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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 01:23:33
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Wow, that was an interesting ending! A lot really came together toward the end. I must admit, I was concerned that Vell wasn't really coming into his own yet until this point, but he did a lot of development very quickly. If anything, it underscored the idea that Vell was not finding who and what he was, and then he finally gets an inkling of what he thinks that he should be doing, and what he shouldn't be.
I was upset that the dwarf died. I really grew to like him, but I wasn't shocked by it either. I did love the visual of Geildarr strapped to a chair with the dead dwarf staring at him. I also loved the fact that Ardeth got so frustrated with him for not making a decision. I think that the point really got across that Geildarr really was an administrator and not a schemer or a mastermind.
I still wonder if Moritz was working for Semmemon, or had his own agenda, though I think it makes it more interesting that we didn't know for sure. I know, the only reason to doubt it is that Semmemon himself never shows up, but still, something makes me not trust that gnome. I think he is an especially devout Cyricist, from the perspective of deception.
I was completely surprised by Ardeth. Murray, you hid her in plain sight is all I can say. I had already surmised from Moritz that she was human and that some of her abilities were more inate than spellcasting. I have no idea why it didn't occur to me that right after Moritz talks about her concealing what she is, she shifts everyone to the Plane of Shadows to save them. And they were looking for a Netherese artifact. Good lord, I stumbled right into that one.
All in all, a VERY good book. I must admit just seeing the ads for this and reading the blurbs did not do this justice. I may have skipped this one, at least for the time being, if it hadn't been for Murray's comments here at Candlekeep and the fact that it was this month's book club. I am glad I didn't overlook it, because it has so much in the way of interesting Realms developments beyond just the Uthgardt and their environs.
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 22:48:59
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KnightErrantJr, I'm pleased beyond pleased by your reaction, especially the fact that Ardeth's real nature remained a secret till the end. As for Moritz's real allegiance, I've got to admit, I don't know much about Moritz. He's a slippery creature, a creature of deceipt. I always figured he did work for Sememmon, but I guess it's possible he just works for himself (but then who enspelled the dagger? Doesn't seem like a task for an illusionist). For that matter, do you suppose that he's alive or dead?
I'm really glad you liked the book. I'd appreciate it greatly if you could repeat your comments, or some version of them, in the Novel section or even on amazon.com. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 01:57:54
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| I was already thinking about starting a mini-buzz campaign, since I think this could really be a contender for a great Realmslore book on top of being a fun read. But the buzz campaign will likely wait until Monday, since I still have one more day before I finish my 60 hour week this week! |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2006 : 20:34:08
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What a great book!! The final battle great. Alot of good men died but alot more evil they took with them. I agree with KnightErrantJR. The part when Geildarr was fastened to that chair was priceless. and Behemoths detroying the city was kick  . Like a bunch of Godzillas just tearing the city beyond reconition. You should write a book for the Dungeon series about how Geildarr gets his woopin for Fzoul. And now Vell leaves with Kellin to live happily ever after.............or do they? I will be looking for your name when new books get released. Thanks for a wonderful adventrue!!!! |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2006 : 23:08:36
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I'm really glad you liked it, darkcrow. Part of my ambition in writing the climax of this novel was to play Godzilla straight, so to speak, and I'm gratified that you think it came off. It was a lot of fun writing all that carnage. Especially Rask Urgek's death scene. I emailed Jesse Decker to ask if he'd mind my killing Rask, whom he, after all, invented for www.wizards.com. Jesse was fine with that. I hope he approves of the fate I dealt his creation.
I'd love to revisit these characters at some point, especially Vell, to find out what he makes of himself in a world that he knows so little of. There's no Forgotten Realms books on my immediate slate, though I guess anything's possible. |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2006 : 17:59:02
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I knew there was much more to Ardeth than just a faithful servant and I had a feeling she was going to turn against Geildarr in the end. I had no idea what she was going to do with the Heart nor did I know what/who she truely was until she was unmasked.
I am suprsied no one mentioned Rask's role in the attack (Besides Murray Leeder). I thought it was a very nice touch to have him destory the church of Cyric and the priest within since he had a grudge with them.
I really enjoyed this novel. Any plans for another realms novel that you are allowed to speak of? |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2006 : 23:39:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I really enjoyed this novel. Any plans for another realms novel that you are allowed to speak of?
Glad you liked it, Beezy. No plans for another novel at current, at least not another Realms novel. But I hope will one come along sooner or later. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 16:53:54
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Hello-
I agree also - a great read - through and through. :)
I also liked how Geildar was hesitating about making a decision at all - and how that seemed - in the end - to annoy both Ardeth and Moritz.
Certainly - of course - we dont know who Moritz has final loyalty with - but somehow - thats OK with me - more mystery!
However - with Ardeth - I really don't see why she EVER gave Geildar the Heart. I mean - OK - she used the crossbow bolt to quickly escape the scene at the menhir - but - once back in Lorkh - why not shift to shadow - and head for Shade? Other than this - she was a great character who was mean and ruthless right to the core.
I too was somewhat saddened by the demise of the dwarf - but this sort of thing happens in novels! :) I also agree that having him stare back at Geildar was a good touch.
