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barry
Acolyte
South Africa
27 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Aug 2003 : 19:32:40
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In the F/realms setting the the badies such has halaster, lolock and prob. some others such the high prince of shade have superior wisdom and intelligence,spellcrft or will than the POWERFUL chosen .These attributes alone should be enough that they are more than a match for the simbul or el. for eg how was halaster defeated easily when trying to save el? why have they placed loloch in the realms if he is not mentioned at all or featured as a real threat? what are the true powers of the high price and are his sons not all powerfull as they are over 1700 yrs old.
PLESE IF TROY DENNING IS OUT THEIR PLEASE GIVE ME THESE AWNSWERS AND I AND OTHER WILL BE HAPPY OR MR EL HIMSELF
THIS IS A "REAL WORLD" AND AS SUCH SHOULD BE TREATED WITH SOME OF THE VICIOUSNESS THAT HAPPENS ON EARTH
WE LIKE THE CHOSEN ,BUT KILL SOME OF THEM PLEASE!!!!!
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2003 : 20:47:34
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| So true i hope one of them dies, they are cool but they are not gods |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2003 : 15:16:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
barry said -
quote:
WE LIKE THE CHOSEN ,BUT KILL SOME OF THEM PLEASE!!!!!
Are there any in particular that you do not like?. Can you please elaborate?.
Going to start a Chosen dead pool?  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2003 : 19:17:06
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| I think, unfortunately, that Alustrial would be the next logical one to go, after expending all of her strength to repel a huge threat to the Silver Marches (the confederation would need time to get situated after her demise, after all). And its not as if no Sister has ever died before... |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2003 : 09:54:45
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I sincerely hope that Alustriel does not suffer that fate...I always thought that she and Drizzt need to get together....
Anyway...
I honestly believe that FR will knock off the Great Elminster quite soon. If you look at the 3rd Faerun Handbook, they make a great many references to Elminster's "aging" as of late....even senility (sp - as in senile). I believe these are clues to his long overdue rest...
And I think that is time for a few to go.....make way for some less-than-nigh-omnipotent characters to shake things about a bit. Elminster seems to have too many ways to defy death - even for a Chosen. In the words of Tolkien - "A wizard should no better", and I think Elminster is eventually going to expire, become a deity or spirit or something less mortal...
Besides.....it makes for a great story...maybe a MALE god of magic for once...........(somewhere, Azuth is holding up his hand meekly and whining "what about me???")
;) |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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barry
Acolyte
South Africa
27 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2003 : 18:21:49
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None of the chosen have died yet, but i think i would have to be the one that is a dark elf as we do not know her and so i think have has not become "likeable" and maybe alustriel and she had betten go down with a bang.
Again i ask what is the relationship between the characters in the books and their description in the capainge setting? does it reflect their true powers or just for the gamers? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2003 : 05:54:28
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quote:
Originally posted by barry
None of the chosen have died yet, but i think i would have to be the one that is a dark elf as we do not know her and so i think have has not become "likeable" and maybe alustriel and she had betten go down with a bang.
Actually, the oldest of the Seven Sisters, Sylune perished some time ago, right before the Time of Troubles I believe, although she's still around in some form.  Additionally, I don't know what you mean when you say Qilue, the drow of the Seven Sisters is not known to us. She's been featured in novels, supplements, the Seven Sisters chosen. Additionally, the rest of the sisters now clearly now of her existence. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "we do not know her?" |
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Chris_flamehand
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 05:44:22
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| With the book Elminster' Daughter coming out in may it looks like Elminster will probably be the next chosen to die. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 16:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris_flamehand
With the book Elminster' Daughter coming out in may it looks like Elminster will probably be the next chosen to die.
I just don't see WOTC letting go of that character. Have you heard/seen any hints to make you suspect this possibility? |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 02:20:16
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Commercially, companies don't delete elements of their own intellectual property that make them money.
Realistically, it's unlikely that someone who's lived for hundreds of years should perish in the brief period encompassed by the 'current' timeline.
Artistically, Elminster is, more than a mere character, and more crucially than as a protagonist, a symbol of lore and of love. His end would be cruel and needless. Yet seeds of his waning have long been planted. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 01:26:46
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| It would be a shame if Elminster was "killed off", so to speak, but Barry, what do you want to know about Qilue Veladorn? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 16:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
It would be a shame if Elminster was "killed off", so to speak, but Barry, what do you want to know about Qilue Veladorn?
