| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Morgagni
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 11:02:58
|
It's possible that Shimmergloom, before her death in Garumn's Gorge, have made a pact with the Cult of Dragon  and maybe her phylactery (as a dracolich) were far from Mithril Hall so she's still alive (her spirit)???
But: A dracolich, like any other undead don't suffer the mass damages that probably have killed her...or not???
P.S. Sorry for my bad english... 
|
|
|
Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 12:48:38
|
Dracoliches can take heavy punishments without feeling much pain except annoyance but they are vulnerable to holy weapons and divine magic which can inflict pain on them.
Dracoliches like every lich has a phylactery, a kind of gem which supposed to store the soul or life essence of the lich that anchor the lich to mortal plane. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich soul is banished off the mortal plane, if it is intact, but the physical form of the lich is destroyed, still, the lich soul can wait to animate another suitable corpse or it will return in another form. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
 |
|
|
Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 12:53:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Morgagni
It's possible that Shimmergloom, before her death in Garumn's Gorge, have made a pact with the Cult of Dragon and maybe her phylactery (as a dracolich) were far from Mithril Hall so she's still alive (her spirit)???
But: A dracolich, like any other undead don't suffer the mass damages that probably have killed her...or not???
P.S. Sorry for my bad english...
It’s defiantly possible. If your players (Or just you) are huge fans of RAS’s work and all know who Shimmergloom is, then having that particular dragon show up to beat the snot out of the PC’s would be a grand idea. Nice reactions at the table, I would think. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:06:03
|
I'll say this, the "mass damage" impact at the bottom of the gorge was probably not what killed the beast, so much as the flaming berserk dwarf whacking away at it's back. Either way, I don't think there are any special immunities to falls for being undead... in fact, a planet just mught be the ultimate bludgeoning weapon.
I suppose it's possible that the Cult of the Dragon had gotten to Shimmergloom, but you would want to be careful as to how you established that. I cant see the Druegar letting any old cultist through to their godhead. You might also review the end of "Streams of Silver" and the begining of "Halfling's Gem" for particulars.
Now, as far as how it all went down, it's entirely possible the dragon had the needed spells in place "just in case", and revived some days later (I think the delay on a lich returning is like 2d4 days.) only to leave to seek out it's phylactery before the assault on Mithril Hall was made.
Consulting a map of the realms, there are numerous dungeons in the area, (Dungeon of Ruin, etc...) any of which could be a suitable resting point for a new Draco-lich. |
Edited by - Forge on 24 Jun 2005 14:07:30 |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:11:58
|
| Er - well, anything is possible, so if you want Shimmergloom to be a shadow dragon dracolich, go right ahead. However, as Forge has pointed out, if you want consistency, you would have to come up with a way for the cultists to discover Mithral Hall's location, find Shimmergloom and convince him to become a dracolich. |
|
|
|
Morgagni
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:14:56
|
Tnx friends
|
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:21:48
|
| One other interesting item of note. If I recall, Shadow Dragons are native to the plane of shadows, and have a negative energy breath weapon... I would speculate that becoming a lich would do nothing if not increasing the strength of such a breath weapon... Wicked if you ask me. |
|
|
|
Morgagni
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:40:42
|
| Yes, I think so! I don't know the scores of other shadow dragons-dracoliches like Aurgloroasa or Shhuusshuru but I have a something like this in my mind |
Edited by - Morgagni on 24 Jun 2005 14:43:31 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 15:07:00
|
To avoid the whole "the cult Mithril Hall first" issue you have a few options. The cult could have made contact with it on the plane of Shadow. In fact, it could have been dead and dying from the multiple axe wounds, the fall, and the fire, and somehow drifted into the plane. Or this could have happened in the Plane of Shadow a few years before Bruenor busted it up.
Don't forget that Melegaunt Tanthul knew of Shimmergloom and was under the impression that Shimmergloom was dead, meaning that if it did survive, it likely is lying low for a while. |
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 15:34:20
|
| If I recall the story correctly, there was a gateway to the Shadow Plane in the depths of Mithril Hall, or in the Underdark near the bottom of Mithril Hall. |
|
|
|
Lord Desolation
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 20:45:06
|
| I dont think that shimergloom survived the fall or the fire. But the dracolich coming back is posible. If you did bring it back it would want to take the dreugar and reclame the hall. |
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die." |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 22:01:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
If I recall the story correctly, there was a gateway to the Shadow Plane in the depths of Mithril Hall, or in the Underdark near the bottom of Mithril Hall.
