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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 06:43:20
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Through the generosity of Eric Boyd, a copy of my revised North Timeline can be found here:
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/history.html
All feedback/comments are appreciated as always.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 07:04:39
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Interesting... When I have time to read through this more fully, I'll get back to you. Looks good, so far...  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 07:16:06
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| I look forward to reading this. Thanks for sharing George Krashos and thanks to Eric Boyd for the web space. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 09:01:56
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This is an extraordinary piece of work George...
I am yet again impressed by your remarkable and coherent grasp of the Realmslore...
I'll have more comments to follow, once I finish reading through the entire work.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jacinth Greyfox
Acolyte
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 13:00:53
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| Thanks for posting this George. |
The Throne or the Tomb! |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 13:54:24
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The dates for Aumar's important events are footnoted (as is pretty much everything else in the Timeline), in this case with no fewer than three different sources. The key source for the founding date is Races of Faerūn, page 92, which says "Some [Illuskans of the Sword Coast] migrated up the Delimbiyr Vale, settling... Athalantar (which lay between the High Forest and the river Delimbiyr) in 183 DR." The fall of Athalantar is similarly noted on page 93. "Athalantar fell to an orc horde from the High Moor in 342 DR, and its inhabitants eventually joined with the Blue Bear Uthrgardt tribe." The article cited throughout the Timeline for Athalantar, "The Athalantan Campaign: Role-playing in the FORGOTTEN REALMS of the young Elminster," is an excellent insight into Athalantan history and its short-lived royal line.
You'll also note that George has cited notes by himself, Ed Greenwood, and Eric Boyd, which means two things. First, that George was privy to information not available in published sources. Second, he participated in some of the decision-making for the country of Elminster's birth.
I can tell you from experience that these sorts of documents can often head into grueling detail, and are redacted over and over (and over and over) to account for newly published material. When afforded the free time to do it, George's research abilities are top-notch, and, given his participation in the pre-timeline discussions, I'm quite sure all his dates for Athalantar are quite accurate. |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 14:54:37
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| This will be grate fun to read since I am really interested on the history of the realms. The more detial the better. Even though it is dates with notes. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 15:50:12
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George,
Endlich! I'll proof this when I read it (do you really not want source titles italicized as appropriate?).
If this was published, what alphanumeric product code would you want it to have? |
Edited by - Faraer on 03 Apr 2004 15:50:49 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 18:10:02
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Hey all.
Athalantar first. Well, we knew when this realm was pretty much founded thanks to Ed's article in Dragon #228. It was Eric's and my decision to kill it in 342DR. The reason? Heck, there were a bunch. Firstly, Athalantar covered some of the same geographical area as the Fallen Kingdom which we decided was founded in 523DR. As such, Athalantar had to go before then. Similarly, we picked a time when Elminster, according to the sources, had left Myth Drannor and was 'away' (probably exploring the planes). We did this as we thought it unlikely that he would have sat idle and seen this kingdom destroyed. Also, we thought it was a good hook to start the inhabitants of the region (in this case the elves of Ardeep and the dwarves of Dardath) looking at an alliance which would in time become the Fallen Kingdom. All sorts of decisions like that played a role in almost every dating extrapolated from the 'official' material.
The impetus behind the North timeline was that I got to the stage where I had on my PC a Fallen Kingdom timeline, an Illusk timeline of my own devising, Eric's work on Uruth Ukrypt and in the official sources a Waterdeep timeline, a Silverymoon timeline, a broadbased (and sensational) timeline from the Cormanthyr product and bits and pieces. I thought it might be a good idea to put them all together. Then of course the completist in me thought that stuff in Volo's Guides to the North, Waterdeep and the Sword Coast should go in, as well as Ed's Wyrms of the North articles. Then I basically thumbed through every FR product and pestered Ed, Steven and Eric for anything else they could give me. I filled in the gaps and we arrived at the first North Timeline.
Then Silver Marches and Races of Faerun came out and I had to do some re-jigging and then I put all the references I'd been too lazy to add the first time and arrived at the Revised North Timeline. Really, it's only taken about 2 years to get to its current state ... 
