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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:57:12
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I think I'd rather just use the first option. There's very little in the way of true Netheril historical development, for the reader to have to complete the trilogy to learn about all things-Netheril...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
WR,
Who wrote this trilogy?
Sword Play by Clayton Emery
Dangerous Games by Clayton Emery
Mortal Consequences by Clayton Emery
And I happened to like those novels. Shrug I thought they were interesting, guess I am in the minority there. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
And I happened to like those novels. Shrug I thought they were interesting, guess I am in the minority there.
Thanks for the answer kuje31, even though I asked WR. Wait, are you WR? Has he got two accounts here? Or two personalities? 
For arcane novels, I always wanted to see one set during one of the Crown Wars. Yes, I know that will never happen now. But, alas, one can think fondly on what if possibilities. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:26:33
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I agree with you Sirius. Considering both the depth and breadth that the Crown Wars encompassed as part of Realms history, it's a wonder why nothing even remotely approaching a novel has ever been written which details the period.
For me, the Cormanthyr boxed set didn't go into enough detail about the various Crown Wars. I've always felt like there should be something more...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:40:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Thanks for the answer kuje31, even though I asked WR. Wait, are you WR? Has he got two accounts here? Or two personalities?
For arcane novels, I always wanted to see one set during one of the Crown Wars. Yes, I know that will never happen now. But, alas, one can think fondly on what if possibilities.
No, Kuje31 and I are not the same hamster. Kuje31 is one of the few I respected over on the WotC forums -- he's one of the very few who's got more Realms stuff than me, and he knows it well. 
An Evermeet-style novel on the Crown Wars would be truly nifty. I'd buy it in a heartbeat, if not sooner.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 06:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Thanks for the answer kuje31, even though I asked WR. Wait, are you WR? Has he got two accounts here? Or two personalities?
For arcane novels, I always wanted to see one set during one of the Crown Wars. Yes, I know that will never happen now. But, alas, one can think fondly on what if possibilities.
No I aint Senile.... Er I mean WR. Grin I just answered quicker since I have all my novels written up on a Word file so it's easier to cut and paste them.
Thanks for the compliment Wooly! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 06:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
No I aint Senile.... Er I mean WR. Grin I just answered quicker since I have all my novels written up on a Word file so it's easier to cut and paste them.
Thanks for the compliment Wooly!
Senile? That, again? 
Allow me to bring up a former statement of SB's, since he's the one who first made that claim:
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Regardless, I'm happy in my deluded state
I rest my case.
As for the compliment, hey, I'm just giving credit where credit is due.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 07:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Senile? That, again?
Allow me to bring up a former statement of SB's, since he's the one who first made that claim:
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Regardless, I'm happy in my deluded state
I rest my case.
As for the compliment, hey, I'm just giving credit where credit is due.
True enough I like that statement. :) And thanks again, makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to realize some one appreciates my complaining and knowledge. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:27:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For me, the Cormanthyr boxed set didn't go into enough detail about the various Crown Wars. I've always felt like there should be something more...
Well, that's probably because "Cormanthyr" wasn't about the Crown Wars. Given the likely content of Rich Baker's "Last Mythal" novels I wouldn't be surprised if we get some more (likely indirect) information on the Crown Wars. And as for gaming products, well ... you never know ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:32:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
[quote]I haven't read through the Netheril boxed set yet. I'm still waiting to read the Arcane Age novels based in Netheril. Does the boxed set spoil the story in the Netheril trilogy in any way?
I never had the (mis)fortune of reading this novel trilogy, but the boxed set remains one of the FR products that I look at on my bookshelf and shake my head. Such a waste of what could have been a total tour de force FR product. If only they'd handed the baton onto Steven Schend just that bit sooner so he could have been the writer on this one ...
However, Netheril will get 'fixed'. Eventually. Eric already made some steps in the right direction in "Races of Faerun" and I know that if he gets the chance, anything Netherese will be ret-conned to fit a vision of Netheril more in line with that of Ed. Here's hoping - and soon.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 13:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For me, the Cormanthyr boxed set didn't go into enough detail about the various Crown Wars. I've always felt like there should be something more...
