeah...you know....anyways oh yeah i concur though its a fantastic series...I would greatly suggest it Wooly Rupert...you won't/wouldn't be disapointed. My cousin suggested it too me...along with Terry Goodkind(sp?) and Robert...wait...no...something Robert...some other other thats supposed to be good, but he lent me a book from each series, i had a house fire...and i only rebought the George Martin book so I dont know about the other too authors still... |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:31:35
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The last book was supposed to have been published last year, but he had too much material and planned to split it into two volumes ... which transmogrified into two huge novels instead of two halves of one book. I don't think his fans or his publisher are complaining.
These have been so good that I'm tempted to read his Star Wars novels when I finish F&R. Unfortunately those books are bound by all sorts of strictures and Martin is nothing if not a rule-breaker and taboo-smmasher when he is at his best. (If he'd written the original movie, I'm sure Darth Vader would have raped Princess Leia and that she would have then found comfort in the arms of Luke! I shudder to think what Han Solo and the wookie would have got up to if Martin had written the screenplay.)
If Hasbro had any sense they would hire him to write some D&D novels, but they don't, so I'm sure they won't.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:39:35
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| Your wealth of knowledge and intellectual opinion is greatly appreciated Kamallo Kreen, I liked how you described it, very accurate, I would hope it will influence some of out FR brethren to read it, cuz tis truly a spledid series. Also, any information on anexact release date because I go to George's official site but his last update was January 1st 08...and he said this fall probably, and it is fall, and I noticed you mentioned having a library hold you a copy or somethign of the sort? go on? does that mean its soon? cuz it's been like a bajillion years damn it. I'll have to reread the books to make up for all the information i've forgotten...OH! and have you or anyone else reading ever played the boardgame for said series?...it's not bad, seems like just a cheap attempt at making more money but its not actually bad, a friend of mine and I purchased it, and its like risk, but with much more...well strategy...lol and it doesnt take 6 years... |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3256 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 13:34:54
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I read the first book, but was deeply into Robert Jordan's (I believe that was the Robert you were searching for...) Wheel of Time series and couldn't bring myself to jump onto another multi-volume storyline. I actually got into the third or fourth book of Goodkind's Sword of Truth series, but I grew disenchanted when each book seemed to be that just after he saved the entire world from a big baddy, he finds out that the world is much bigger with a bigger baddy and has to go fight them.
One series that I do recommend is Tad William's four-book trilogy (the third volume was so large it had to be split into two books) Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. Not quite as mature as Martin's, but definitely above a PG-13.
And, if you're considering Jordan's books, wait a little while. He was in the process of completing the last volume (#12) when he passed away last year. Fortunately, he had very detailed notes and revealed the complete story to his family and friends 'just in case'. They hired Brandon Sanderson to complete the series, who is in the process of going through all the other books to get the 'voice' and tone of the story correct. So, probably should wait until the final volume is released so you're not waiting anxiously like the rest of us saps...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 17:29:45
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 22:46:01
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Thanks for the reading recommendation!
How do the Fire and Ice novels compare to the Thieves' World anthologies, both in quality and maturity of content? |
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Shottglazz
Acolyte
Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 14:51:31
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| IMO, much higher quality, and higher maturity level of content as well...not for easily offended readers or younger readers... |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, Take my land, Take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me." |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 07:19:58
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| indeed it is. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1736 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 10:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
The last book was supposed to have been published last year, but he had too much material and planned to split it into two volumes ... which transmogrified into two huge novels instead of two halves of one book. I don't think his fans or his publisher are complaining.
These have been so good that I'm tempted to read his Star Wars novels when I finish F&R. Unfortunately those books are bound by all sorts of strictures and Martin is nothing if not a rule-breaker and taboo-smmasher when he is at his best. (If he'd written the original movie, I'm sure Darth Vader would have raped Princess Leia and that she would have then found comfort in the arms of Luke! I shudder to think what Han Solo and the wookie would have got up to if Martin had written the screenplay.)
If Hasbro had any sense they would hire him to write some D&D novels, but they don't, so I'm sure they won't.
I've started Ice & Fire three times, each time with a paperback on vacation. Someone sees me reading it, inquires, and I give away my copy so they can read it. One of these days, I'll finish Book 1.
Of Martin's stuff, he's an interesting writer with a good grasp of genre. His earlier stuff is more horror-rooted, and I really enjoyed Fevre Dream and The Armageddon Rag a lot. Both of those were out of print for a while, but I think they're available again.
