| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 06:53:48
|
Okay, the lythari that is in the group has been unduly interested in evil. Evil spells, dark speech, etc. The party has always managed to drag him more or less back to Chaotic neutral, but he is constantly tempted, and my son really wants to play him as evil.
Since they kids only play during school breaks, and since the PCs are going to eventually go on a quest to try to recover an item greatly desired by Malarites, I was temped to start to temp the lythari with promises from Malar. While he would learn some spells and feats from his association with Malar, the real jist of this wouldn't happen until the party found the item, when the lythari would be called upon to seize the item for himself and the glory of Malar.
The problem is, even with the lythari being a part time party member, I am afraid, however classic this plot hook would be, that this might undermine party trust and the like, and their trust in me.
Do you think something like this can be pulled off without the players thinking that you are an evil little worm? If it can work, how would you make it work? Thanks for any input.
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 07:16:37
|
I hope it works out for you, but I will always remember back in the day when I got my basic d&d, red box set for x-mas. I had to basically sell my mom on that, d&d was not satanic rituals and all that, we fought the good fight, and were always against the bad guys. I don't know but it has always stuck, now as i'm older I can add a lot of grey areas, but overall it ends up as the forces of good(we the group) out against the evil minions of fantasy.
I can see how it would be difficult to play out as it seems that one member of the party is pulling away from the rest, I am almost picturing anikin squaring off against obi-wan on that lava planet.
I would say roll with it, at the least it seems loke some good role playing. Maybe in the end though the character, turning evil could end up betraying the party at some crucial point in an adventure. He could end up the leader of some evil band that always shows up at the least opportune time to foil the bands quests or whatever. I think that in the end to save everyones feelings of trust, this character could become an NPC leader of sorts, and the player who got him this way could get the opportunity to role play him during those times only. It would be a retirement of sorts, keep the group playing well together, no hard feelings, and the character can still develop and be played in the campaign.
my 2 cents worth, I hope it helps a little. |
 |
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4703 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 16:28:41
|
| Well you can discuss it with the players as well to see how they will feel about it. What though might happen even if the players are comfortable with an evil member part of the team, is that at some point they might feel compelled to kill (or at least try to) your sons character. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 17:08:29
|
I really don't think it is a good idea to have an evil character unless all the PC's are evil (or neutral with a tendencie towards evil). We've had stuff like that in our games before and it never ends well.
The one exception to this is the part time stint. For example. My character died once and there was going to be a little while before the party could get him ressurected so the DM told me about an ambush that was planned for the near future and I played an assassin that led the party into the ambush. The other party members thought I was just bringing in a new character.
That wasn't a big deal because the guy was only around for about 2 or 3 sessions. Having a character that's evil around for the duration of the campaign is a bit different in my opinion. However, you mentioned the PC in your game is a part-time player so it may work.
I would talk to your players about it. You may feel like you're ruining some of the surprise of the campaign but if they're good role-players it should be okay. |
|
|
|
Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 18:35:08
|
Just remember that evil is also a very broad description. A Neutral Evil party member might just be extremely selfish and not willing to lift a finger unless it totally benefits them. An evil character can work along with neutral/good characters (besides Paladins) as long as the overall goal is in line. I hate to do this, but, remember Malik's role in Return of the Archwizards - he helped, but only as long as it was in his and the Black Sun's sights.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:31:13
|
| Having the campaign villain be part of the party would be hard to pull off, unless he was really sneaky and worked thru intermediaries. Otherwise, he'd be unable to pull off his evil plots, because the good guys are right there with him! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Dec 2005 03:32:07 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:41:39
|
Okay, this woudl be the crux of it. The druid/rogue of Meilikki is already on a quest (long term) to recover a heart sacred to Malar, that if eaten, would grant the devourer great power. There is already a druid werewolf of the Black Blood looking for this and opposing the Malarite. Essentially how this would work out is that the lythari that has been tempted by evil will start to get visits from Malarite divine representatives offering him access to evil spells, dark speech, etc. But the whole time, he would just be travelling with the party and helping them find the heart. It would only be at the end, when the heart is found, that he would be told to take the heart and devour it, thus springing the trap. In essense, the lythari would be Malar's back up plan if his druid werewolf couldn't get the heart first.
