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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:29:45
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Okay, I finally found my copy of Horselords. I went to do a favor for my Ex - some wiring in the attic - and discovered it behind and under some stuff (which is no wonder I missed it when I moved out).
So, I found something I desperately needed while doing a favor for someone I greatly dislike - karma at its finest. 
ANYHOW... I am SO glad I waited to complete my Hordelands project (with the book missing), because I don't think I have EVER read a novel with more pure lore then this one.
Whenever I re-read a novel, I fold-down a page corner to mark useful lore (usually geographic references in my case), but I soon found I was bending-back nearly every single page! The few pages that don't contain at least one piece of local lore is vastly out numbered by the pages that contain several pieces of information!
I can't give you anything specific - not home right now so the 'correlating the data' part can't be done yet, but I now have names for Tuigan Bards, Khazari wizards, geographic references, tons of historic minutia, ect, ect...
Did you know Mother Bayalun was half-Maraloi? 
In the Kara-Tur boxed-set, they are referred to as as 'a legend' - nothing concrete about them, aside from some ruins purportedly being theirs. I was planning on doing a little something with them - having them be a 'last remnant' if the original Fey that fled Toril after the Black Diamond affair. Considering their far northern location, I was going to give them a Huldrafolk spin (tying them some-what to my ideas of the original Raumvari peoples being similar to the Russo-Finnish peoples of early Europe). I figure they are regionally perfect, because they fit the Taan region and also blend well with the Asian Folklore of Kara-Tur, and I even mentioned the actual term 'Huldrafolk' in my Elven Netbook piece concerning the "Mythical Snow Elves" (Yes, I plan that far ahead and connect everything).
But I digress from my point (like usual)....
The novel itself isn't all that... memorable... I would go so far as to say its pretty lackluster, except for a couple of scenes.
HOWEVER, for someone like me, starved for lore about the region and in need of 'filling-in all the blanks', its a veritable goldmine! I will now be able to finally go back to my pet-project of creating an Endless Wastes Netbook.
So, what would everyone else consider 'The Perfect Novel'? I've read plenty of 'good yarns' set in the Realms, that had less then a dozen pages with anything approaching actual 'Realmslore', and I have read stories that were mediocre at best, and yet had enough info to make them worth a re-read.
Which is more important? Realms-specific information, or great story? Interesting characters are the bread-and-butter of FR, but are the plots equally important in a work of fiction? Does the story play second-fiddle to NPCs and lore? Is there a perfect balance, and if so, can anyone give specific examples?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2010 19:06:43
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:53:07
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| A perfect novel for me? Evermeet! A bit of novel, a bit of Realmslore. Good, memorable characters - some new, some old... What else to desire? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 19:08:29
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EXCELLENT example Zireael.
I'm actually embarrassed that hadn't immediately sprung to my mind as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 22:15:44
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In both of these novels the plot is overshadowed by the lore. Personally the world-building elements (fantastic new ideas) are the most important here, before the quality of characters, interesting dialogues, the story, and the style of writing. That's why I remember Evermeet more than any other novel.
I like the Star of Cursrah idea, going back in time.
Are these huldrafolk related to uldras from Frostburn? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 02:50:40
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I like a good story that is complemented by the lore. I want to feel the setting, even as the characters move thru it. Like the books by Elaine or Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak.
To put it another way... I want a leisurely drive thru the countryside, on a sunny day. Speeding thru the big city on a stormy night may still be a fun ride, but the speed keeps you from seeing much other than what's immediately ahead of you. Stop-and-go traffic thru that same city may allow you to see more of your surroundings, but then they're part of what's slowing down your drive. But a relaxing drive thru a scenic countryside? Few things better than that! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 03:12:12
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While what I consider to be The Absolutely Perfect Novel is not set in FR, I still find some perfect FR novels that I reread despite my motto that life is so short: Unclean, Undead, and Unholy by RLB, Ed's The Making of a Mage, Troy's Dangerous Games and The Siege, and Paul's Shadowstorm and Shadowrealm.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 04:33:07
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City of Ravens and Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy
hilarious protagonists and great lore combine for me the perfect novel/trilogy |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 05:18:58
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Another I just thought of - Waterdeep by Elaine and Ed.
Just about anything by either of them is a good mix of lore and story, and the two together is just pure win.
I guess what I expect out of a game-novel (of a setting I'm a fan of) is very different then what I want out of a 'regular' novel. My expectations of thrilling story isn't as high, so long as my inner fanboi is tickled with new lore. Fortunately, I usually get a good story anyway.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 12:49:12
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Ohh good question Markus
Now which one would it be... The ones that comes to mind are Blackstaff by Schend and Spellfire by Ed. Then again, though I'm ashamed to admit it, I haven't read any of Elaine's novels... but I bought them, they're on the Pile (with a capital P, its quite a pile) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 13:05:57
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I second Blackstaff. Though a single novel is never enough to chronicle the life of the great Archmage of Waterdeep, still, Steve made a fine job of connecting the dots. I remember finishing it in half a day. Impossible to let down. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 14:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
A perfect novel for me? Evermeet!
Yeah I would really like to have a book version of it, unfortunatly its out of print and I won't pay multiple times of the normal price to get one.
