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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:01:38
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So why didn't she subsume him instead so that she could take over psionics? Would have made perfect sense. Psions wouldn't have been as rare in the Realms as they are now. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 13:12:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So she could have done the Ovoid Mind switch?
The Ovoids... Whoa! I've not thought about them in quite a while. I think I've adapted them for use in my SPELLJAMMER campaigns, as I recall.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So why didn't she subsume him instead so that she could take over psionics? Would have made perfect sense. Psions wouldn't have been as rare in the Realms as they are now.
I would think this is probably a reflection of the fact that psionics doesn't work through the Weave, " ... and therefore stands apart from magic, can work in dead-magic zones, etc." [src: So Saith Ed July '04]
So, apparently, it requires a deity of its own for preservation. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 14:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So why didn't she subsume him instead so that she could take over psionics? Would have made perfect sense. Psions wouldn't have been as rare in the Realms as they are now.
I would think this is probably a reflection of the fact that psionics doesn't work through the Weave, " ... and therefore stands apart from magic, can work in dead-magic zones, etc." [src: So Saith Ed July '04]
So, apparently, it requires a deity of its own for preservation.
A deity can tend to several things at the same time. Besides, if a dragon deity [Null] can have two opposite portfolios [death and undeath], why can't Mystra have both magic and psionics?! Heh, the latter aren't even opposite. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:23:38
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Nah, that's too relative. Shar herself retains control over the Shadow Weave while at the same time being in possession of other things not necessarily associated with the SW, like night, loss, and forgetfulness. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 04:10:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Nah, that's too relative. Shar herself retains control over the Shadow Weave while at the same time being in possession of other things not necessarily associated with the SW, like night, loss, and forgetfulness.
Eh. We know that psionics are separate from the Weave. And given how pervasive and intimate the Weave was with Toril, I suspect that Mystra simply preferred that the Invisible Art remained in the hands of other more capable deities.
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 05:08:09
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My point is there is no need to force that "limitation" to Mystra. Sure, the Invisible Art is separate from the Weave, but by subsuming Auppenser, she wouldn't only do the nearly-dead god and his followers a favor, she'd do the entire Toril a favor---there would be an abundance of psions. By absorbing Auppenser [his knowledge and essence], she'd obviously learn how to "harness" psionics; and given the number of clergy she has, it'll be easy for her to "spread" the practice of psionics. Heh, she could simply "tell" all her clerics to be dual-skilled: in magic and in ki. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 06:09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
My point is there is no need to force that "limitation" to Mystra. Sure, the Invisible Art is separate from the Weave, but by subsuming Auppenser, she wouldn't only do the nearly-dead god and his followers a favor, she'd do the entire Toril a favor---there would be an abundance of psions. By absorbing Auppenser [his knowledge and essence], she'd obviously learn how to "harness" psionics; and given the number of clergy she has, it'll be easy for her to "spread" the practice of psionics. Heh, she could simply "tell" all her clerics to be dual-skilled: in magic and in ki.
The very fact that Mystra chose to support Auppenser by casting him into a regenerative sleep, rather than letting him fade into oblivion, suggests that her subsuming the Psionic God and his portfolios may not have been entirely possible. Or, at the very least, required Auppenser to still remain intimately connected to the energy of the Invisible Art, much like the relationship between Mystra and the Weave.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 07:09:37
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I find that unlikely, specially that Auppenser is just an Intermediate Deity, while Mystra is a Greater. If an archdevil [Asmodeus] managed to subsume a lesser deity [Azuth], how much more a greater god. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 08:33:48
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| Regardless, it's supported by Ed's words on the subject [which I quoted earlier--about the Invisible Art being independent of the Weave], so I'd assume there's something special about the relationship between psionics and Auppenser, that makes it difficult for Mystra to simply subsume him and his control of the Art. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 23:02:33
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1) Yes. In one campaign we had a shield dwarf who discovered he had a few psionic wild talents, that he later discovered he inherited from his duergar father.
2) Yes, with psychic surgery, but it's bloody damgerous to the target.
2a) Yes, with psychic surgery, but it's bloody damgerous to the target.
3) There is an item, that looks like a silver disc or button that can shock a % chance of awakening. As for powers, use what suits your story and wont unbalance your game.
4) 2nd, 3rd, and 4th have their own psionics books.
5) Atleast in 2nd, there was a scale that seemed to indicate, the more magically inclined a race was, the few psionics they had. |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 04:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Regardless, it's supported by Ed's words on the subject [which I quoted earlier--about the Invisible Art being independent of the Weave], so I'd assume there's something special about the relationship between psionics and Auppenser, that makes it difficult for Mystra to simply subsume him and his control of the Art.
And the fact that Ed didn't say whether Mystra would be able to control psionics or not should she subsume Auppenser leaves others to assume almost anything... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 04:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Regardless, it's supported by Ed's words on the subject [which I quoted earlier--about the Invisible Art being independent of the Weave], so I'd assume there's something special about the relationship between psionics and Auppenser, that makes it difficult for Mystra to simply subsume him and his control of the Art.
