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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, magic should never be like candy. I'm all in favor of common low-level magics for the Realms, but not higher ones. Regenerating items for fifth-level characters sounds overbalanced.
Not only is it overbalanced, it also takes away an element of realism in your game (or as close to realism as one can get in a fantasy setting). This reminds me alot of the 'Elemental' type fan-created setting that was released last year. It was heavily based on the Realms, but nearly every peasant and farmer had access to +1 enchanted items, and/or weapons...and that is just wrong...
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Belfar
Seeker
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:31:38
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| Farmer's having +1 items? That is utterly rediculous. That would be similar to us giving an automatic rifle to a civilian. I was thinking of homebrewing a setting where magic is somewhat supressed in favor of science. Magic users are feared because they control such a dangerous force and scientists are revered for helping the common people make their lives easier. A nice twist I would think. It would also let me use my class I just made called the gnome gunner. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:37:39
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Hmmm...that sounds like an interesting idea. It also reminds me of a similar paradigm shift that my own world of 'Gateway' has been operating under the last 500 years, but that's another story for another scroll on another forum...
The methodologies may differ, but the 'fall' of a deitific pantheon will have that effect.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:07:32
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I think it is a tricky bit of balancing; at lower levels magic should be relatively rare, and the finding of such an item should be a triumph. However, at higher levels the flow of magic needs to increase to some extent I think. Not hugely, but t some extent, otherwise you can be somewhat underpowered. I know, I've had it happen, and while adding a wee extra challenge I think the players resent being too magic starved at that point. I personally like to keep the settings low magic, or at least my parties. Its okay if the monsters use gobs of magic, so long as my player do not get it.  |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, magic should never be like candy. I'm all in favor of common low-level magics for the Realms, but not higher ones. Regenerating items for fifth-level characters sounds overbalanced.
Not only is it overbalanced, it also takes away an element of realism in your game (or as close to realism as one can get in a fantasy setting). This reminds me alot of the 'Elemental' type fan-created setting that was released last year. It was heavily based on the Realms, but nearly every peasant and farmer had access to +1 enchanted items, and/or weapons...and that is just wrong...
Sage, I quite agree with you. There are some DMs who often make the mistake of giving out good items at an early level. That makes a campaign very easy for the PCs. I remember playing one campaign where my party and I were so stocked and armed with powerful magic that we left behind a +3 vorpal sword in a cave because we thought it was too weak. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:24:11
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| Wow, what were you? Level 1 or something? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 05:49:37
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| Lol. No, the DM wasn't THAT easy on us. It was quite awhile ago so I don't really remember. I think it was around level 7... The only reason I remembered this was that when we found out that the weapon was a +3 vorpal sword, us PCs kinda complained. I was like, "As much as I like the weapon, I don't think an orc tribe would have vorpal swords and mighty staves." Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 07:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
I think it is a tricky bit of balancing; at lower levels magic should be relatively rare, and the finding of such an item should be a triumph. However, at higher levels the flow of magic needs to increase to some extent I think. Not hugely, but t some extent, otherwise you can be somewhat underpowered. I know, I've had it happen, and while adding a wee extra challenge I think the players resent being too magic starved at that point. I personally like to keep the settings low magic, or at least my parties. Its okay if the monsters use gobs of magic, so long as my player do not get it.
Some good points Edain. I think for the most part, magic use, and the level of magic in a campaign needs to be well regulated by the DM, and even the players to an extent.
Powergamers have a tendency (this is a generalisation and is not directed specifically at all powergamers) to overwhelm a 'weak' DM, and can sometimes bring about situations (especially with magical weapons) where high-magic becomes a focus for a game. This is not necessarily wrong, but it can serve to unbalance a campaign where magic usage has been well regulated.
Overall, the level of magic in a campaign should be decided before a game begins, or, if certain changes in the campaign's plot bring forth changes in the level of magic usage...Take the gods leaving Krynn during the Cataclysm, thereby cutting the population of Ansalong off from all forms of arcane and divine magic. PCs in this era would be playing in a very low-magic setting, but once the plot changes, and the magics are returned, the level of magic increases once again calling for the necessity of regulation to maintain balance.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 21:41:44
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DDH_101 mentioned dwarven craftsmen creating magic items. I have wondered for some time how this process works. After all, these dwarves(as far as I know) are not magic-users. So how is it possible for them to crats magic items of any kind, much less the powerful omes they are said to? Is it the mithral that they use? Or some strange, fairly passive form of spellcasting?
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 04:55:20
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| Sourcemaster, if you want to know you can read "The Crystal Shard" by RAS to find out. He describes the whole process of Bruenor crafting Aegis-Fang. Dwarves forge magical weapons and armour mainly through their skills. Some of them have such talent and skills for this kinda work that their products turn out to be very powerful. Some pray to their gods before working and the dwarven gods might take a liking to them and use their powers to help the weapon crafter make something powreful. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 06:41:40
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Actually DDH_101 has hit the mark. That scene in The Crystal Shard is probably the best and most accurate portrayal of Dwarven magical item creation. Make the effort and read through the relevant section, it should provide enough answers and atmosphere for you to understanding the fundamental prowess and skill that dwarven smiths use when forging their spectacular weapons of war...
I'll try and post some useful rules from the relevant tomes when I get a chance as well, unless somebody here beats me to it...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 07:45:10
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| Having magic I think is a novelty. If it's there and you can access it then, why not use it? It separates fantasy from the everyday drab real world events. Here we rely more and more on technology for survival. In FR they rely mostly on magic to get ahead. For one thing I can't survive without a car to get from one place to the other as well as doing mundane chores like shopping. The equivalent of a car in magical terms would be teleportation for travelling long distances; and boots of speed, potion of stamina and bracers of strength for shopping. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 13:57:23
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I can agree with magic being a novelty, at least to a point. In some settings, heavy magic usage is necessary, even encouraged...
I can't really comment on your car analogy though, for I must be the only person in Australia without a car, or a driver's license for that matter...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 19:20:09
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Lina, I quite agree with you. If FR didn't have so much magic, what's to seperate it from the other fantasy worlds or medival stories?
Sage, the car analogy isn't really about you having a car. Even if you don't have a car, you take the bus or get a taxi, right? Lol. In FR, you don't have to know how to teleport. You can always hire a wizard to do it for the right price. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 19:32:26
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Either that, or find a portal, steal a teleport without error scroll, and so on.
An another note, Wow Sage, you don't have a car? I never woud have guessed. It must be an issue of time though, as you are one of the smartest people I have met. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 01:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can agree with magic being a novelty, at least to a point. In some settings, heavy magic usage is necessary, even encouraged...
I can't really comment on your car analogy though, for I must be the only person in Australia without a car, or a driver's license for that matter...
You don't have a license! Well since Perth is mostly a car dependant city (public transport can be unreliable and not well set up, taxi's expensive as well) I don't see how you get around unless you live in suburbs closer to the city. Unless your like my younger brother who relies on his friends for transportation. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Too much magic?