Yup. Like the dwarves of a certain other fantasy series, the dwarves of Mithril Hall "delved too deeply," only instead of awakening a Balrog, they opened a gate to the Plane of Shadows, through which Shimmergloom came.
Something I've wondered about - could the Cult create a dracolich from the bones of a dead dragon, or do they need a absolutely need a living subject? The latter, I think, otherwise Faerun would be overrun by dracoliches. Still, one could have the Cult having recently created a necromantic ritual allowing them to create dracoliches from dead dragons. The Cult has numerous necromancers in its ranks, so it's not implausible - especially with the recent return of the Cult's founder... |
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 22:30:30
|
LD, a few considerations... If Shimmergloom DID become a dracolich, she would likely take some time to recover before returning.
And at that point the Dwarves were likely entrenched, the Druegar routed and the Drow en route. Not a good time to try and make a comeback.
Krafus, there have been some allusions to the "Liching" process having to be a consentual process, otherwise you just get a Dragon Zombie/Skeleton. |
Edited by - Forge on 24 Jun 2005 22:32:57 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 22:59:38
|
| Becoming a dracolich requires participation on the part of the dragon. That's why the Cult is always trying to recruit dragons, rather than killing them or waiting for them to die. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 01:50:03
|
| True, The Cult of The Dragon often tried to convince dragons to become a dracolich. But some dracoliches became disillusioned withe the Cult and somehow either ignored them or turned against them. To convince a dragon to become a dracolich, I guess it takes a lot of gold, gems and treasure to at least get the wrym attention to listen to Cult proposal. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 20:19:05
|
Just an idle musing I had, but with Shimmergloom being a native of the plane of Shadows, it may be that she has some connection/familiarity with Shade and it's denizens.
Additionally, there was very little in the way of spellcasting done by the dragon if I recall, and arcane magics were not the thrust of the book, but it would be another twist if she turned out to cast using shadowweave or had other tie-ins to the Shades. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 22:18:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Just an idle musing I had, but with Shimmergloom being a native of the plane of Shadows, it may be that she has some connection/familiarity with Shade and it's denizens.
Additionally, there was very little in the way of spellcasting done by the dragon if I recall, and arcane magics were not the thrust of the book, but it would be another twist if she turned out to cast using shadowweave or had other tie-ins to the Shades.
Well, it's possible that Shimmergloom knew of Shade... But then again, maybe not. Planes are rather large areas. It's possible that you know of the town I live in -- after all, we are on the same plane -- but it's just as likely that you don't. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 23:05:32
|
| Melegaunt Tanthul mentioned Shimmergloom's death in the first of the ROTAW books, so Shade knew of Shimmergloom, even if Shimmergloom didn't know of Shade . . . |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:52:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Melegaunt Tanthul mentioned Shimmergloom's death in the first of the ROTAW books, so Shade knew of Shimmergloom, even if Shimmergloom didn't know of Shade . . .
No, one Shadovar knew of Shimmergloom. That doesn't mean anyone else did (it's possible, but I prefer to stick to Occam's Razor).
Remember, he'd been walking the Realms for a while -- more than enough time for him to have heard of Shimmergloom thru entirely mundane means. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 03:28:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Melegaunt Tanthul mentioned Shimmergloom's death in the first of the ROTAW books, so Shade knew of Shimmergloom, even if Shimmergloom didn't know of Shade . . .
No, one Shadovar knew of Shimmergloom. That doesn't mean anyone else did (it's possible, but I prefer to stick to Occam's Razor).
Remember, he'd been walking the Realms for a while -- more than enough time for him to have heard of Shimmergloom thru entirely mundane means.
Indeed. And considering the usual dwarven fashion of relating great exploits through song, Shadovar could have just as easily learned about Shimmergloom during his time in the North. Or through bardic tales sung on streets corners.
Good stories never fade...
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 12:52:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Melegaunt Tanthul mentioned Shimmergloom's death in the first of the ROTAW books, so Shade knew of Shimmergloom, even if Shimmergloom didn't know of Shade . . .
