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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2014 : 03:52:44
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I just finished Night of the Hunter and have a couple speculations I would like to throw out.
Before I do, let me say I enjoyed the novel immensely and can't wait for the next one. I'd grown weary of Salvatore's stories, but The Companions has added a fresh rebirth to the stories of Drizzt that I am enjoying greatly.
Anyway, as pointed out by a fellow scribe or two here at the Keep, Cattie Brie makes a very polarizing statement about the goblinkin races. I'm providing exact quotes for clarity.
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"The goblinkin are not as the humans, the halflings, the elves, the dwarves, the gnomes ... even the drow."
But earlier she said,
quote:
"As you [Drizzt]see yourself, you hope to find in others -- in orcs and goblins even."
[Snip]
"But that cannot be, with only very rare exception."
And later Wulfgar says that Meilikki told her this, and Catti Brie affirms that.
I see absolutely no problem, nor change to lore here. It can be easily conformed to any viewpoint here at the keep. Meilikki is simply telling her that goblinkin tend to be evil, and that exceptions are rare.
By that statement, Obould could have been a rare exception, but because he can't live forever, an evil orc was bound to come along and turn the peaceful kingdom of Many Arrows to violence.
Personally, this is a no duh moment for me. We should have seen that violent turn coming. It was foreshadowed like crazy. Additionally, if you play the Neverwinter MMO, Many Arrows orcs are fighting for control of part of the city of Neverwinter, and that's been a major zone since the game went live. This shows that having the Kingdom of Many Arrows turn to war has been in the works, and is therefore little surprise.
However, Drizzt doesn't take it that way. He sees the statement as black and white, with him on the opposite side as his friends. This makes me wonder if somehow one of two things happened. Either, A) Cattie Brie misunderstood Meilikki's message. Or, B) Lolth somehow impersonated her rival and planted a false message to confound Drizzt. More on that in my conclusion.
My second observation, is that Lolth is evidently setting up to blow the powder keg that is the Silver Marches, and do so under the name of Do'Urden, and using the Kingdom of Many Arrows as her primary force.
Icewind Dale already has ceased to trust Drizzt. To surface dwellers, if Many Arrows starts to war, and the name of Do'Urden is mixed up with that in a negative light, they might see Drizzt as a plant, a spy, who orchestrated a false peace with the orcs, and allowed the "animals" to grow in number and, together with the Drow, make conquest on the Silver Marches. Alustriel is gone. The old King Bruenor is dead. Not many are living that hold enough sway to stop this kind of reasoning from taking hold if it starts.
This, combined with the conflict Drizzt has with his companions about the nature of the goblinkin, could really test his convictions.
I see it as a grand scheme of the Spider Queen to drive Drizzt to the breaking point.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 05:42:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Or, B) Lolth somehow impersonated her rival and planted a false message to confound Drizzt. More on that in my conclusion.
My second observation, is that Lolth is evidently setting up to blow the powder keg that is the Silver Marches, and do so under the name of Do'Urden, and using the Kingdom of Many Arrows as her primary force.
[...] I see it as a grand scheme of the Spider Queen to drive Drizzt to the breaking point.
Alas, a typical result of reading Bzzt Saga out of context of general Realms:
1) Ensign Mary Sue is so-o-o important to gods.
2) Lolth is the Universal Fallback Villain, spending effort and time to do nonsensical things For Teh Evulz.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 05:58:06
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I'm not saying he's important to all the gods. The novel is saying that Drizzt is important to Meilikki, and Lolth, right now. Why he's important to Lolth could be nothing more than The Spider Queen stirring up old Menzo because she's bored. But I'm thinking that's not what this story is building up to.
Ultimately, I think they're setting Lolth up to get knocked back in her place; going from the Greater Power she is in 4E to an Intermediate Deity. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Crystyn
Seeker
58 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 14:05:07
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I am not happy at all with goblinkin being irredeemably evil, I liked Obould and his stance on Human Orc relations.
Also take everything that happens in the Neverwinter MMO with a grain of salt there are inconsistencies. |
Finally completed my Drizzt collection |
Edited by - Crystyn on 04 May 2014 14:05:30 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 16:56:32
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| I'm not sure if it would be a change in lore, but that part of the novel certainly felt like "all goblinkin are evil no exceptions, Mielikki says so", especially when Nojheim was written off as probably having "goodly blood" in him. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 17:25:41
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I understand that's what it felt like. If it hasn't been for spoilers, I may have been caught off guard and felt the same. But Nojheim being written off was mortal speculation, not direct word from the goddess.
