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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 18:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Indeed...
And.. "A bit higher priced than most RPG releases on the floor"? I'm sorry, guy, but something that retails for 2.5 times what the pricier game books go for is something more than "A bit higher priced"!
Yeah, I guess some people's version of "a bit" is different than my own.
<Sigh> I need to be careful. I'm going to be accused of AEG bashing soon no doubt.  |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 19:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Indeed...
And.. "A bit higher priced than most RPG releases on the floor"? I'm sorry, guy, but something that retails for 2.5 times what the pricier game books go for is something more than "A bit higher priced"!
Yeah, I guess some people's version of "a bit" is different than my own.
<Sigh> I need to be careful. I'm going to be accused of AEG bashing soon no doubt.
Probably not (for the definition of "a bit higher"). I just picked up Dungeon 114, and quickly became annoyed with the advertising for this product. That alone will keep my money in my pocket when it comes to it (considering I was surprised to find Eberron is $40; I was expecting it to top out at $30 on that).
As for AEG, I've read some of their short adventures, which seem all right (for a quick read - nothing I saw was glaringly unexpected). I just don't care for how they're hyping this particular tome, and will shy away from it for that reason. |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 21:32:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
Probably not (for the definition of "a bit higher"). I just picked up Dungeon 114, and quickly became annoyed with the advertising for this product. That alone will keep my money in my pocket when it comes to it (considering I was surprised to find Eberron is $40; I was expecting it to top out at $30 on that).
What's annoying about the advertising? More annoying then some of the advertising for another product that was released this year?
quote:
As for AEG, I've read some of their short adventures, which seem all right (for a quick read - nothing I saw was glaringly unexpected). I just don't care for how they're hyping this particular tome, and will shy away from it for that reason.
That's right, they made those mini-me adventures. Those weren't bad. I liked the Dark Elf City of Hosuth (I think that's the name). That little mini-me tome could be easily placed into the Realms. |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 22:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
What's annoying about the advertising? More annoying then some of the advertising for another product that was released this year?
This is the first Dungeon I've read in a while (I don't have a subscription, so I buy them as I remember or off eBay when a particular issue gets good 'press'). It just seem that every other page was as ad for it, and by the time I hit the 'paladin' one, my thought was "OK, this is just plain stupid." But, that was my impression. Mileage may vary.  Since I'd already heard of the tome here, and the price, the ads seemed, well, now we know why the price is high - to cover the advertising costs! 
quote:
That's right, they made those mini-me adventures. Those weren't bad. I liked the Dark Elf City of Hosuth (I think that's the name). That little mini-me tome could be easily placed into the Realms.
I got a couple of them, too (names escape me) and by and large, they seem good, if short, adventures. |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2004 : 03:57:31
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| GamingReport has some information on GENCON sales for this product. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2004 : 05:30:48
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
GamingReport has some information on GENCON sales for this product.
3/4 of a ton, huh? Considering the size of the tome, that's what, 3 books?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2004 : 06:52:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
3/4 of a ton, huh? Considering the size of the tome, that's what, 3 books?
Yep, I hear there are beeping sounds warning that heavy equipment is being moved whenever a buyer leaves a store with this product. |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2004 : 21:02:29
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It just sounds so damned impressive when they say 3/4 of a ton. but even if you figured the books to only weigh 5lbs a piece, and considering it's size, that's not all too unrealistic... that's only 300 copies... They make it sound great when they tell it by weight... then you do the math... *chuckles* poor guys at AEG. I can't imagine they've even made a dent in the money they spent developing the book...
On a side note, SB, I like ur new portrait.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2004 : 22:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Karesch
*chuckles* poor guys at AEG. I can't imagine they've even made a dent in the money they spent developing the book...
No idea on development cost versus the number of sales they must make to get a profit. I am curious to read some reviews of the product. Anyone find any posted yet?
quote:
On a side note, SB, I like ur new portrait.
K
Thanks Karesch.  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2004 : 16:36:25
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In his weekly column, Line of Sight, Monte Cook had the following to say about this product:
quote:
Okay, so I haven't read it yet. But neither have you, even if you got one at the show like I did. It's frickin' huge. It might be the coolest adventure since... I don't know, but cool. I don't know yet. Still, it's on my Gen Con picks list because of its audacity and gumption. It's a hundred-dollar book, but you get a lot of adventure for your money. I'd say quite literally more than you'll ever need. Will anyone play through the whole thing? Probably. But not many. You could, in fact, stage some kind of charity dungeon-a-thon and get pledges for how long the group can stay hacking away at the thing. It's going to take a couple of years, most likely. For $100, I wish it had more art and looked more attractive, but I suppose you could make a good argument that someone buying a product called "the World's Largest Dungeon" isn't going to be influenced by artwork
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2004 : 19:48:31
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Well met
...and don't ye come crying to me with all manner of wounds should thee venture into this new dungeon. 
::sigh::
Some folk ne'er learn, I told them and warned them about Undermountain, and look what happened! ...and now this, they won't be told....
::wanders off shaking his head and muttering:: |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2004 : 07:39:50
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Hello All,
As fate would have it I got a chance to look at the book today at my FLGS.
My first impression was that it’s worth the money.
My second was that it could easily fit in the Realms, regardless of whether it was used as a level 1 to 15 dungeon crawl or broken up piecemeal fashion and utilized in parts by a DM.