When did he say that? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 17:33:55
|
| You know, I can never find references in novels, but it was when he was discussing current events with Vala in the first book (obviously, lol). |
|
|
|
Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 17:49:31
|
Well, when I posed the question, it was purely hypothetical. My reasoning is that if a giant flaoting city of extra-planear people just popped into Toril, it would make ripples. Likewise with Plane of Shadow, going and coming from the Plane of Shadows, ESPECIALLY with the help of a Diety. Second, most magi in the Realms have a pretty good idea what dragons are about, simply for self-preservation if nothing else. I would imagine a similar levle of knowledge would exist in Shade.
Now, just because they know OF each other doesn't mean they KNOW each other, but they might feel akin should one need assistance and/or succor. |
|
|
|
Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
|
|
Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
|
|
Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 16:01:30
|
Indeed. And considering the usual dwarven fashion of relating great exploits through song, Shadovar could have just as easily learned about Shimmergloom during his time in the North. Or through bardic tales sung on streets corners.
Good stories never fade...
Spoiler Warning !!!
I don't think anyone could have heard about shimmergloom from tavern tales. After all, Breunor was the King of Mithril hall and even he forgot totally about Mithril hall until he took the potion from Malchoir Harper. In fact, until Breunor went to Mithril hall in Streams of Silvers, No one know anythin about mithril hall.
Last point to make here, if Shimmergloom truly was a dracolich, the companions of the hall would have been wiped out completely. There is no way the companions of the hall could defeat a shadowdragon lich. No offense to RAS lovers, i'm just stating a fact here. Don't get angry. I'm also a big fan of RAS too. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 16:06:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Anyone know where I can find his stats??
Shimmergloom, Great Shadow Wyrm, Resides in Mithril Hall, The Savage Frontier
Shimmergloom, Great Shadow Wyrm, Resides in Mithril Hall, Volo's Guide to the North
No idea if there are 3/3.5e stats and if you want to find more 1e and 2e stats, see my sig where I made a data base from the canon sourcebooks. I really need to finish turning those into HTML for Alaundo. He has some of them on the candlekeep site as well and they can be found in last months or the months before update. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 16:26:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Indeed. And considering the usual dwarven fashion of relating great exploits through song, Shadovar could have just as easily learned about Shimmergloom during his time in the North. Or through bardic tales sung on streets corners.
Good stories never fade...
Spoiler Warning !!!
I don't think anyone could have heard about shimmergloom from tavern tales. After all, Breunor was the King of Mithril hall and even he forgot totally about Mithril hall until he took the potion from Malchoir Harper. In fact, until Breunor went to Mithril hall in Streams of Silvers, No one know anythin about mithril hall.
Last point to make here, if Shimmergloom truly was a dracolich, the companions of the hall would have been wiped out completely. There is no way the companions of the hall could defeat a shadowdragon lich. No offense to RAS lovers, i'm just stating a fact here. Don't get angry. I'm also a big fan of RAS too.
I would say that they would give one a run for it's money. Look at Spellfire. Granted, they don't have Elminster and a young spellfire wielding lass, who seems to burn through her clothing quite often , running with them.
|
|
|
|
Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 19:00:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Anyone know where I can find his stats??
Shimmergloom, Great Shadow Wyrm, Resides in Mithril Hall, The Savage Frontier
Shimmergloom, Great Shadow Wyrm, Resides in Mithril Hall, Volo's Guide to the North
No idea if there are 3/3.5e stats and if you want to find more 1e and 2e stats, see my sig where I made a data base from the canon sourcebooks. I really need to finish turning those into HTML for Alaundo. He has some of them on the candlekeep site as well and they can be found in last months or the months before update.
Can't get his stats through those links. Somethin wrong with them. I found them on WotC, yet no stats for Shimmergloom. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
Edited by - Drakul on 25 Mar 2006 19:23:59 |
|
|
|
Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 19:39:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Last point to make here, if Shimmergloom truly was a dracolich, the companions of the hall would have been wiped out completely. There is no way the companions of the hall could defeat a shadowdragon lich. No offense to RAS lovers, i'm just stating a fact here. Don't get angry. I'm also a big fan of RAS too.
RAS would make it happen. His characters never lose.
Spoiler for PotWK by RAS
In promise of the witch king Artemis and Jarlaxle take out a dracolich, its not a shadow dragon but then again Artemis and Jarlaxle are not his money making Drizzt and company either. |
|
|
|
Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
Shimmergloom still alive??
