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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 12:30:39
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Ok,
according to my addition to knowledge referring the goblinoid races in the realms, I would like to start a scroll which summons all canon / official information on these races ( Goblin, Hobgoblin / Koalinth, Bugbear, underdark variations etc. )
Also, as stated in anothe post, I am wondering why the goblin races have never been able to form a sort of serious threat for any civilized nation ( except the Grodd Goblins, but they are not "really" from the realms ) in the last 1000 years of the realms history.
Eventually this is worth asking ED??
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 15:01:41
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LOL
thanks capnvan.
Now, seriously, what is the knowledge we can get together here?
I will put the question in ED's scroll. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 18:34:30
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| I read over my own notes on the subject and found I am so out of it with canon that I am of little help here. But the best sources in canon I can think of are Elminsters Ecologies, and Races of Faerun, there are some things in Drizzt Do Urdens guide to the Underdark too. Monster Mythologyand The Complete book of Humanoidsare good for general background of the species. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4260 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 19:00:30
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I've thought about this myself, and the only conclusion I've ever come to is that Goblins Kingdoms have failed simply because the orcs and goblins compete for some of the same spaces.
Perhaps the problem is that Orc Hordes attack more than human and elven realms. Since Goblins aren't great record keepers; it could be that they haven't ever left record of their wars against orcs.
Just a thought. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 20:01:32
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thanks guys,
The Hooded One has just answered the question I put in Ed's scroll.
With this explanation, it makes a lot more sense in General, and considering the realmslore article from april 2000 it states the following for the goblinoid races focused around their pantheon:
Nomog Geaya:
In the fallen dwarven kingdom of Holorarar
deep beneath the Clovis Fields of Tethyr, long ago conquered by
hobgoblins, the Grim Lord Gronyabok leads the largest and most
impressive temple in, and under, the Realms dedicated to the Unsmiling
One. The temple, the Altar of the Grim One, occupies the entirety of an
enormous cavern (1000 feet long with a ceiling at least 500 feet above
the floor) at the center of the underground hobgoblin nation. Dominated
by an gigantic unsmiling statue of the Grim One carved from the living
stone at the south end of the cavern, the huge temple's floor is, not
surprisingly, large enough for an army to practice war maneuvers. The
highly trained hobgoblin armies have become the terror of surrounding
Underdark populations, and no one near Halorarar dares to defy the will
of the hobgoblin state.
Maglubiyet:
Major Centers of Worship: Among the Orsraun Mountains northwest of
Turmish lies the holiest site for the faith of Maglubiyet. Here, in a
cave overlooking a wide valley, goblin legends relate that centuries (or
millennia) ago, Fire-Eyes himself appeared in person, gathering together
the Orsraun's goblin and hobgoblin tribes, and leading them an orgy of
conquest of destruction. Whether or not there is truth behind this
legend, since time immemorial, the cave has been considered the holiest
temple to the Overlord's worship. Its most notable feature is the Seat
of Maglubiyet, a throne carved out of the living stone of the cave.
Legends relate that it was created by Fire-Eyes himself during his first
sojourn here, and only those considered worthy to lead the goblins in
the area may sit upon it. When a goblin or hobgoblin leader dares to
sit upon the throne, he is engulfed in flames; if he is judged worthy by
the Overlord, he is unharmed and even feels invigorated and sanctified
by the experience. Woe to those considered unworthy; they are slowly
roasted alive by the flames and die in hideous agony. Needless to say,
of the hundreds who have tried over the centuries, only a handful have
survived the experience.
Interestingly enough, the hobgoblin warlord Glorghol had just sat
in the seat at the moment the gods fell and the Time of Troubles began.
Glorghol became the host of Maglubiyet's avatar, who immediately began
gathering together the various goblin tribes of the Orsraun Mountains,
and then led them away from the Cave of the Throne to parts unknown. It
is rumored that he was leading them against his mortal enemy Gruumsh,
but no goblins have yet returned from wherever they were led. Whatever
their fate may have been, the result has been a dramatic (but given
goblin fertility, temporary) drop in the goblin population in the area,
much to the relief of isolated settlements in the mountains and
surrounding areas.