Well, that's probably because "Cormanthyr" wasn't about the Crown Wars. Given the likely content of Rich Baker's "Last Mythal" novels I wouldn't be surprised if we get some more (likely indirect) information on the Crown Wars. And as for gaming products, well ... you never know ...
-- George Krashos
I was merely referring to the detailed elven timeline in the boxed set. It included some details about the Crown Wars, but not enough to actually be that helpful.
I'd forgotten about Baker's work on the Last Mythal though. This is certainly one gnome who will be paying more than his usual lip service to the Lady of Luck...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 13:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
However, Netheril will get 'fixed'. Eventually. Eric already made some steps in the right direction in "Races of Faerun" and I know that if he gets the chance, anything Netherese will be ret-conned to fit a vision of Netheril more in line with that of Ed. Here's hoping - and soon.
-- George Krashos
For me, that was one of Races of Faerun's biggest selling points. When I'd first learned about that fact, I was so pleased that some of the details concerning Netheril had now received the attention they so sorely deserved. The first thought I had was "At last, Eric has saved Netheril for me"...
Here's a second hoping for Eric's remarkable work...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 14:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Given the likely content of Rich Baker's "Last Mythal" novels I wouldn't be surprised if we get some more (likely indirect) information on the Crown Wars.
Good point as that could occur.
quote:
And as for gaming products, well ... you never know ...
Well, in my deluded state, I recall some FR product about Lost Empires that was to come out in the future. To my knowledge, it was to focus on current sites that contain information/items/treasures/or just a good IHOP from old dynasties long gone. Who knows what might be left over from...what was it again? Five or Six Crown Wars? Boy, when the elves go at it, they don't do anything half way. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 20:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I agree with you Sirius. Considering both the depth and breadth that the Crown Wars encompassed as part of Realms history, it's a wonder why nothing even remotely approaching a novel has ever been written which details the period.
For me, the Cormanthyr boxed set didn't go into enough detail about the various Crown Wars. I've always felt like there should be something more...
One basic reason you'll never see a novel or trilogy on the Crown Wars is this: The bean counters consider elven history already done by EVERMEET.
Besides, you know how maddening it was to write FALL OF MYTH DRANNOR for me? And that was only a few decades, let alone 5000 odd years of warfare. THIS might make a better and easier novel or trilogy, as it'd still have some relevance to today's Realms, but I suspect other things are planned for Myth Draino right now....
Trust me, if ever in a position to pitch an elven history novel or series at WotC, I'd want to flesh out the Crown Wars as much as the next guy, but most likely, it'd end up most similarly to John Jakes' THE KENT FAMILY CHRONICLES from the 1970s--a multi-generational saga that covered a family of green elves that stood against the Vyshaan clan all the way from the start to end of all six Crown Wars. At least that's my idea, unsalable as it is....
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 21:07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Trust me, if ever in a position to pitch an elven history novel or series at WotC, I'd want to flesh out the Crown Wars as much as the next guy, but most likely, it'd end up most similarly to John Jakes' THE KENT FAMILY CHRONICLES from the 1970s--a multi-generational saga that covered a family of green elves that stood against the Vyshaan clan all the way from the start to end of all six Crown Wars. At least that's my idea, unsalable as it is....
Steven
Well, for what it's worth, and not much I know, I'd be there to pick up a copy of the novel. |
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Baalster
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 19:17:18
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Rystall Wood, is as I understand it, the old name for Border Forest. Or is it maybe so that Border Forest today is the western part of Rystall Wood ?
The first mentioning of Rystall Wood is in Cormanthyr sourcebook, in the elven timeline around -8800. It seems to be a prominent part of the elven history.
At -8130, Yrlaancel, the city of peace is built within Rystall Wood.
At -5000, Rystall Wood becomes a seperate forest. (relates to what I wrote above)
Time passes ...
DR 351, Year of the Dancing Deer, Yrlaancel grows with the influx of refugees and becomes Ondathel, Eldath's city of peace.
DR 555, Year of Dances Perilous, Ondath's High Mages recreate their city once again as Myth Ondath upon raising a mythal.
Even more time passes ...