So I only read the PDF version :( |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 14:32:27
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| Another perfect novel - Cormyr. I've read it so many times I've lost count. A great story of the attack on King Azoun IV, intertwined with snippets of the past, that are important to the history of the Realm of the Purple Dragon or to the history of the Obarskyrs. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 16:08:22
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| Blackstaff for me did it....... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 16:12:38
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| Evermeet: Island of Elves, Cormyr, Waterdeep. All of these did it for me. A perfect blend of lore and storytelling. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 22:33:11
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Blackstaff wasn't perfect, but it was soo addicting that I couldn't put
it down either, and suffered the price for my neglect of putting away
the dishes, taking out the trash, and helping with the cleaning.
Ah well, so worth it.
At the time, I thought the first of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight was perfect
but rereading some of it, it's kind of slow. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 01:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Are these huldrafolk related to uldras from Frostburn?
Not sure - I remember looking at those, but I can't recall the particulars and am not near my books ATM.
My huldrafolk-version of the Maraloi are Fey (related to Elves) that are natural shape-shifters, and when they assume 'human' form still retain some aspect of the animal (sometimes a tail, furry pointed ears, a snout, ect..). Each is born with one particular animal they can transform into - other forms require magical ability (which some have anyway). The ones that can easily pass for humans (or Elves) occasionally enter civilized areas to see what they can learn of the world, with the idea that they can report it back to the others... but often these 'scouts' get caught-up in the wonder and frenzy that is human society ad don't make it back (becoming adventurers usually). They are sometimes mistaken for Hengyokai , and there is some connection there.
I think the Uldra were too connected to the para-elements of cold and ice for my taste, IIRC. However, I am sure there is a connection there as well - many Fey who chose to stay on Toril after their connection to Faerie was severed had to 'anchor' themselves to a place, and those places often bestow certain benefits of their own. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 08:25:06
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Hengeyokai are good idea, I wonder would there be a connection to the eastern lythari ...
I've connected uldras to Ulutiu, all of Ulou people have a bit of fey blood |
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Balduran Lavidah
Seeker
France
83 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 12:58:55
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Pour vous changer un peu, je propose un roman bien de chez moi : Le Parfum. Vous qui êtes amateur de FR, même si cette histoire ce base sur la réalité, il ne peut pas vous laisser indifférent :)
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For a change, I propose a novel property from me: Perfume. You who are fond of FR, even if this story based on this reality, he can not leave you indifferent:)
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"Le savoir s'apprend. La curiosité forme le savoir." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 21:04:33
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This is really going off-topic a bit...
Any other novels people can think of that focused heavily on 'lore'? I think the entire Giants trilogy could fall into that category, except that it neither felt very Realmsish nor took place in Faerun-proper. That's an example of lore-gone-wrong, IMHO. Tons of new info, but not connected to the Realms in any coherent way.
Not to derail my own topic - I will start a separate thread after I get home and start putting the material together, but in the meantime....quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Hengeyokai are good idea, I wonder would there be a connection to the eastern lythari ...
I've connected uldras to Ulutiu, all of Ulou people have a bit of fey blood
Interesting.
Lythari, Huldra/Maraloi, Hengyokai, and even Frostfolk (males) and Yuko-Onna (Female) are all part of the Fey/kami world. It's a little complex - I have connected all four of the 'First peoples' to an element (with humans being connected to the '5th element', Life - an amalgam of the other four). In that theory, the fey are actually 'spirits' - pure energy - that require being 'grounded' to the material plane in some way in order to maintain their physical forms.
Earth-Nodes provided them with that connection, I think. After the affair of the Black diamond, Most of the nodes were corrupted (became Faezress), and their homeland was destroyed, forcing the Elder Fey (Le'Shay) to flee Toril for the Feywild (which they either created or discovered, or some combination of both). The Fey that remained found new 'things' to anchor themselves, which include energy-sources (like cold), and geographic locations.
As for the Hengyokai-Maraloi connection, I'm thinking it was something that was forced upon both groups (beasts and fey) by the Archfey Mara, to give her people a permanent connection to the prime material and allow them to maintain a physical form without her constant intervention. Just a theory, mind you, even in my homebrew - still working on that one.
I like giving them some vestigal animal body-part they can't be rid of when they shift - makes them more like fey creatures in folklore. It also allows any Manga-gamers to do the Inu-Yashu thing.
On the other hand... the simple solution may just be that the Maraloi ARE the Hengyokai. This is what they have become after thousands of years. No need for unnecessary redundancy, I suppose. It could just be one of those 'best-kept secrets' of Kara-Tur.
I think I like that better - especially given some of the events in Horselords...... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Oct 2010 21:07:42 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 04:31:29
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UNHOLY was awesome for me. I tend to like High end High powered action packed stories and this one was just amazing - the battle at the end was sick!
The 3rd book in the last Mythal Trilogy (forget the name) was great really great.
Elminster in Hell was memorable as well. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 10:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not to derail my own topic - I will start a separate thread after I get home and start putting the material together, but in the meantime....
you better start a new thread
I have lots of theories about the earth nodes, the faerzress and Faerun, for now concerning the archfey Mara, look at the creatures called the Mara in the FR Monstrous Compendium. they are trapped fey spirits ... |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 14:49:57
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| Evermeet... |
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Xevo
Acolyte
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 22:49:39
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| I may alone in this one, I am sure, but I really loved The Legacy. The depth of character interaction was simply astounding. |
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
-Terry Pratchett |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 20:04:35
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| Ring of Winter for me has everything, The Legacy has no ancient lore |
z455t |
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The Perfect Novel?