Khurgorbaeyag
Major Centers of Worship: In the center of the Goblin Marches, at the
epicenter of centuries of internecine warfare between innumerable goblin
tribes, the Slavemaster's Hall has grown rich on the lucrative slave
trade. High Slavemaster Hurogoyag has the uncanny knack (given to him
by Khurgorbaeyag himself it is rumored) of being on the winning side of
the unending battles in the Marches, resulting in he and his followers
gaining innumerable prisoners. Long ago, they exceeded the maximum
capacity needed for their own everyday needs, so Hurogoyag, after
contacting one of the Zhentish caravans moving through the area, began
trading the excess to the Zhentarim for substantial profits. The trade
benefits both sides; the Zhentarim gain an inexhaustible source of
slaves and Hurogoyag has become immensely wealthy and powerful (not to
mention gaining some very useful allies).
Bargrivyek:
Major Centers of Worship: Under the Greypeak Mountains, near the
headwaters of the River Loagrann, several goblin tribes have unified
under the aegis of Grand Adjudicator Morgho and his Temple of the
Unifier. As a result of Morgho's intensive campaign to resolve the
outstanding disputes between the tribes, they have unified into a
cohesive and motivated fighting force, and have rapidly pushed out all
competing sentient creatures from this section of the mountains. Morgho
is wise enough not to overextend his forces, and is currently
consolidating his people's recent conquests. Once he is secure, he
plans to extend his reach even further, possibly even out onto the
surface, where he hears there are human cities ripe for the picking (a
plan, which implemented properly, will come as quite a nasty shock to
the population of Llorkh and the Zhentarim!). In order to gather
important information, he has sent out spies into the surrounding areas,
including his highly intelligent brother Dogo, who has duped an
adventuring party passing through the mountains to adopt him as a sort
of cute mascot, when in reality he is using them in order to gather
further intelligence.
I would simply LOVE to hear anything about these strongholds in the bit more recent history of the realms.
Will the goblin marshes finally be united under the slavers-Whip?
Will the Hobgoblins of Holorarar emerge in full, to conquer their share of the surface wolrd?
Is a new warlord sitting on the throne of Maglubiyet?
Did the great adjucator finally make its move against llorkh or the surrounding are?
These are just the bits I have found, and which I would love to see furthered.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4260 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 22:27:20
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I'm thinking someone LOVES goblins! 
Here is a goblin for ya Jakuta:
SKLEK "THE SLY"
Sklek is perhaps the most dangerous goblin ever known. His entire life has been in the pursuit of great treasures, which he hides away in caches all over the Moonsea; often right under the snout of some fell beast. Above all, Sklek hates nearly any and all other races, especially his own. Even more than goblins (who he ironically considers weak and pathetic) he hates elves and often hunts them. The only race Sklek gives any measure of respect to are the Drow; and this race only because he arose from the depths of a Dark Elf city. He has never disclosed this place, but has made it clear to some few that were it not for the Drow; the world would have no Sklek to curse it with his fearsome and deadly steps (can you say ego trip?). He would still attempt to kill Drow Elves, but only in contract most likely; and then with utmost caution.
Sklek can be contracted to kill someone, but this is rarely how he makes his fortunes that he hides away. He has for many years simply sought out those famous for gathering great treasures, stalked them, studied them, and then slaughtered them to take their treasures. It is for this reason that he has so many magical items to call his own, simply because he has killed so many minor adventuring bands “in the wilds” that he has gathered untold numbers of trivial magics he can access depending on what land he is in.
Sklek does not simply hunt targets, he destroys them. He will cause them to come into addiction, cause friendships and loves to fall away, frame them for crimes or any other means to emotionally and mentally destroy a foe before he ever thinks of drawing a poison tipped dagger against them. Whatever means are required to make them weak before he kills them and takes whatever treasure they have that he desires are the tools of Sklek “The Sly” of Thar.
Others do indeed sometimes secure his services, but none know in truth that they are hiring Sklek the Goblin Assassin. Instead, they think they are hiring the assassin known as Morkskyder; also known as “Ol’ Black-Iron” to dwarves of the Moonsea. Said to be an exiled dwarf of Tethyamar, in truth this dwarf existed until about ten years ago. Grown old and feeble, skulking the streets of Melvaunt and sleeping in whatever dive he could afford, Sklek found him and his reputation very useful. Using his various magical means, Sklek befriended the now nearly senile old dwarf and eventually killed him after gaining all the knowledge he could about the man; thus gaining his most favored treasure: the dagger also known as Morkskyder. Then, to give new life to the legend of Morkskyder, Sklek went on an assassination spree around the Moonsea; killing wealthy merchants and even wizards (Morkskyder’s favored work was against wizards) he left the dwarf’s signature trade-mark: a black iron dagger shoved through both eyes.