I wouldn't try this if the lythari were always with the party, but since my son only plays part time, he will play with the group over Christmas break, Spring break, and then next summer, when the campaign will start up seriously with this plot thread.
I'm still not sure of it, but I think if everyone is okay with it in the end, it would be a major coup and a plotline that is much more in line with some classic doublecrosses. As long as no one gets too upset that is. Thats what I am worried mainly about. I more or less expect the lythari to end up dead, but my son once in a while reconsiders making such a level adjustment monster of a PC anyway. |
|
|
|
Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 15:38:36
|
Something like this happened to a party I belonged to. One of our long time comrades in arms had a series of unfortunate encounters with evil objects. He picked up a book of evil, wielded an evil sword was charmed by a vampire, possessed by a demon and had his soul temporarily taken by a lich. All of this, and having a hot chick in the party like another party member drove him nuts.
Eventually we had that player take over as GM to run his character as an evil villain for about half a year. The main issue we had was that he knew all of our strengths and weaknesses. He knew all of our tactics, and he was able to plan for them very, very well.
Eventually we killed him, but not before our half-elven cleric was turned into a duerger, the hot chick was tortured and had all of her limbs broken, our elven cleric lost two of his favorite items, and our happy cheerful rogue was so twisted by the experiences that he slipped in alignment. Our mage who saw her friends fate really slipped in alignment from neutral good to neutral evil. The only character that got out of the event relatively unchanged was the party fighter who’s outlook on life was such, that bad things happen only so that we can enjoy the good things more.
Having a previous character become a villain was a very painful experience. I think that if we were younger we may have had issues, and bad blood between players. I would be very careful about making one of your players a villain, if there is any animosity amongst the players already, turning one of them into a villain will serve to make it all much worse.
If you were to turn him into an evil villain, I would get his permission to remove his character from his control and turn him into an NPC villain. If they are young (read 21 or younger) and hot headed I think that having his character become a villain under his control could be a group destabilizing event. But if they are extraordinarily mature, it can make for some of the most poignant and hair raising adventures.
|
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 17:55:47
|
| I agree with Fletcher's last point... I would certainly remove the PC from the player's control if he became a villain, and the whole thing could easily cause friction within the group. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 23:00:44
|
| I had a player who was going to be moving away. He had been playing a sorceror who was always interested in becoming an undead. The adventure BEFORE his final game with us, I had his character get involved with some vampires and turned. The party found him and thought him dead. For his final adventure, he came along with the party, under the premise that he just wanted to play and he'd handle the NPC who had come along (Dimian Ree before he became the Duke of Morovar). Not only did Ree turn on the party to join the minions of Zhengyi the Witch King (in return for his life), they also found that the minions of Zhengyi included their former sorceror and his new vampire master. I then let the player run his own character against the party, while I ran the rest of the NPC's. It did catch them off guard and was a very interesting game. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Unski
Acolyte
Finland
12 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 13:16:28
|
Letting a single player to be evil can be hard, but when the entire team realises that their path is evil it gets interesting. Currently a small group of friends I am trying to introduce to the Realms are playing Evil, though one of them is still considering other options.
It works surprisingly well! Since each holds different abilities and strenghts, they have noticed that cooperation grants them far better results than going solo. And since their objectives do not interfere with each others, there is no great reason for them to fight amongst each others.
Religion played a great part, and all of them supported a certain sect one way or the other. This turned out to be greatly in my favour when they choosed faiths that had some level of alliances (Bane - Mask - Loviatar etc.) |
And that be the end of that story. |
Edited by - Unski on 26 Dec 2005 13:31:10 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Should a PC be a Campaign Villain?