I'm not sure if I'm the best audience for his type of take-no-prisoners fantasy, though I loves me a good detailed world.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 15:28:27
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I've just begun "A Storm of Swords" (book three) and am thoroughly engrossed. It is an excellent series, one of the best I have read in years. A tough read, given the extreme brutality depicted, and most certainly for mature readers only. Martin has a knack for eliciting strong emotional responses from his readers, and I am actively hoping that some of the more despicable characters die horrible, horrible deaths. I also found myself tearing up when a major character died.
I don't think it's the kind of series that you MUST read in a fortnight, turning page after page until the wee hours, but I find myself returning to it time after time, still caring about the characters even after some time away from the novels.
Song of Ice and Fire is well worth the investment. Great hard fantasy.
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"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:31:03
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| I couldn't have said it better myself Brother Ezra :D |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:43:27
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Thank you very much, Genis! If my library is permitting orders that means that they have purchased it and the book is (or soon will be) available. I hope!
I like Steven's description of George R. R. Martin's style as "take no prisoners." It is very apt for this series. I run a low-fantasy Realms and a VERY gritty sword-and-sorcery Conan RPG campaign, and this series is quite inspritaional for me.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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evohound
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 02:24:00
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I too am eagerly awainting the next in the series. Love it.
Oh, and Well met. I guess I am no longer lurking. |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2008 : 07:01:36
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| Good Man! and Well Met. Lurking is dangerous in these parts. You won't gain insight and knowledge at candlekeep by merely lurking |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 07:36:53
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Hey, apparently I get to be the ground-breaking nay-sayer---cool, lol
I read the first 80 pages or so. Hated it, really---couldn't make myself go farther. A glimpse at the end (first book) only drove that feeling disgustingly deeper. Just my take on it :-1 The friend that recommended it has told me of some pretty cool-sounding ideas in it, and he DMd our D&D game in a homebrew world that was drawn mostly from those books, but I couldn't get past the writing itself to read farther.
I liked Wheel of Time well enough (except for certain characters and certain writer's quirks that really grew annoying over so many books, and the fact that I really didn't give much of a crap which side might end up winning except that I'd rather Mat and Perrin came out on top due to personal bias), until I bogged down in the dragged-out middle of the sixth book and never got around to picking it back up But I've had others tell me they ground to a halt in the same place, and that it got better when they made themselves go on from there. I'll get back to it one of these days....and just hope a certain female main character dies horribly even though I know from a friend that she won't....
One of my absolute favorite fantasy works will ALWAYS be David Eddings' Belgariad/Malloreon cycles. Marvelous characters, beautiful storytelling, and a wonderfully-described world (and while disgusting things certainly go on, you don't get detailed, unneeded descriptions of the bodily fluids involved, only accounts of how it affects things in the people and world). That series embodies much of my personal tastes in fantasy 
David B. Coe's Winds of the Forelands series was overall really good, IMO. Low fantasy medieval with great power-play and subversion, assassination and framing, hatred and redemption, gritty battles and wonderful character interplay, and a masterful, continuing build-up from start to finish like a gathering and finally bursting storm (and BOY is it worth the wait when it finally bursts). I so need to start the sequel series, now that a couple of the books are out..... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 23 Nov 2008 07:46:30 |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 06:09:28
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| wh-wh-wh-wh-whaaaat?! lol that's crazy...but to each their own I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it Mr. Laer. But I plan on reading a Wheel of Time one of these years, so as long as its more or less be recommended by you, sort of, and others in this thread, it gives me more reason to aye! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2008 : 21:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
The last book was supposed to have been published last year, but he had too much material and planned to split it into two volumes ... which transmogrified into two huge novels instead of two halves of one book. I don't think his fans or his publisher are complaining.
These have been so good that I'm tempted to read his Star Wars novels when I finish F&R. Unfortunately those books are bound by all sorts of strictures and Martin is nothing if not a rule-breaker and taboo-smmasher when he is at his best. (If he'd written the original movie, I'm sure Darth Vader would have raped Princess Leia and that she would have then found comfort in the arms of Luke! I shudder to think what Han Solo and the wookie would have got up to if Martin had written the screenplay.)
If Hasbro had any sense they would hire him to write some D&D novels, but they don't, so I'm sure they won't.
I totally agree. I love this series and at the same time it Pi$$es me off. Very good exercise for your reading muscles!
I would love to see him do FR stuff, but there is no way, with how he hits/missses deadlines that he could be shoehorned into 4e FR, he might be ready to print by 6e , who knows! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Anyone read the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series
