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Richh
Acolyte
5 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 22:28:50
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Just a quick question, firstly this is all based around the 1375DR year.
It has always been my assumption that the Zhentarim generally recruits from it's conquests, so should they storm into Battledale and subjugate it, they would naturally conscript any loses back from the locals through simple means. Some would perhaps willingly join for pay, others would do so or watch loved ones be harmed or worse.
Generally this happened a lot in our own real history of empires etc, and I always saw the Zhentarim as a less than tolerant Roman type group.
Just wondering if anyone can point me to any cannon proof that this is either a correct or incorrect assumption?
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 22:44:53
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| I don't know of any lore sources that confirm or deny any of hte above, but mass press-ganging new conquests sounds very Zhentarim to me. They could possibly give the option of paying obscenely high 'taxes' or finding yourself on the front line with the same orcs that trashed your house not so long ago. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 00:31:54
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The only canon Realms story, AFAIK, that deals with Zhentish recruitment is The Walls of Midnight in the Realms of Infamy anthology. Apparently, people approach them, and then are tested. Nothing about the Zentarrim actively recruiting (which makes sense - there is no shortage or morally ambiguous adventurers who would want to join a powerful group).
I don't think that hiring your former enemies as your military is such a hot idea - it didn't work out so well for the Romans, either (Rome was sacked more often by it's own armies then by outsiders). Also, the Zhents are very paranoid, so I'm just not seeing it - that would be a golden opportunity to slip some Harpers (or Red Wizards, whatever) into their ranks. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 00:33:41
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There are Zhents, Zhentilar, and Zhentarim.
Zhentarim - Merchant operations, Mages, Intelligence gathering organization.
Zhentilar - Military
Zhents - The People
I don't see the "Zhentarim" conscripting anyone, unless it's into slavery to be sold. The Zhentilar do run "press gangs", going about pressing people into military service. These troops must be kept seperate from regular Zhentilar troops, for the regular Zhentilar have a strong military history, and are well discplined. Those pressed into service likely perform lowly tasks, or are used as fodder.
Now my knowledge is from pre-1374, mostly 1359. |
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Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 06:12:19
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The Zhentil Keep Boxed set specifically speaks to this, and states that press gangs are common. Anyone can be pressed into service.
That is the extent of what I recall on the matter, but I can see that many Zhentilar soldiers start this way. Their training after is apparently of high quality, as their soldiers are well equipped and disciplined.
Zhentilar are controlled, more often than not by a huge margin, by Zhentarim desire however. Left to proper military direction of competent commanders I think they are a very potent military force. Having their numbers thrown hither and yon by the arrogant whim of some Zhentarim agent however seems to keep them without real cohesion.
To me, if a soldier is a Zhentilar, he is a capable soldier...I don't see Zhentilar as fodder really; though they might be treated as such by Zhentarim direction and use. Orcs and other humanoids are the fodder for the Zhentarim...and used more as auxiliary troops by the Zhentilar.
A good example of a Zhentilar Outpost and how it is run (and run well!) is in the Module "Ruins of Adventure" that I would recommend looking at. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 13:25:09
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| I like the Zhentarim invading and assimilating a town. Makes them more fun as villains. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 23:01:42
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| IIRC, the conscripts do not need to be human. In the Empires trilogy (Crusade to be specific) the Zhents gave Cormyr orc soldiers to go help repel the Tugian invasion. In turn, many of the orcs settled where they were after the invasion was over, rather than return to their Zhentish masters (I do not remember the reference for that bit). |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2011 : 23:26:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
IIRC, the conscripts do not need to be human. In the Empires trilogy (Crusade to be specific) the Zhents gave Cormyr orc soldiers to go help repel the Tugian invasion. In turn, many of the orcs settled where they were after the invasion was over, rather than return to their Zhentish masters (I do not remember the reference for that bit).
At the end of the Horde Trilogy, the Orcs declare they are staying in Thesk.
Later I found an entry concerning them that they had become "free" from Zhent control...I do not recall them ever being Zhentarim Forces either...they were specifically mentioned as being from Zhentil Keep.
That to me meant that they are often used as auxiliary forces by the
Zhentilar...but I doubt seriously they are considered regular Zhentilar soldiers. That was in first and second editions though, when orcs were Lawful Evil instead of Chaotic Evil. That was actually one of my greatest irritations of 3e...but it fits for the Forgotten Realms over all I suppose with the history of orc hordes.
For ALL of D&D...no. The orcs of Greyhawk (for instance) are hardly ever mentioned in simple mindless hordes; but instead are a militant race of organized aggression.
I have a THIRD race of Orcs in my own Forgotten Realms: the Tharian Orc. Much in appearance exactly like the typical Green Orc; but much more organized and militant, having a tradition of fighting as decent Heavy Infantry (meaning in formation) and not simply as a roaving horde of Light Infantry (meaning incapable of fighting in a truly organized and cohesive manner). |
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Nilonim
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 15:09:27
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In "Shadows of Doom" the Zhetarim conquer Highdale in the guise of a merchenary company and rule it infiltrating in the Highdale council their members. They never try to recruit the local people imposing their rule by force.
They never say openly to be from zhentil keep but let the Highdale people to guess.
P.S.: sorry for my bad english |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2011 : 00:24:58
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| The Zhents, paranoid to a fault, aren't going to induct potential spies and insurgents such as Dalesmen into their ranks. They use foreign conscripts at need but wouldn't let them near leadership positions. As with the brief occupation of the High Dale, there's no indication of troop recruitment from subjugated Daggerdale or Teshendale. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2011 : 01:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The Zhents, paranoid to a fault, aren't going to induct potential spies and insurgents such as Dalesmen into their ranks. They use foreign conscripts at need but wouldn't let them near leadership positions. As with the brief occupation of the High Dale, there's no indication of troop recruitment from subjugated Daggerdale or Teshendale.
Sorry to be contrary, but I thought there was every indication that the Zhentilar conscripted from both Teshendale and Daggerdale...one of the reasons for the insular and divisive nature of Daggerfolk was that they no longer trusted even their own brothers.
I'll look again, but I could have sworn they had turncoat sympathizers in Daggerdale for certain. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 12:48:59
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There are also:
Zhentish - work or goods product by zhents
Zhentarian - used for artifact and olden-work |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 17:42:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'll look again, but I could have sworn they had turncoat sympathizers in Daggerdale for certain.
Agents and puppet governors, yes, Dalesmen Zhentilar not that I recall . . . though I have Realms rust. |
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About the Zhentarim