Publishing, Faraer? This is a list of dates! Who in their right mind would publish something like this? If I had the time I'd do a historical narrative to go with the timeline but I'm on to other projects now. I'll leave that to someone with better writing skills than mine.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 18:38:00
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| I'd be proud to add to my shelf FRH1 Annals of the North. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 10:13:06
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Hmmm, FRH1 Annals of the North, FRH2 Annals of the East, et. al. Consolidated, annotated timelines for all the regions of Faerun. Well, I've done my cardinal point - anyone care to work on another?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 20:03:55
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hmmm, FRH1 Annals of the North, FRH2 Annals of the East, et. al. Consolidated, annotated timelines for all the regions of Faerun. Well, I've done my cardinal point - anyone care to work on another?
-- George Krashos
Time once was I had a timeline file that compiled the timelines/histories of Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea and Calimport....but I've since found the file was corrupted long ago and thus, I can't claim to help with a Annals of the South alas....
Steven
Who now wishes he had the time to rejigger all that together....but must pursue things that will ensure the rent gets paid next month... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 13:29:26
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No file is ever completely beyond redemption in terms of corruption... At least, as a programmer, that's what I've always believed.
So, I have two questions about this file Mr Schend. Firstly, how corrupted is it? And secondly, how long ago is...long ago...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 17:23:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No file is ever completely beyond redemption in terms of corruption... At least, as a programmer, that's what I've always believed.
So, I have two questions about this file Mr Schend. Firstly, how corrupted is it? And secondly, how long ago is...long ago...?
I'm afraid I have little patience when things go wrong on me, and the problem in this case was a corrupted 5 1/4" diskette which would not allow me to read or access the contents of itself at various times. What files I could recover were unable to be opened, so in the end, I deleted the bad files and threw away the diskette.
As for how long ago, I wrote Lands of Intrigue before and during the transition to Wizards of the Coast so the dates would have been late 1996 into 1997. Strange that some files go bad on me, but I've still got others from far longer back (including all the files from City of Splendors and partial files for things like DRAGON articles from 1991) that have not been corrupted for whatever reason.
Obviously, it's the whims of the luck gods as to what survives in full or not...
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 18:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No file is ever completely beyond redemption in terms of corruption... At least, as a programmer, that's what I've always believed.
So, I have two questions about this file Mr Schend. Firstly, how corrupted is it? And secondly, how long ago is...long ago...?
I'm afraid I have little patience when things go wrong on me, and the problem in this case was a corrupted 5 1/4" diskette which would not allow me to read or access the contents of itself at various times. What files I could recover were unable to be opened, so in the end, I deleted the bad files and threw away the diskette.
As for how long ago, I wrote Lands of Intrigue before and during the transition to Wizards of the Coast so the dates would have been late 1996 into 1997. Strange that some files go bad on me, but I've still got others from far longer back (including all the files from City of Splendors and partial files for things like DRAGON articles from 1991) that have not been corrupted for whatever reason.
Obviously, it's the whims of the luck gods as to what survives in full or not...
Steven
I came up with a theory, based on a Far Side comic. In this comic, there was a dark room. Some little guys with beards were removing a set of keys out of the pocket of a pair of jeans slung over the back of a chair, and another one was lifting a couch cushion and pointing underneath. The caption read "Car key gnomes"
So, my theory on why weird stuff occasionally happens with computers: it's e-gnomes! They're the ones that corrupt files and eat e-mails and things like that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 05:10:06
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I have a question -
What was the status of the avariel elves during the eras before, during, and after the time of Athalantar?.
I know that, during the early years of the kingdom, the Stag King fought against both elves and dwarves to establish his realm, but I've read nothing of the avariel concerning these conflicts.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2004 : 04:49:41
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I very much doubt that there were any avariel actively around during the time of Athalantar as Races of Faerun makes it pretty clear that they went into hiding very early on in Faerun's history. That said, look at the write-up of the elvish goddess Aedrie Faenya (sp?) in the Demihuman Deities product by Eric Boyd. It indicates that there was an avariel presence in the Star Mounts in the High Forest at one stage.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2004 : 05:35:10
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Thanks George .
I'd take a look at the Sage's copy of Races of Faerun, but he's rather protective of his FR tomes, and never lets them leave his house  .
