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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 06:55:27
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With the release of the new Underdark tome, I felt the need to start a topic about this interesting subject. As I am sure there will be some significant official canon discussion, I am just as interested in hearing about unofficial changes to races and communities of the Underdark that DM's may have made in their own FR campaigns.
Let's hear from you
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 26 Oct 2003 06:57:16
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 06:56:36
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Another, side-topic to consider is - Which communities in the Underdark have existed for the longest period?.
Conversely, who are the late arrivals to the endless night, the groups that went underground the most recently?. Are there any races that once dwelled in the Underdark that are not extinct or dwelling on the surface instead of underground?.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 26 Oct 2003 06:58:10 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 15:20:31
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I really have not liked the things I've heard about this product and initially decided not to purchase the guide. However, with Amazon's Share the love program from another buyer knocking the price down to just over $20 and the ability to return the item to Amazon if I want a refund, I caved in.
I'm weak. <Sigh> I know. I expect the worst and hope for the best here based on things I've heard. However, I look forward to getting the item in hand, hopefully by this weekend, and being able to comment and compare it to past Underdark works. |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 16:19:02
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| it hasent come out yet has it, but i have read some of it and one of the new ones those humans from ancient times am seing a onother shade deal her, there must be quite powerful mages her |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2003 : 04:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
it hasent come out yet has it,
It's been out well over a week in the U.S. To my knowledge other nations on the WOTC board are reporting having sighted it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2003 : 16:13:58
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| any thing abut Cyric there and those "new" people who lives underground since the fall og nethril what is the deal with them ?? |
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Knightcrawler
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2003 : 21:56:13
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| That would be the Deep Imaskari. They have been down in the Underdark for about 4,000 years. Ever since the Imaskari Empire fell when its slaves rebelled (Unther and Mulhorand). The only thing I don't like is that it says that the Imaskari some how created the Phaerimm. |
Knightcrawler
I Am Become Death, Destroyer Of Worlds |
Edited by - Knightcrawler on 30 Oct 2003 21:57:19 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2003 : 06:59:08
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Cyric, I'm only halfway through the tome's Geography section now, but so far there has been very little on Cyric (the deity that is...boy I sound like Foghorn Leghorn  ) or his never-ending series of machinations.
As for the '"new" people who lives underground since the fall og nethril', as Knightcrawler said, they are known as the Deep Imaskari who survived the fall of their great empire in -2488 DR. They fled underground, led by a powerful lord named Ilphemon. He also took with him, members of his family, apprentices, and retainers.
Ilphemon's descendent ruled Deep Imaskar until -634 DR when a cruel and twisted cabal of evil Necromancers killed Ilphemon and his family and assumed control.
For most of their history, the Deep Imaskari have lived in perpetual isolation, from the Underdark, and the surface. Only now, are there 'dissenting' voices which have called for an end to the 'Great Seal' which protects and isolates the city from the outside world. This debate has put the three rulers at odds, since the High Lord Planner (and proper ruler of the city) was quite affirmative in his stance on not opening the Great Seal. The two other parties, the Lord Apprehender and the Lady Enacter called for an end to the Great Seal, in an attempt to learn about the outside world, and foster trade and commerce.
There is more, but since you will probably go out and purchase the tome anyway, you can learn about the rest then  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2003 : 11:20:00
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What an excellent product this is!! 
Just wondered though, which other Realms products have mentioned the Deep Imaskari? Old Empires?
Its all quite intriguing, is this possibly something thats about to explode into another major Realms event?!  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 13:57:10
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It is interesting. I've always felt that the other older human kingdoms of the Realms did not get enough attention. I hope this is the start of a slight trend that will explore other ancient regions (not to the extent of Arcane Age...obviously) of Faerun, besides Netheril.
As for other Imaskari references, I'll check.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 14:05:03
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As a side note, what did everyone think about the Imaskari's connection to the origin of the Phaerimms?.
For those of you who do not know what I am talking about, look through this page
for the Deep Imaskari excerpt. There are also a number of other Underdark excerpts as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Nov 2003 14:06:54 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 18:49:19
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| then we have a evil ancient people the shades and we have the Imaskari's the nutral ancient people i wonder if there is going to be a god one any way i think the shades wil ask for alliance they are just as old are they not this could evold |
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Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 23:00:59
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| Can there be an allignece between drows and the shades? |
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2003 : 01:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
As a side note, what did everyone think about the Imaskari's connection to the origin of the Phaerimms?.
For those of you who do not know what I am talking about, look through this page
for the Deep Imaskari excerpt. There are also a number of other Underdark excerpts as well.
An unusal why to give a history to a sub race but actually I like it.
I wish I had the book and could read more.How many pages total are used to explain this connection. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2003 : 23:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
What an excellent product this is!!
Just wondered though, which other Realms products have mentioned the Deep Imaskari? Old Empires?
Its all quite intriguing, is this possibly something thats about to explode into another major Realms event?!
Unaproachable East is the tome you're looking for Rad. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2003 : 23:30:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Unaproachable East is the tome you're looking for Rad.
Really!? I must have completely missed that section in the book!  Thanks Mumadar...and good to see you back, if only occassionally  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2003 : 06:28:32
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I got this book earlier this week. Dear Cyric.....what a mess. Compared to some D20 books out there from Publishers such as Green Ronin and Fantasy Flight Games, WOTC doesn't even come close in art, creative writing, or presentation anymore.
I thought my opinion might be an isolated one so I passed it along to one of my players. I get a note back with the book stating, "This is the stupidest book they've put out yet." Strike two.
Okay, let's pass this along to another of my players. Again, like the first one, no biased comments beforehand, simply a "Hey, take a look at this. I got it from Amazon earlier this week."