Certain powerful individuals around the Moonsea and in Sembia sometimes secure the services of Morkskyder, but this is honestly rare. Sklek is satisfied to simply allow this charade to continue without suspicion upon him. He kills for treasure, leaves the trademark signature of Morkskyder and thus allows others to believe that some enemy has hired an assassin. Since Morkskyder is dead, it is even hard to find out much about this now seemingly ghostly dwarven assassin. Thus, Sklek goes on hoarding treasure without anyone suspecting him…or even truly knowing he exists. This suites the deceptive goblin supremely as he wishes at all costs to avoid any conflict he has not instigated.
SKLEK'S STATISTICS
Neutral Evil Goblin Rogue 5, Fighter 4, Assassin 3
36 years old, 3’5” tall and 43 lbs, black hair and blackish-red skin
Original Stats: 12-20-14-16-13-12
Current Stats: 16-22-14-16-13-12
Hit Points: 91
Armor Class: 23 (+6 Armor, +6 dex, +1 Size) OR 26 (with Buckler +2)
Saving Throws: F-10, R-16, W-6
Attacks: +18/+13 w/+2 Keen Assassin’s Dagger of Subtlety 1d4+5 (17-20x2 Crit)
OR +22/+17 on Sneak Attacks for 1d4+9 (17-20x2 Crit) +5d6 Sneak Attack Dice
OR +22 on Death Attack for 1d4+9 (17-20x2 Crit) +5d6 (+poison) if save vs Death Attack DC 17 made
OR +16/+11 w/+2 Keen Assassin’s Dagger of Subtlety 1d4+5 (17-20x2 Crit)
AND +15 w/+1 Returning Dagger of Wounding 1d4+4 (19-20x2 Crit)
OR Many other variables; but these are favorites
Special Abilities: Infravision 60 ft., Poison Use, +1 to Saves vs. Poison, Sneak Attack +5d6, Improved Uncanny Dodge (vs. 8th lvl), Death Attack DC 16 (17 w/Black Iron, his Dagger), Evasion, Trapfinding, Trap Sense +1
Skill Modifiers: Balance 8, Bluff 16, Climb 12, Diplomacy 5, Disable Device 9, Disguise 6 (8 while Acting In Character), Escape Artist 12, Gather Information 9, Hide 26, Intimidate 13, Jump 10, Knowledge Local: Moonsea 8, Listen 6, Move Silently 26, Open Lock 15, Perform: Act 6, Profession: Merchant 3, Ride 12, Search 8, Sense Motive 6, Spot 6, Tumble 11, Use Magic Device 13
Flaws: Cautious (-2 Initiative and twice as long to carry out non-combat actions) and Cowardly (Auto Fails Fear Saving Throws/IF an effect gives immunity to fear, gains only save vs Fear at -4)
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Quick Draw, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse and Whirlwind Attack.
Magic Items: Hat of Disguise, Mask of Mirrors (May cast Mirror Image at 5th lvl 3xday), Amulet of Stoneskin (DR 10/Adamantine: 97 Pts), Cloak of the Darkhidden (wearer can’t be seen by Infravision), Gloves of the Balanced Hands (Gives Two-Weapon Fighting Feat), Bracers of Shielding (as amulet: 89 Pts), +2 Mithril Chain Shirt of Silent Shadows (+5 to Move Silently and Hide), Vest of Escape, Girdle of Giant Strength +4, Boots of Striding and Springing, Rings of: Resistance (+2 Saves), Mind Shielding, Invisibility, Blinking and Feather Falling, Darkwood Buckler +2, “Stirge” (+1 Returning Dagger of Wounding), “Morkskyder” (Black-Iron: +2 Assassin’s Keen Dagger of Subtlety) and dozens of varieties of potions, poisons, scrolls and drugs to use both on himself and enemies.
Languages: Common, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin and Orc
Spells per day (1st/2nd): 3/1
Spell DC: 13 + Spell Level
Spells Known: 1st: Disguise Self, Obscuring Mist, True Strike; 2nd: Cat’s Grace & Fox’s Cunning
Other Possessions: Sklek owns apartments in many cities around the Moonsea and Sembia, a special wagon (for his Tinker Disguise named Joldeuce), various hidden caches of gear and minor magic (potions, scrolls, etc) all around the Moonsea, the Dales and Sembia, nearly any common goods needed for any situation, etc.
SKLEK IN YOUR GAME
Sklek can come into contact with a party in many ways. His various identities make him valuable to many people in many places. He maintains a network of unrelated contacts that know only of him (in various guises); and even those who may work on the same street in Zhentil Keep for/with him would not know they worked with the same person.