I guess I'll just have to resort to using my feminine wiles .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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martynq
Seeker
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2004 : 17:00:05
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As with the previous version, this is excellent stuff, George.
Of course we'd all like to get our hands on the various sets of notes by the eminent sages Boyd, Greenwood, Krashos and Schend, but as noted in the start we cannot expect to.
More significant for me is that I notice I have missed some important Realmslore relating to the North by not getting hold of Dungeon #101 before it is too late! That was a big mistake... anyone know where I can get hold of a copy of the relevant adventure?
(Also would be nice if we could get hold of the info out of the various Polyhedron magazines, but I guess that too is now gone and irretrievable.)
Cheers, and thanks once more, George!
Martyn |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2004 : 05:33:41
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Oh c'mon Martyn you must have guessed by now that there are no notes whatsoever. I just make up everything as I go along and then use all those magic "Es" (Ed, Eric and Steven E.) to make everyone say, "Well, if it was in Ed's/Eric's/Steven's notes it MUST be right ..."
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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martynq
Seeker
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2004 : 08:56:57
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Nope, I hadn't guessed that. 
I supposed that I should have done... I'd noticed that some of the notes on the North were written by random selections from Boyd, Greenwood and Krashos, so perhaps I should have guessed. In particular, since these are supposedly notes on scraps of paper, yet other comments suggest you've not actually met up to write such scraps.
Of course, Dungeon #101 does exists... so why did I never try harder to get hold of a copy?
Martyn |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2004 : 09:35:26
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Well, there are 'notes' in the sense that there is information scattered throughout a bunch (and I mean a bunch) of e-mails, half-finished Dragon and Dungeon submissions, first, second and third draft timelines on more discreet sections of the North (ala Illusk, the Fallen Kingdom, Illefarn, etc.) and other bits and pieces (such as the Covenant). What I did was bring them all together into a coherent whole with the official 'canon' material. Along the way, I made up a heck of a lot of stuff. For this I make no apologies. It's not my fault that the sources, when read together, made it difficult for me to entertain an Illusk or a Gauntlgrym or a Port Llast that had been around for 1000+ years given the inherent dangers of the North. If I found a reference to a place and could date its founding then I tried to establish what happened to that place. If I found a reference to a battle or orc horde, I tried to fit in references as to who fought in that battle or defeated that orc horde. Basically, I tried to eliminate loose ends. The result ... well, others can judge for themselves.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 04:02:40
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Interesting. Gotta check this out more later. Sorry about the bump. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 15:42:28
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Thanks for the Bump, Brimstone- otherwise I'd have missed this amazing piece of Realmslore!
And Mr. Krashos, you remain a scholar and a gentleman- this is great stuff! |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 20:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Thanks for the Bump, Brimstone- otherwise I'd have missed this amazing piece of Realmslore!
And Mr. Krashos, you remain a scholar and a gentleman- this is great stuff!
No problem.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 21:16:26
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<sigh>
Daily updates from BRJ, then you bump this and I see all the items that didn't make it into GHotR. Yep... Lot of work for my calendar entries.
I did notice one thing in the entries. Maybe if George is around he can answer?
The file lists Dornal Silverhand (father of the Seven Sisters) as being slain by orc raiders in 797, but I recall some discussions on Ed's thread about how he's still around and can't (or won't) die. What's the story?*
* I know my story. This was a rumor being perpetrated after his apparent 'death' to make his life easier... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 22:30:12
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No problem Ashe, I aim to please.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Thanks for the Bump, Brimstone- otherwise I'd have missed this amazing piece of Realmslore!
And Mr. Krashos, you remain a scholar and a gentleman- this is great stuff!
Well, I used to be a scholar and a gentleman - now I'm just a lawyer.
This bit of threadomancy has made me realise that I really, really should get to work on my East Timeline and get that up and going also - that is, finish it.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:14:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I did notice one thing in the entries. Maybe if George is around he can answer?
The file lists Dornal Silverhand (father of the Seven Sisters) as being slain by orc raiders in 797, but I recall some discussions on Ed's thread about how he's still around and can't (or won't) die. What's the story?*
* I know my story. This was a rumor being perpetrated after his apparent 'death' to make his life easier...
The preamble in the "Seven Sisters" accessory explains the fate of Dornal Silverhand.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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History of the North