And the fact that Ed didn't say whether Mystra would be able to control psionics or not should she subsume Auppenser leaves others to assume almost anything...
How so? We're told it stands apart from magic. Thus, Ed sees psionics and the arcane as very different energy systems. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Keldren
Acolyte
Austria
18 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 07:33:38
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I have always been fascinated with psionics and its connection to the realms. In fact, one of our campaigns featured a priest of Auppenser as a main character.
We tried to incorporate as much official lore on the invisible art as possible (including, a few udoxias, the Kaliesh’erai and some more).
Illithids and duergars had their parts to play as well, of course. Rebuilding the church of Auppenser from the ground up was quite the undertaking!
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"No sane human would try to wash ink beats with ink, or oil beads with oil. Only blood shall always be washed with blood" |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 00:48:06
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| Was re-reading Cloak and Dagger for another scroll earlier today and discovered that one of the Cambion of House Dlardrageth was a level 12 Psionicist back in 2E Ryvvik Dlardrageth was Countess Sarya's only son. 3.x has this kid dead though per Lord's of Darkness |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 06:01:44
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I wonder if Telamont is also a psionicist. His ability to control minds with ease looks like a sign. Malygris was practically helpless before him. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 06:08:45
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| I was only wondering if Mystra doing her mind switch would have worked. Heck maybe Midnight was the one who died. Now Mystra and Appenser share the same body. We all know WotC will change stuff up with out really checking it out half or most of the time... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 07:43:10
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I actually PM'd THO about the matter on Mystra and Auppenser, as Sage and I can't seem to agree on it. Hopefully, despite his incredibly busy schedule, Ed could find time to give a reply. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 04:15:22
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Here's a brief reply from Ed:
quote:
Originally posted by THO
Dennis, that's correct: she still would not have had control of psionics.
Also, Mystra is one of the most "mature" deities, most concerned with cosmic balance and less with getting her own way.
Moreover, Ao had already told her flatly that NO increase in her power would be tolerated.
(This all comes from Ed.)
love,
THO
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Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 04:59:22
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You're welcome, Sage.
And yes, you were. I didn't know about that Ao angle, or maybe just forgot about it.
Is Mystra the only deity Ao prohibits to have an increase in power? Shar is obviously hoarding power here and there, the last being Mask himself (though one may argue that what she took from Mask was hers from the very beginning). |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 06:02:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Is Mystra the only deity Ao prohibits to have an increase in power? Shar is obviously hoarding power here and there, the last being Mask himself (though one may argue that what she took from Mask was hers from the very beginning).
I know Ed's covered this topic before, but I can't remember which year in the "So Saith Ed" archives.
I'll keep looking. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 06:40:06
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Okay, thanks ahead, Sage. I hope you find them. That must mean Ao is pretty much busy everyday, or what passes as day for the gods, as his "little children" have always been scheming to gain more power, save Mystra. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 20:07:14
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Well my copy of the Psionic Handbook showed up finally and it does answer some of my answers about the ins and outs of psionics. I need to read it a little more thoroughly to get the system down pat. I should have a copy of the Expanded Psionics Handbook soon.
I have a new question, that I am guessing is answered in the Expanded Handbook but I figure I will throw it out here any way in case it isn't. Is there any kind of Prestige Class along the lines of the Mystic Theurge only with Psionics and Arcane Magic (or Divine Magic)? Also, does the Expanded Handbook have any of the "Psionics in setting X, Y, Z" type advice/overview? |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 20:51:09
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There is the Cerebremancer from Expanded Psionic Handbook that is arcane/psion theurge
Not sure of a divine/psion mix...
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The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 22:31:12
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Auppenser's clergy, most probably. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 23:15:45
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| There may be a divine/psion hybrid prc in the 3PP Hyperconscious: Explorations in Psionics, by Bruce Cordell. Though it is 3P, Bruce also wrote the majority of the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Complete Psionic, so I think it is safe to assume that it is balanced with the rest of the 3.5 psionics rules. I will try to remember to check it when I get home. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2011 : 00:10:54
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Not to rain on anybody's parade, the 3.5 Players Guide to
Faerun says the opposite of what Ed said in 04. That psionics
and magic can detect and affect each other. That is in the area
where they talk about the psionic institute in Evereska.
Not that I will use that, they're two different animals in my book. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2011 : 00:57:27
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| Old new to me... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2011 : 01:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Not to rain on anybody's parade, the 3.5 Players Guide to
Faerun says the opposite of what Ed said in 04. That psionics
and magic can detect and affect each other. That is in the area
where they talk about the psionic institute in Evereska.
Not that I will use that, they're two different animals in my book.
Just because they are not transparent to each other doesn't mean that they aren't different animals. One is power from the weave, one is internal power.
The main discrepancy I see is Ed stating that Psionics could work in a dead magic zone, but the PGtF blurb says that an Antimagic Shell would prevent Psionics...which to me are basically the same thing. Though one could argue that since an Antimagic Shell is a magic effect that it blocks Psionics, whereas a dead magic zone is just a lack of the weave in an area, which shouldn't affect Psionics
As always though, play it however your Realms works best for you!  |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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Psionics in the Realms questions