Human time reconing year 2004, month 4, Baalster installs Update 3 of the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas. Find White Peaks, the mountains north of Border Forest, and plotted in there is: Myth Ondath and Forharn. Both of them _in_ the mountains.
Now, I don't know how this fits together. Is Myth Ondath in Rystall Wood or not ? Was there some volcanic activities that created the mountains ?
Anyone know this ? Any information you may have on Rystall Wood/Border Forest or Myth Ondath would be highly appreciated.
I have read up in Volo's Guide to All Thing Magical about the Gatekeeper's Crystal. And Ruins of Zhentil Keep (Snowmantle and Border Forest).
Baalster |
The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 03:37:46
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You have the (good?) fortune of having and reading all the current, extant realmslore on Rystall Wood. I've always thought that whilst Yrlaancel (Myth Ondath) was in the realm of Rystall Wood it was an independent city of sorts - mainly because it was a city dedicated to Eldath (not a particularly elven deity last time I checked ...)
Maybe Steven Schend can lend us a hand here ... 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Baalster
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 12:40:39
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I quote from Volo's Guide to All Things Magical:
"Shortly after the fall of the Netherese survivor states, a group of pacifistic refugees from the city of Rulvadar, fleeing goblin raiders from the south, made their way north and east to the desdolate wastelands known today as the Tortured Lands. Amidst the mountains at the northern extent of the Border Forest, northwest of present-day Whitehorn, the refugees encountered the descendants of a culture dedicated to inner peace and tranquillity which existed during the time of Netheril. Together the two groups founded Ondathel, City of Peace."
This definitely puts it north-west of Whitehorn, which is somewhat according to the Atlas map, even though the map seem to put it on the north side of White Peaks: http://whitehorn.stene.com/wh_canon_sites.jpg
(Pardon me for copying from the tome, it saves me from trying to explain this in 1000 words)
So assuming that the Volo tome is correct ( he usually is, isn't he? ) and the atlas is correct. Elves in the mountain ? Maybe there is a valley or something that makes it "livable". The story of the Elves in Rystall Wood, Yrlaancel and Ondathel is confusing at best. I have posted in the Questions for Ed Greenwood thread elsewhere in Candlekeep. The sage has yet to respond, mostly due to heavy workload and many questions from scribes.
My post here was to tickle the curiosity of others who might have knowledge or have read a tome somewhere about the area.
Many thanks,
Baalster |
The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords." |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 19:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
he's one of the very few who's got more Realms stuff than me,
Actually, you'd be surprised at the number of people who own every FR (game) product in existence... |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 01:07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Myth Draino
*snickers*
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Trust me, if ever in a position to pitch an elven history novel or series at WotC, I'd want to flesh out the Crown Wars as much as the next guy, but most likely, it'd end up most similarly to John Jakes' THE KENT FAMILY CHRONICLES from the 1970s--a multi-generational saga that covered a family of green elves that stood against the Vyshaan clan all the way from the start to end of all six Crown Wars. At least that's my idea, unsalable as it is....
Steven
Would your idea happen to be anything like the Sackett's series done by Louis L'amour (one of my all time fav authors by the way)? That would be really awesome to detail the adventures of one of the elven families using one interesting family member for each generation  |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
Edited by - Wood Elf Ranger on 29 Aug 2004 01:10:04 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 16:33:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Myth Draino
*snickers*
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Trust me, if ever in a position to pitch an elven history novel or series at WotC, I'd want to flesh out the Crown Wars as much as the next guy, but most likely, it'd end up most similarly to John Jakes' THE KENT FAMILY CHRONICLES from the 1970s--a multi-generational saga that covered a family of green elves that stood against the Vyshaan clan all the way from the start to end of all six Crown Wars. At least that's my idea, unsalable as it is....