I think this still leans itself toward either a mortal misunderstanding the original intent of the message, or the message was a clever deception by Lolth.
As for the MMO, agreed, but at the same time, I'm still taking information from the MMO, it's not canon, but it could give us a hint of what is to come. By itself, yeah, I'd be sitting here saying, "well, they messed up" with the rest of the world. But all these plot points taken as a whole are too much for mere coincidence. We'll see, but I strongly suspect this is where Drizzt's story is going, or something close to it.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 04 May 2014 17:26:57 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 17:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I'm not saying he's important to all the gods. The novel is saying that Drizzt is important to Meilikki, and Lolth, right now. Why he's important to Lolth could be nothing more than The Spider Queen stirring up old Menzo because she's bored. But I'm thinking that's not what this story is building up to.
Ultimately, I think they're setting Lolth up to get knocked back in her place; going from the Greater Power she is in 4E to an Intermediate Deity.
I could be completely wrong, but I'm thinking we're watching and reading the final fall of Baenre. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 18:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
[quote]Originally posted by Delwa
I could be completely wrong, but I'm thinking we're watching and reading the final fall of Baenre.
I've thought the same, I'm just not sure yet. Salvatore has set Baenre up for fall before and not gone there. On the other hand, Baenre falling could damage Lolth and be a card that drags her back down. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 18:18:06
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The way RAS is playing things out, Baenre is supposed to get through this barely damaged even if things go wrong.
In my opinion, what the story really is setting up is having the Drow's influence on the surface world greatly diminished while at the same time getting rid of Many-Arrows to bring the status quo of the Realms back to how it was 100 years ago. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 18:22:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
The way RAS is playing things out, Baenre is supposed to get through this barely damaged even if things go wrong.
In my opinion, what the story really is setting up is having the Drow's influence on the surface world greatly diminished while at the same time getting rid of Many-Arrows to bring the status quo of the Realms back to how it was 100 years ago.
I'd agree. The sudden apparent laxness in Drow standards is kinda shocking. Males are given more deference, they have a Elf Matron Mother... it's like Lolth is spinning out of control in a desperate final bid to maintain her power. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 19:05:01
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The MMO is based heavily on the 4e Neverwinter sourcebook. This was what established Many-Arrows as a hostile faction - the MMO merely expanded upon that.
I find it hard to account for Drizzt's newfound respect for the civil rights of goblins. I agree that goblins aren't born evil but goblins have always been Drizzt's favoured enemy. The way I read the story with Nojheim was that he saw a kindred spirit in Nojheim - a rare goodly exile from an evil people who encountered the same prejudices that he faced (just not the fear people tended to have for him) and was upset because the bloke who had enslaved Nojheim had killed him before Drizzt could intercede on his behalf. It was more a dislike of slavery that this fostered than a newfound respect for goblins. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 20:39:37
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| Eh, to me Nojheim's story wasn't just a story about slavery, it was all about how Nojheim paralleled Drizzt, except that he hadn't found the respect Drizzt had. It was a kind of "what if?" situation about how Drizzt's life could have been a lot different. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 21:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
The way RAS is playing things out, Baenre is supposed to get through this barely damaged even if things go wrong.
In my opinion, what the story really is setting up is having the Drow's influence on the surface world greatly diminished while at the same time getting rid of Many-Arrows to bring the status quo of the Realms back to how it was 100 years ago.
True, but considering how Lolth was enraged after she lost her bid for Drizzt's soul, I could see her destroying half the Baenre compound in a fit of rage.
At the very least, we need to see House Barrison Del'Armgo finally attack the Baenre compound. Or a coalition of families. We have been hearing such wants and schemes for the last 20 some years, time for us to see it in action!
And while we may not get a Jarlaxle and Zak novel (I'm still holding out hope of course), maybe, we'll see a bunch of flashbacks from Jarlaxle that explains some of those questions RAS has left us with.  |
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Crystyn
Seeker
58 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2014 : 22:38:39
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| I like Gromph but Baenre needs another loss, Clan Battlehammer style, it'd be interesting if the Silver Marches decided to go on the offensive for once. |
Finally completed my Drizzt collection |
Edited by - Crystyn on 04 May 2014 22:39:11 |
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My Thoughts on Night of the Hunter *spoilers*
