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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 05:08:26
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It would make sense if Chosen became Proxies upon death, and since Proxies act on their god's behalf.... just seems to me a lot of titles for something that does basically the same thing.
I didn't say "I know for a fact" about the Chosen, what I meant was "it wouldn't surprise me IF..."
Its a fact that deities have self-aware 'Avatars' called 'Saints' (Exarchs) - they are an extension of the god itself. So IF a Chosen becomes a Proxy and continues to work on its god's behalf in the mortal world, then that is the definition of a 'Saint'.
Just saying.....
And since ALL of these things (along with demi-gods) now fall under the 4e header of 'Exarchs', seems to me I'm not the only one that thinks they should all be lumped together. The only real difference between an Avatar and a Chosen is that a chosen was mortal - we don't really know from what substance the physical form of an Avatar is drawn from. As for power, they both contain the same amount of 'divine spark' (DvR), granted them by the god in question.
@Alystra - I think the reason why gods can be killed within their own Realms is because when under siege like that, they will usually (and stupidly) draw-in all the power they can for the battle, which means re-absorbing all their Avatars. Mystra is clever-enough to stash-away much of her divine power in other places, just so 'all of her' is never completely destroyed (as I am sure other 'smart gods' do as well). Only a very stupid deity would put all its eggs in one basket (which I suppose happens only out of desperation, whilst under attack).
What that means is that usually a god can be (nearly) completely killed ON its home plane, and usually it can't be completely killed OFF its home plane (because then you are just catching a single Avatar 'with its pants down').
Usually.
If you were able to follow my logic above, its easy to see how exceptions may happen in both cases (although any god walking around with ALL its power outside it's home plane is just asking for trouble). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2011 05:10:49 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 06:07:09
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| Mark, there are certain aspects of your idea that I like and already use; gods being worshiped outside their normal boundries. Though in my realms, the evil gods at least will actively encourage this. Warlocks and wizards taught magic by diabolic forces might pray to Asmodeus as their god of magic, lawmen working for a corrupt system may worship him as a noble figure betrayed by the unjust powers that were, others might worship him as a jailor and punisher of evil, a cultured warrior god, a clever god of guile and politics, so on and so forth. These are of course, all aspects of who and what Asmodeus is(or at least what the myths paint him as), but they are outside his established "canon" role as a god of sin and tyranny. And that's the idea; to paint himself in as many lights as possible, attract as many people to his faith as possible, and lead their souls all to hell. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 06:55:36
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Who said anything about Corellon liking it? Or even having any say in the matter?
Oh, without a doubt prayer and offerings can be made to a deity without the deity necessarily wanting or desiring it. In the fourth (fifth?) book of the Avatar series, Mask contests Kelemvor's judgment of Avner that way. Kelemvor had sent Avner to Torm's domain, but Mask had a number of the offerings that Avner had made to him in the past (unknowingly, as I recall), so Torm had to give Avner up. Kelemvor intervened, of course, and made Avner into the Seraph of Death. So despite Avner's outlook and beliefs, Mask still had a claim on him.
However, Mask had to accept that worship (which he did in order to snitch Avner's soul from Torm) for it to work. I would doubt that a god can be "corrupted" in that sense, though, not unless they themselves alter their portfolios. Praying to Corellon as a god of assassins might, for all we know, just fly out into "empty space" instead. Or it may begin to empower a new deity who will slowly form over time as a representation of an elven "assassin god" in accordance with the worship being directed towards it. Reality reflecting the prayers of the faithful by spawning a new deity to fill the hole.
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(And BTW, I'm pretty sure the Eldreth Veluthra still venerate Corellon).
They do. Corellon ignores them, doesn't answer or acknowledge their prayers in any way whatsoever, and generally wants absolutely nothing to do with them at all. They go to the Wall of the Faithless when they die. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 22:15:07
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As a general rule, I consider killing gods to fall under "Charles' Rules of Gaming No. 5#."
Charles Rules of Gaming No. 5 is as followed:
"Kiling a deity is, by itself, a dumb and pointless goal that can easily devalue a campaign. HOWEVER, when you have deities actively plotting to murder people in your campaign setting and generally behaving like villains then it is right and just for PCs to want to kick their butt."
Seriously, if gods were remote and distant beings, wanting to kill them would be stupid and Munchkin-ish. However, if Bane is actively telling people to raise an army of undead warriors under Fzoul to go kill you plus getting a ritual together in order to bring him physically into the world - your players are fully justified in wanting to take the guy out.
Once you make a deity into a villain, I don't think he should be off-limits. It's why I think that making sorcerers and so on "untouchable" by being super super high level is ridiculous too. Mister Tam and the Shade Princes should be as vulnerable as any other villain if your PCs are going to be heroes.
It may be DIFFICULT to beat them but the Lord of the Rings is all about beating the Tolkien-version of a Demon Prince through a Deus Ex Machina. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mortals challenging the Gods.