I get it back a short time later. As she hands it to me, what does she say?"
"This is a stupid book."
I couldn't stop laughing as she didn't even realize how much her words echoed the previous person's note. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2003 : 16:49:42
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I got this book earlier this week. Dear Cyric.....what a mess. Compared to some D20 books out there from Publishers such as Green Ronin and Fantasy Flight Games, WOTC doesn't even come close in art, creative writing, or presentation anymore.
I thought my opinion might be an isolated one so I passed it along to one of my players. I get a note back with the book stating, "This is the stupidest book they've put out yet." Strike two.
Okay, let's pass this along to another of my players. Again, like the first one, no biased comments beforehand, simply a "Hey, take a look at this. I got it from Amazon earlier this week."
I get it back a short time later. As she hands it to me, what does she say?"
"This is a stupid book."
I couldn't stop laughing as she didn't even realize how much her words echoed the previous person's note.
Care to elaborate on this SiriusBlack? What exactly dont you like about the book? I think its great! ive been looking forward to it for a long time and its not been a disappointment at all. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2003 : 19:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Care to elaborate on this SiriusBlack? What exactly dont you like about the book? I think its great! ive been looking forward to it for a long time and its not been a disappointment at all.
Let's see
Horrible art
The inevitable creation of races that aren't going to be played but will fill up space
Poor creative writing
A rehash of material
A rehash of ideas (ohh, another race long thought gone is now reappearing in the Realms).
Overall lack of anything interesting. I feel asleep reading this book. Egads, never did that with past products.
WOTC is producing very bland FR stuff right now and will continue to do so as long as consumers buy material. I'm happy you are pleased with the book and really wish you the best in your game using it. I am sending it back to Amazon and getting my money back. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2003 : 11:44:06
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Let's see
Horrible art
The inevitable creation of races that aren't going to be played but will fill up space
Poor creative writing
A rehash of material
A rehash of ideas (ohh, another race long thought gone is now reappearing in the Realms).
Overall lack of anything interesting. I feel asleep reading this book. Egads, never did that with past products.
WOTC is producing very bland FR stuff right now and will continue to do so as long as consumers buy material. I'm happy you are pleased with the book and really wish you the best in your game using it. I am sending it back to Amazon and getting my money back.
::gobsmacked:: |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2003 : 14:23:57
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I have to disagree with you on the art, Sirius. I thought most of the material was well illustrated. I especially like the image of Deep Imaskar...it reminds me so much of Sigil .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2003 : 15:25:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
I have to disagree with you on the art, Sirius. I thought most of the material was well illustrated. I especially like the image of Deep Imaskar...it reminds me so much of Sigil .
Art is very subjective. I strongly disagree with anyone who likes the art in the Underdark book. The drow with the electric shock/Buckwheat hairdo is the topper for me. Anyone who looks at this art and thinks it's comparable in any way to Green Ronin's Plot and Poisonor Sheoloth from Mongoose products might be sipping some of the eggnog early for Christmas.  And do we even want to get started on covers.....? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2003 : 15:41:38
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Oh, I can agree with you on the 'drow with the electric shock/Buckwheat hairdo'...that was just disturbing... . Although some of the 'race' art was well presented. What about the Deep Imaskari?.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2003 : 04:37:25
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| For those interested, ENWorld's message boards has a thread where a transcript of a chat with the creators of this product. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2003 : 05:11:55
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I admit, I'm a bit biased when it comes to anything Underdark related, but this book really is put together well. I really like the new races (Deep Imaskari the best) and most of the new feats and new spells. I like the idea of the earthnodes and the way they break the underdark down into 3 layers - upper, middle and lower regions. Some of the new monsters are pretty scary too (the All Consuming Hunger and the Arachnoid Mouther are a couple of creatures right out of your worst nightmares).
The coolest part of the book though, has to be the geography section and the info on a lot of the communities that make their homes down there. Not so much the ones we already know about, but the ones that we don't (again, Deep Imaskar comes to mind).
Unlike Sirius Black, I think the artwork is far better than either Sheoloth or Plots and Poisons. (I have both, and I'm sorry bud, but I just don't see it. But as you say, totally subjective) I am a bit confused about "The drow with the electric shock/Buckwheat hairdo", though. Did you mean the Derro in the races section? He does look a little comical. I can't find a Drow in the entire book that matches that description. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2003 : 05:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
Unlike Sirius Black, I think the artwork is far better than either Sheoloth or Plots and Poisons. (I have both, and I'm sorry bud, but I just don't see it. But as you say, totally subjective) I am a bit confused about "The drow with the electric shock/Buckwheat hairdo", though. Did you mean the Derro in the races section? He does look a little comical. I can't find a Drow in the entire book that matches that description. [/font=Tahoma]
Look for a stupid Joker grin on a drow in this anime style art book that looks like a demented Matrix movie gone bad and you should know which picture I'm referring to.
I believe it is in the latter half of the book. I'd love to point you out a page number. But, I shipped this book back for a refund with "hazardous material open at your own risk" on the outside of the package. 
I only wish that WOTC would put the artist names a bit clearer on each page's drawings so I know who to directly blame for each picture.
I'm glad you are enjoying the book and its art. Granted, it's not up there with the star elves from Unapparoachable East and their wonderful miner's lamp attached to their forehead. But, hey, we can't have classics like that every day of the week. We'd get spoiled if so. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2003 : 11:49:02
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I agree with Yasraena on this one!
The art is great and the overall presentation is fitting to the quality of 3rd ed FR.
The geographical section is fantastic and as you say, the split levels of the Underdark gives a feeling of wariness of staying clear of the Lower Underdark!!!
This book is MUCH more than I had expected, and my expectations were high! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Communities of the Underdark