For low level groups that have angered lower level operations of the Zhentarim or some merchant lord’s wider ranging interests, Sklek could put into motion minor operations against them such as goblin attacks or hired thugs who attack them when they feel safest in a town. He could also be contacted directly by the party to help them in one of his many guises; which could result in him manipulating them into doing work for him against someone “evil” that deserves it. Most likely Sklek is manipulating the party into killing someone he wants removed so he can recover some item of interest or treasure.
Mid-level groups could come into contact with Sklek when he is dispatched to destroy them in one manner or another. Again at this level though, he could have become a very reliable source of information, items or even work for the party; but always in some other guise. He could also come after a particular character (or the entire group with the proper manipulations) as his Morkskyder persona.
At higher levels, Sklek would avoid at all costs any direct confrontation with a party unless the utmost planning had been done. Since he rarely works with others, he would only attack those most vulnerable to his Death Attack; meaning those with low Fortitude Saving Throws (such as elven wizards or non-combatant characters). He would do so in a place of his choosing and manipulation: such as a lover’s encounter, while bathing, toileting, or some other non-heroic time when the character is most vulnerable.
Sklek should only be used to attempt the assassination of a character if you truly intend their death…his plans would be the most devious you could concoct and he would only implement a plan that you are most sure would succeed. If possible, he would try to ensure that his target might even consider him a friend…or at least someone trustworthy.
Over all, remember that Sklek is very disciplined and plotting, but in essence cowardly. He is capable in combat, but prefers to hit and run. Only when he is sure that a second round of combat would get him the kill he is after will he even consider doing more than killing and fleeing. Following are some of Sklek’s favored tactics; both in and out of combat.
Non-Combat:
1. Drugs, followed by poisons. Sklek will find some way to get a character addicted to a drug the character at first finds to be useful to them; and he will make sure one of his contacts makes sure it is as cheap as is reasonably believable. Such drugs as make wizards more powerful, warriors more able to deal damage and etc. After a while, and right when Sklek wants to strike, poison will be introduced to these drugs in a manner that the user thinks they are simply over-dosed.
2. Love, followed by broken-hearts. Sklek will use magical means to ensure someone the character is interested in enters a love relationship with them. To make sure the ending pain is as much as possible, Sklek will allow this relationship to blossom as much as possible; perhaps even spending his personal efforts and money to make sure the relationship seems especially blessed. Then, when everything is “perfect” Sklek will cause the worst thing possible to happen. The person is turned into some undead abomination that must be killed, the love will spurn and hate the character, or the love interest will turn into a vicious enemy. Perhaps Sklek frames the character for the death of someone the love is very fond of (like parents, siblings, etc.). Just the worst possible thing you can think of…because Sklek has a purely evil mind of twisted hatred, but at the same time a keen awareness of how vulnerable people are to these emotions.
3. Blackmail, followed by ruination. Most often used on contracted targets, Sklek loves to tear someone apart socially as well as emotionally. He will either dig for something or create something that can be used against a character. Either through manipulation of a character’s actions (accidentally killing someone through Sklek’s manipulations) or planting of false evidence. In extreme cases the character may be put on trial and executed in this way; or perhaps exiled from their home. Once brought to this state, Sklek would then either arrange for the character’s death, or deal it himself when he is sure the character is alone in the world without a single friend to go to for aid.
4. VERY rarely, Sklek will appear to a group as a lowly goblin; his magic items secreted somewhere safe. In these instances, he will still carry a weapon and poisons, but his goal is to worm his way into a groups good graces somehow. He plays the fool and coward in such encounters; groveling, sniveling, begging and even crying are not beyond his abilities in such situations. This encounter usually follows his setting up some poor tribe of goblins for slaughter by the party, and Sklek finding the party after they have finished looting the lair of the hapless victims. He pleads with them to be able to serve them, perfectly willing to change his ways, pleading that he was forced to do things he didn’t want to do. Offering the party his knowledge of whatever area they are in…and dangling a prize before them: some powerful nearby creature that has a nice treasure he knows they would want. His eventual goal is to be able to work with the party and learn things from them. He will play the part of the reformed goblin until such time as he has no further use of the party and then move on; but ensuring the party thinks him dead. Having learned their intimate habits, he will later return and murder at his leisure those who once took “pity” on him. NEVER will he undertake this method unless there are kindly members in a party who he can play on.