The origin of the dungeon is very creative IMO. It was once a vault built by Celestials to imprison the various evils of creation, and built so very long ago that even the Gods forgot about it. The movement of continents, the dawn of civilization and all the other rigors of time (erosion, earthquakes, etc.) have served to crack its gates and allow some of its horrors to escape, as well as allow other more recent horrors to move in. Even the two noble Titans that journeyed from far away to guard the dungeon’s cracked entrance couldn’t keep everything inside.
I also noted a goodly amount of support material in the book, ranging from reasons to adventure in the dungeon, ideas on sustained dungeon ecologies, lists of new dungeon traps of all kinds, etc…
Unfortunately I couldn’t take a good look at the maps, as they came separately in a shrink wrapped pack with cardboard backing on one side.
I don’t have any plans to use this book IMC (though I’d be sorely tempted when my current campaign ends), but will ask for it as a Birthday or Christmas gift all the same.
As to Dargoth’s original question at the top of the thread: Very, very easy to incorporate. 
One other thing: The sales associate I talked to when I was looking at the book noted that I was the second or third person that day to say how The Worlds Biggest Dungeon reminded me of Undermountain.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2004 : 12:03:41
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Can anyone explain to me why "The World's Largest Dungeon" would just happen to have been built in such a way that it can be neatly laid out and printed on rectangular paper 
This whole things seems about as contrived as I can possibly imagine.
$100 for an adventure  
Good luck to anyone using it, but it's not for me
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2004 : 17:10:00
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I would really like to take a look at this product, however its all shrink-wrapped together. Maybe there'll be a display copy somewhere at GENCON in a few weeks.
It is VERY expensive though and i'm just not sure I can justify paying that for a generic dungeon.
Sanishiver, what is the quality of the book like? In print, pictures etc. What was the layout like, was it just room numbers with a DM-to-player readable description and a stats block? I hope that the space isnt taken up in the book by repeating all the info for each monster, being as the product states that all creatures from the Monster Manual are encountered within the dungeon. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 07:41:22
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Hi Rad (and Dargoth),
Good questions all, for which (unfortunately) I don’t think I can provide a precise, informed answer. What follows is drawn from my imperfect memory.
It looked like the book didn’t go into great detail on monster stats (but don’t quote me on that, my memory is already fading… I’ll have to have another look this weekend if I can find time).
Also, I recall a disclaimer of sorts in the book’s Intro that stated they didn’t actually use “every” single monster (that is, they didn’t use every age category of every kind of dragon), but they did put at least one of each kind of monster in the book.
As for the layout, it struck me how the pencil (no color/computer aided pix that I recall) drawings inside had a ***very*** 1st Edition feel. I even had a feeling of déjà vu from looking at them, as though I was once more in the 2nd Grade, sneaking peaks at one of my mom’s old 1E modules “borrowed” from home, while the teacher droned on.
The drawings weren’t dark and heavy drawings like those in Sword and Sorcery books depicting the Scarred Lands. Rather, they used equal parts light and dark and were very suggestive (which is just what a DnD book needs if it’s to get your imagination rolling).
The font seemed “normal” size; it didn’t look like they shrunk it down to fit more words into the book. The font and layout were readable and seemed easy on the eyes.
Lastly, It’s a bummer you can’t have a good look at the interior of the book. Maybe I can convince the owner of my FLGS to open a new store in the UK, and make me manager? ;)
@Dargoth: As I said in my earlier post, it looks rather easy to incorporate. The Intro to the book states that the dungeon is built to be used in chunks of varying size (depending on the DM’s needs); and this seems born out by the useful looking black and white two page section in the Intro that shows all the maps connected together, and thus the variety of dungeon terrain comprising the dungeon itself. Also, there are factions/groups within the dungeon that could be plopped down whole into Undermountain, and either used as is or incorporated as “pets” of Halaster, plotters in Skullport or secret societies that have “regular” lives above in Waterdeep or perhaps the greater Sword Coast.
:D |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 08:25:18
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| Well one of my Players has bought the TWLD and we start playing it on Sunday (So that means it wont be incorporated into Undermountain) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 12:01:25
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Thanks for the report Sanishiver It sounds just like I expected, with the interior art in particular.
I took a look at the PDF download over at AEG and the map isnt very impressive. As Kahonen states, its very uniformly fitting on sheets of rectangular paper, joined by simble 10ft wide corridors. To me, the large maps of Undermountain are much more impressive.
If I see it one year for £20 then ill grab it, but other than that....nah |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2004 : 07:25:08
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Hi Guys and Gals,
I got a chance to thumb through TWBD again today during a brief break from work. Some revisions and retractions to my last post are in order:
They did print the book in a smaller font. I compared the letters in the TWBD to those in a copy of the 3.5 MM and found the TWBD letters to be just a bit smaller. I’m no font expert, but I’d say one or two points smaller at least.
As for monsters, it looks like they did in fact reprint quite a bit of monster stats, which is disappointing. The Intro to the book warns DMs not to skip over the listed creature stats because it says the TWBD designers frequently altered creature stats and abilities, as well as added class levels in order to better suit the theme and setting of the encounter where said creature(s) are encountered.
However, I randomly checked a few monster entries against the MM copy I had used to compare font sizes earlier and found only verbatim stats. They would’ve been better off just listing the differences in place of a full stat block, like WotC did in Bastion of Broken Souls.
That said, I’d still very much like to add this book to my library.
:D
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2004 : 16:48:56
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| I've seen a couple of reviews recently for this product. Did any of scribes here eventually purchase this product with or without plans to place it within the Realms? |
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Anyone got the Worlds Largest Dungeon source book?