I know she suffered a great deal of tragedy in Windwalker. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 19:59:33
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While it does seem that the seeds of Elminster's passing have been sowed, nothing is quick in coming when it comes to the Old Mage. If he is dying then it will likely take a few centuries for him to finally pass on. As far as any of the Seven Sister dying, I do not see it anytime in the near future. All of them have their niches of importance which they fill, and as long as they remain important and useful they will remain alive. Frankly, to kill any of the Seven Sister or Elminster is not something is likely to happen at all, since they are such important figures in the Realms.
The comment made by Barry about Larloch not doing anything is very amusing. Generally, liches like Larloch (well they really are not any like Larloch) are not interested in ruling others or interfering with the course of events in the Realms, rather they spend their time expanding their magical powers and gaining new knowledge. Its not that liches do not want power, they just tend not to care about bothering with mortals anymore, and go about gathering knowledge and magic and studying things far off. When liches do want to influence things, they tend to go about like the Twisted Rune, subtly and behind the scenes. It is bad business for a lich to make his existance public since there are many who want to slay them. So, they hang out in the shadows and tug on teh strings of events.
Also, Halaster will never die, since the Undermountain cannot function without him, and there will always be an Undermountain on Faerun. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 18:06:17
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| I could see the Simbul dying, after her battles to save El. Wasn't there some mention of a price for doing so? |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 19:16:08
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| I hope she dies all those people joining togeter to kill her and still she lives. Is there no justice. |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 09:20:52
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My own person feeling is that I would like to see some of the Chosen die. Simply because I find mortal characters more interesting and find those immortal uber-characters lacking depth in anything but fighting. How can you have a sense of fear or struggle to develop when you can’t really die? Even as mentioned Sylune died but yet she lives as a ghost and still has a great deal ability and influence. (Now Chosen are like Jedi?) I found the death of Wulfgar and its effect on the company greatly entertaining (his return was far less interesting for me). As a player and a human being I can relate to those things (having lost friends in both the game and real world), yet I feel so much less for these paragons of power known as the Chosen. I liked all of those characters much more in the original gray box of the realms before they vaulted to become demi-gods. The problem is the realms have escalated from their humble beginnings to a Diablo style need for bigger & badder villains and bigger & badder NPCs. Some people have said the game and the novels are different entities, but I disagree. Take for example Azoun’s death (which I felt was a good one and furthered the realms timeline considerably). Look what it took to bring it about, an abnormal dragon (by game standards) and some really uber-powerful beings (ghazneths) that could effectively counter all the war-wizards and magic buffed troops built up by D&D concepts.
Elminster is the icon of the Realms and I would not want to see him go. Take any other. (If I had my choice it would be Storm Silverhand, I have not liked her since she displayed such overzealous anger and biased arrogance during the time of troubles saga, but that is just my own bias showing through.)
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 14:58:24
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| Chyron, I quite agree with you, especially about Storm. However, like you said, Chosens are uber-characters so who are you going to find to be able to kill a god-protected person? Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:08:24
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There is always someone better...
I'd like to see some fighting between the chosen of different gods. That way it would be easy to get rid of some chosen. Anyway, Qilue should stay, she is the most interensting one.
And if all else falls, maybe Larloch could help?   |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:22:45
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Storm and other NPCs are infamously depicted out of character in the Avatar trilogy (through unrevealed narrator bias rather than author error, per Jim Lowder). You couldn't pick a more misleading source about Storm.
As for some of the rest of those ideas, I don't know where to start. |
Edited by - Faraer on 28 Apr 2004 16:23:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:26:45
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I, personally, don't have a problem with the Chosen of Mystra as characters.
The problem is that first TSR and then WotC decided to focus on them, and to use them as the FR's answer to superheroes.
From everything I've read from Ed and elsewhere, it is my impression that the Chosen were never intended to act in such a manner. I, certainly, would never use them as such.
I think the intended use of the Chosen was as flavor more than anything else. Using them as flavor or a plot device is one thing, but I'd not really use them for anything else.
For example, if some adventurers find their way into the Promenade, then they have a reasonable chance of encountering Qilué. And perhaps she has some delicate mission that needs to be done, and she would prefer that her drow not be involved... That I could see.
Using the Chosen as superheroes ("the evil wizard is advancing on you, cackling madly the whole time. Lightning bolts dance in his hands, and raw energy flashes from his eyes. Suddenly, Elminster teleports into the room, appearing behind your opponent.") is not the correct use for them. Nor do I believe they should serve as punching bags for high-level characters. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Narad Bladesinger
There is always someone better...