Combat Uses:
1. Using whatever means he can, Sklek will get as close as possible to the physically weakest member of a party…especially if nobody else is around. If in a friendly setting, usually a lone meeting with someone needing something from one of his identities, he will use his Quick Draw feat to draw forth a poison tipped Morkskyder and stab his target. If he gains initiative the next round (which he should) he will again stab his target with Morkskyder, and if they are an easy hit (meaning low AC) he will also use a poison tipped Stirge as well. This works best if the target is perhaps buying drugs from one of his identities and their guard is down because they are so “familiar” with Sklek’s chosen persona.
2. Catching a target alone (but someone too powerful for him to face alone perhaps) Sklek will arrange for them to be attacked by others (bandits, thugs, monsters, etc) and he will quickly attempt their death from range and then escape. His favored method here is to launch a poison tipped Stirge, followed quickly by two other thrown masterwork daggers (also poisoned) while the target has some space around them. Alternatively, Sklek will test the character’s ability and allow the hired minions (again through some alternate identity) to be slaughtered. If they somehow manage to injure his target enough, he will then move in and execute a more direct attempt at killing his foe.
3. If engaged in direct combat with few options, Sklek will rely on his ability to absorb damage to ignore melee attackers and seek the death of spell casters; especially wizards or sorcerers. Using his Improved Feint ability coupled with Quick Draw he will use poison-tipped masterwork daggers to cripple casters as quickly as possible. Moving through the battle area with is Mobility and Spring Attack he seeks to do as much damage as possible with one shot poisoned dagger attacks until he can find a way to escape the encounter. More than anything, Sklek dreads being pinned in a “to the death” encounter and will try any means possible to escape. He always carries potions and such that will allow him to fly, vanish by Dimension Door, or whatever other sneaky means of disengaging you can think of.
4. Sklek loves poisoned daggers. If he can, he will use a nearly endless barrage of them to cripple a party…feel free to assume he can afford LOTS of poison. If he encounters an individual who seems too resistant to poison, he will rarely go all out in combat and try to lay them low in a barrage of sneak attacks that will deal as much damage as possible. Remember: Sklek can Assassinate the first round (average damage if the Death Attack is avoided is 26 Hit Points!) and follow that up by a second round of most likely more Sneak Attacks on a flat-footed opponent (again for an average of 26 Hit Points Damage per attack). Potentially, the nasty fellow can deal out an average of 78 Hit Points damage only using his dagger Morkskyder before his target is even able to act! This is usually more than enough to kill most characters.
5. Whirlwind Sneak Attacks! Using his Whirlwind Attack coupled with Sneak Attack, Sklek can deal awful damage to a group of foes. He will sometimes use his Death Attack on a foe, and if that nearly kills them, he will use Whirlwind Attack on that same target and anyone near that character the following round.
Above all, try to remember that Sklek is motivated by both greed and hatred of others; tempered strongly by his overwhelming cowardice. He is nasty and confident, however; his cowardice has only made him extremely efficient to ensure his own survival. This character was inspired in part by J.R.R. Tolkien’s Gollum; but other inspirations were the “smart Goblin” in the movie Legend, a friend of mine who loved to play Goblins (and did so very well), as well as my children’s driving desire to hear me talk like a squeaky goblin named Krutz. His cunning and vileness, however, were strictly of my own imagination…such as his disturbing habit of taking the hearts of fallen enemies so that he can cook them and eat them (but only if they were killed in a manner that this wouldn’t look odd). He is above all a disgusting and greedy monster wrapped up in a little goblin.
I hope you find a good use for him! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 08:17:11
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| There was a powerful hobgoblin realm in Impiltur 250 years ago, and today there are signs of its possible revival. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 14:17:02
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Quale,
have you got the source for this at hand, sounds interesting. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 14:34:30
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| Off the top of my head: Champions of Ruin, Champions of Valor, and Dragon Magazine #345. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 17:00:29
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A long time after it, but Races of Stone had me stumble over a prestige class that stirred all my conspirace thoughts again:
The Stonedeath Assassin.
A prestige class that is favored by Hobgoblins.
So, given this prestige class and its opportunities, I think Hobgoblins and their kind are far ahead of what all of us think right now.
With this prestige class, no dwarven hold in the mountains is secure, nor is any of the massive stone-fortresses of the humans.
again, myriads of opportunities... I love it |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 17:02:52
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Great find.
Now you have me thinking I need to go through 2e's Complete Book of Humanoids again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 18:33:33
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will do the same.
But seriously, this PC opens up whole new dimensions for conspiracy of the hobgobs. |
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Goblinoid Races in the Realms
