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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 03:21:47
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If there are Abishai that serve Tiamat corresponding to the evil colours of dragon kind, would it not make sense for there to be metallic abishai that serve Bahamut? (Silver, gold, copper, bronze, and brass to parallel the red, black, green, white, and blue) Has anyone ever stated out or thought of such beings?
I am wondering about this because I am trying to write my own timeline for the realms that is divergent from the one presented in 4th edition. I envision Tiglath and non-evil followers of Tiamat converting to the worship of Bahamut secretly, then overthrowing Shudu-Ab and the followers of Tiamat in Unthalass with the aid of dragons that resode in secret on the Isle of the Gods in volcanoes, and possibly a small force of half-dragon crusaders. (I think those would be bronze dragons?) (and presumably the Legion of Nanna-Sin, The Northern Wizards and maybe They would then be aided by divine servitors of Bahamut...and it dawned on me that metallic abishai would make sense in that regard. I tried to google metallic abishai but nothing came up.
(also in my own timeline the forces of Mulhorand have fled, settled in, or been destroyed because an evil Pharoah has taken control of Skuld due to the disapearance of most of the Mulhorandi pantheon)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 04:36:37
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| While I'm sure that you could have "good abishai" it is important to remember that Abishai are Devils...not dragon-kin. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 05:41:27
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| Yes they are. Which is why I mentioned part dragon beings separately from half-dragons. They would go good outsiders not natural beings. (I don't understand what Dragonborn are in 4th edition and don't care to learn, by the way) Sometimes Erinyes, for example, are described as fallen Deva... couldn't there be celestials that are similar to devils but polar opposites? A copper abishai for a white abishai, etc. ? If Bahamut is a deity wouldn't he possess the power to just create a new race of divine servitors, as well? It is my understanding that Abishai are the creations of Tiamat and a Baatezu (Devil) prince. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 05:54:21
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| Actually, I thought to balance out Abishais of Tiamat Bahamut called upon his followers to transform in Dragonborn, no? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 06:33:32
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| Is this written somewhere in a D&D manual or something you've thought of yourself? |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 06:39:15
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| The tome of the dragons guide, do not remember correct name. Or something like that. Tells about various draconic races, including half-bloods and kobolds. I memorized the dragonborn very well. Through the ritual most faithful followers of Bahamut turn into draconic variant of their race. It is feature of only good dragons to fight back abyssal servants of Tiamat. All dragonborns are of metallic dragons. Like Abishais of chromatic. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 14 Apr 2011 06:40:20 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 06:41:29
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| Dragonborn and the like are mortal beings though. Not good outsiders that would parallel Abishai or other extra planar entities such as Slaadi and Modrons. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 06:46:22
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| Not sure about celestials not becoming one. After reading a little in beginning I got a little fascinated by other races. Kobolds are fun, lol. Gotta look it up some time. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 09:52:52
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| Try couatls, or archons (if there are hounds why not serpents or seraphim). There's also a cool monster in PF Bestiary 2, the draconal. |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 03:24:13
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mr hedgehog
i agree with dalor in that abishai are devils, but i love your thoughts on metallic counterparts and i also would be very much interested in your timeline
i also am loathe to 4E FR and i like a bahamut v Tiamat campaign and would love to see you ideas |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 13:27:51
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
i agree with dalor in that abishai are devils
Yeah, abishai are devils. Only by agreement with the Dark 8 does Tiamat have any of them as servitors. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 23:07:06
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I know they are baatezu/devils. But I read that the Abishai were created by Tiamat with one member of the dark eight. I assume over the decades they've had different back stories. At some points in D&D cosmology wasn't Tiamat a Baatezu Lord and not a deity, for example? It is my understanding that there are multiple Tiamat like entities in a Planescape type of thing.
When i've written more i'll post details = P (However, right now I am doing final exams at University so it might not be any time soon) |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 23:10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I know they are baatezu/devils. But I read that the Abishai were created by Tiamat with one member of the dark eight. I assume over the decades they've had different back stories. At some points in D&D cosmology wasn't Tiamat a Baatezu Lord and not a deity, for example? It is my understanding that there are multiple Tiamat like entities in a Planescape type of thing.
When i've written more i'll post details = P (However, right now I am doing final exams at University so it might not be any time soon)
In 1e she was ruler of the first layer of Hell. Ever since then in 2e and 3e (4e being a completely different beast) its been consistent that she's a deity, not a devil, and at no point has she ever been (in game) one of the Lords of the 9. As for the creation of the Abishai, I'd need to look up where exactly the source of that one was (might have been me actually). |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 11:28:15
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| Page 14 of Faiths and Avatars specifically says there are multiple Tiamat's throughout the multiverse. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36884 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 14:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Page 14 of Faiths and Avatars specifically says there are multiple Tiamat's throughout the multiverse.
It does not say that all of those Tiamats are entirely separate, though. It really leaves the question of one Tiamat manifesting in different places or multiple Tiamats unanswered. |
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Metallic Abishai?