I'd like to see some fighting between the chosen of different gods. That way it would be easy to get rid of some chosen. Anyway, Qilue should stay, she is the most interensting one.
And if all else falls, maybe Larloch could help?
Originally, only one deity had Chosen. The only reason other deities have Chosen is because someone thought it'd be a cool idea. Personally, I don't like that. We know why Mystra has Chosen, but why do these other deities need Chosen?
And Larloch is unlikely to make any moves against the Chosen, nor they any against him. I don't recall the exact reference, but I seem to recall that Mystra is intrigued by Larloch's doings -- after all, she's all about spell research, and he's doing plenty of that.
He's not a threat unless you go looking for trouble. So no one has a reason to try to take him down.
And if he attacked a Chosen of Mystra, this would prolly tweak off the goddess. And would you want to be a spellcaster with the goddess of magic mad at you? This is not a career-enhancing maneuver. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:40:47
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| Imagine that it was Mirt who got the multi-book series and 'iconic' promotion. We'd see him adventure across the Realms, thwarting threats to Waterdeep time and again, living beyond his natural years, oft-times escaping death to fight again, as is the nature of fictional heroes. It obviously would not be true that Mirt was an 'übercharacter' whose power had inflated and who made PCs unnecessary. Just so for the characters TSR did decide to fetishize. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 18:29:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, don't have a problem with the Chosen of Mystra as characters.
The problem is that first TSR and then WotC decided to focus on them, and to use them as the FR's answer to superheroes.
From everything I've read from Ed and elsewhere, it is my impression that the Chosen were never intended to act in such a manner. I, certainly, would never use them as such.
I think the intended use of the Chosen was as flavor more than anything else. Using them as flavor or a plot device is one thing, but I'd not really use them for anything else.
For example, if some adventurers find their way into the Promenade, then they have a reasonable chance of encountering Qilué. And perhaps she has some delicate mission that needs to be done, and she would prefer that her drow not be involved... That I could see.
Using the Chosen as superheroes ("the evil wizard is advancing on you, cackling madly the whole time. Lightning bolts dance in his hands, and raw energy flashes from his eyes. Suddenly, Elminster teleports into the room, appearing behind your opponent.") is not the correct use for them. Nor do I believe they should serve as punching bags for high-level characters.
I agree with you on that. Chosens or powerful characters should only be used to start your adventure, maybe as the guide throughout the adventure but he or she shouldn't be coming in to save your hide everytime you drop near 0 HP. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 20:01:07
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something that has happened to my players is that by hearing the reputation of the realms NPC's they think that every ruler, or important npc is lvl 20 or over with templates and magic items which could anihilate them if they look the wrong way.
Mystra went to a Lot of trouble to create her chosen an so should the other deities.
Perhaps a Chosen is the only thing strong enough to kill another 
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 22:42:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SoulLord
Mystra went to a Lot of trouble to create her chosen an so should the other deities.
Yeah, but she had a specific purpose in mind. The Chosen of Mystra exist as a sort of balancing effect on and for Mystra. Mystra is the most powerful goddess, so the Chosen exist not only as her tools, but also as repositories of some of her might. It has been that way for centuries, since some time after Mystryl was slain and the first Mystra was born.
IMO, other deities might have a need for favored champions, but nothing on par with a Chosen of Mystra. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 00:08:30
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| Rupert's right. The Chosens created by other gods (ex. Fzoul Chembyrl) are only used to further their influence and power in the Realms. None of them have the original idea in mind as Mystra did. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 00:12:21
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| Hmm... even if they don't admit to it, I'd say that both Mystra and Bane establish Chosens for the same reason: if they die, some of there essence is stored somewhere to allow for a "reboot" later on. That's what Bane did through Xvim; that's what Mystra did with Midnight... |
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jebeddo
Seeker
Canada
69 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 22:08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hmm... even if they don't admit to it, I'd say that both Mystra and Bane establish Chosens for the same reason: if they die, some of there essence is stored somewhere to allow for a "reboot" later on. That's what Bane did through Xvim; that's what Mystra did with Midnight...
Well, technically the old Mystra didn't turn Midnight into a living shell of her return. Frankly, I doubt she even know that Midnight's going to become the next Goddess of Magic anyways... |
"Only half-orcs rush in where devas fear to tread." |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 02:25:56
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That's because Mystra was hoping to be allowed 'home' (so to speak) when she got her info and wasn't expecting Helm to blast her into little sparkly bits...
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Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm |
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The power ot the chosen in their character discrip