Steven
Would your idea happen to be anything like the Sackett's series done by Louis L'amour (one of my all time fav authors by the way)? That would be really awesome to detail the adventures of one of the elven families using one interesting family member for each generation
While I love westerns as a genre, I've not read any L'amour. Still, from what you describe, the series sound similar. The Jakes stuff (for those who weren't around in the mid-70s or read them) started with THE BASTARD and had a half-noble French kid who emigrates to Boston to save his hide from retaliation by his father or enemies of same (been a while, so memory's rusty). The rest of the series traipsed through American history, the first two being on the Revolution, and the rest being on expanding west and/or dealing with the War between the States. Not great, but a good structure and vastly better writing than Jakes' earlier fantasy work.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Baalster
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 21:20:07
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norwayquote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You have the (good?) fortune of having and reading all the current, extant realmslore on Rystall Wood. I've always thought that whilst Yrlaancel (Myth Ondath) was in the realm of Rystall Wood it was an independent city of sorts - mainly because it was a city dedicated to Eldath (not a particularly elven deity last time I checked ...)
Maybe Steven Schend can lend us a hand here ...
-- George Krashos
I wonder if Steven Schend can lend us a hand, or possible point us in the direction where the answer may be found.
Many thanks,
Baalster |
The North is indeed as they say in the Vilhon Reach - a land of "hard, brutal men in leather and furs who swing overhasty swords." |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 18:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Baalster
Rystall Wood, is as I understand it, the old name for Border Forest. Or is it maybe so that Border Forest today is the western part of Rystall Wood ?
The first mentioning of Rystall Wood is in Cormanthyr sourcebook, in the elven timeline around -8800. It seems to be a prominent part of the elven history.
At -8130, Yrlaancel, the city of peace is built within Rystall Wood.
At -5000, Rystall Wood becomes a seperate forest. (relates to what I wrote above)
Time passes ...
DR 351, Year of the Dancing Deer, Yrlaancel grows with the influx of refugees and becomes Ondathel, Eldath's city of peace.
DR 555, Year of Dances Perilous, Ondath's High Mages recreate their city once again as Myth Ondath upon raising a mythal.
Even more time passes ...
Human time reconing year 2004, month 4, Baalster installs Update 3 of the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas. Find White Peaks, the mountains north of Border Forest, and plotted in there is: Myth Ondath and Forharn. Both of them _in_ the mountains.
Now, I don't know how this fits together. Is Myth Ondath in Rystall Wood or not ? Was there some volcanic activities that created the mountains ?
Anyone know this ? Any information you may have on Rystall Wood/Border Forest or Myth Ondath would be highly appreciated.
I have read up in Volo's Guide to All Thing Magical about the Gatekeeper's Crystal. And Ruins of Zhentil Keep (Snowmantle and Border Forest).
Baalster
Whew. Had to go back to August to find this question that Baalster sent me via email.....
As far as I know, both sources can be correct--it is in the Border Forest AND it can be in higher elevations. Can't speak re: the FRIA as I've not turned on my copy in years; all I can lay claim to is what I wrote, and I stand by that regardless of what supplemental licensed material says or shows.
Dunno about geologic activity but remember that what's marked as forest on the maps is the densest and thickest parts of forest, not necessarily the ultimate edge/end of trees. The woods of Cormanthyr could easily extend another few miles beyond their borders but be sparsely spaces trees and such. (My best example of this is noting in Lands of Intrigue that there are trees all over Tethyr including many small copses and local forests, but none to such a degree or size as to be noted on the maps. I.E. If it's got less than 100 trees in a square mile, it might not be mapped as such, but it's still mentally considered a forest by most travelers.)
Alas, no more info on Rystall Wood or Myth Ondath is leaping to mind at present. Did you have something specific you'd wished to know on this? I've not reread that stuff in a while either, so I'll even need a refresher on what I've said in the past.
Steven Schend |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 18:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Baalster
norwayquote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You have the (good?) fortune of having and reading all the current, extant realmslore on Rystall Wood. I've always thought that whilst Yrlaancel (Myth Ondath) was in the realm of Rystall Wood it was an independent city of sorts - mainly because it was a city dedicated to Eldath (not a particularly elven deity last time I checked ...)
Maybe Steven Schend can lend us a hand here ...
-- George Krashos
I wonder if Steven Schend can lend us a hand, or possible point us in the direction where the answer may be found.
Many thanks,
Baalster
As George put it and I agree, Yrlanncel might've been the term/name used by the elves for this city, but by the time it became Myth Ondath, it was most likely independent. Haven't the resources or time at hand to answer in more depth than that.  Mea culpa. |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Ancient Materials: Beginning of Time/Arcane Info