I was alittle surprised that Vell relinquished his new powers - but it does make sense - it just seemed for a while that he was starting toi get used to them.
One last note - I really like how you decided to inform us of Sungar's decision of how he will tell their story to the rest of the tribe at the very end - clever - very clever!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 18:18:17
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Glad you liked it, Dhomal.
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
However - with Ardeth - I really don't see why she EVER gave Geildar the Heart. I mean - OK - she used the crossbow bolt to quickly escape the scene at the menhir - but - once back in Lorkh - why not shift to shadow - and head for Shade? Other than this - she was a great character who was mean and ruthless right to the core.
I'll speak to this. Ardeth was present in Llorkh before anyone even knew about the Heart, and had obviously put a lot of effort into laying roots there. She didn't want to abandon all that if she didn't want to, so she decided to bide her time and see if there was some other way to both turn the Heart over to her masters and to preserve her place at Geildarr's side -- not a decision which especially worked out for her, you'll agree. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 16:57:10
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I also heavily enjoyed the conclusion, Murray, especially seeing that witch Ardeth get hers...
By the by, is there an unspoken compact with you, Erik and Jess to create open ended stories for further adventures with great characters? Noticing a pattern here... |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 21:38:52
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Beautiful!!
I loved the scene with Rask in the Dark Sun temple. He knew his fate and accepted it and felt at peace. A very sad moment for me 
The whole scene of the destruction and chaos in Llorkh was very well done. I got that real "being there" type of feeling. People fleeing, behemoths running amok.... great stuff!
I thought Vell's rage was great too following the death of some of the Thunderbeasts by Geildar's hand, and Vell's complete disregard for innocents who stray into his path. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 21:43:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I still wonder if Moritz was working for Semmemon, or had his own agenda, though I think it makes it more interesting that we didn't know for sure. I know, the only reason to doubt it is that Semmemon himself never shows up, but still, something makes me not trust that gnome. I think he is an especially devout Cyricist, from the perspective of deception.
I'm also still unsure about Moritz and his true interest in all this. I like to think he was working for Sememmon even so. Great when his arm was lopped off whilst fleeing too I certainly hope we see Moritz appear in a future story (how about that Zhentarim Series of novels which is on my wishlist  )
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I was completely surprised by Ardeth. Murray, you hid her in plain sight is all I can say. I had already surmised from Moritz that she was human and that some of her abilities were more inate than spellcasting. I have no idea why it didn't occur to me that right after Moritz talks about her concealing what she is, she shifts everyone to the Plane of Shadows to save them. And they were looking for a Netherese artifact. Good lord, I stumbled right into that one.
You're not the only one! I never saw this coming at all! I loved how the illusion was described as being torn away and revealing her shade elements. Ardeth was a great character. One of my favorites from the book. It's hard to say who is THE favorite though as there are so many strong characters which I just love for one reason or another.
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 21:46:26
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Nice touch how the Sanctuary was hidden again behind the illusion. I feel kind of sad now that it's all been shut away again  Good luck to 'em anyway 
Murray..I may have missed it earlier on in the book, but how big exactly are these thunderbeasts? Is there a description in any sourcebooks of these creatures, or can you give us a nice description here 
Anyway, a great book. I thoroughly enjoyed it and as I mentioned before - a great addition to the Fighters series! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 23:27:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
I also heavily enjoyed the conclusion, Murray, especially seeing that witch Ardeth get hers...
By the by, is there an unspoken compact with you, Erik and Jess to create open ended stories for further adventures with great characters? Noticing a pattern here...
Not to the best of my knowledge! The Fighters is shaping up to be a strong series, no? And I couldn't ask for better company. As it happens, Jess was my editor years ago when I started writing Plague of Ice. |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 23:31:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Murray..I may have missed it earlier on in the book, but how big exactly are these thunderbeasts? Is there a description in any sourcebooks of these creatures, or can you give us a nice description here
Hmm... really big? I don't know if I ever established their size directly; in fact I found it advantageous to keep many of the specific details of them a little blurry.
Glad you liked the book, Lord Rad. It's gratifying to get such positive reactions from my audience. Interesting that Ardeth and Moritz seem to be the characters that seem to grab people the most. Everyone loves the slippery people. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 22:56:00
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It's established in The North that the behemoths are actually apatasauruses (or brontosauruses, to use the old term). So we're talking Jurassic Park big.
Sigh... now I'm have to go look up the size of an average apatasaurus... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 22:57:50
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Part of the reason I wanted to fuzz the size a bit was because I needed the behemoths to get through tight spaces at points (the gateway to Llorkh and the Dark Sun). In both cases I thought it was plausible enough that those would be really big entranceways; they would have to be.
This reminds me of King Kong. I recently did a lecture in the class I'm TA-ing on King Kong (the original film, I mean), a film I love and have watched quite a number of times. Somewhere along the process, it struck me that there's absolutely no reasonable explanation, in any version of King Kong, for the gigantic door that Kong uses to escape on the island. I mean, if you constructed a giant wall specifically to keep out Kong and other monsters, would you put a giant door big enough for them to go through on there? For that matter, would you put it right next to your village? But the image of the raging Kong, perfectly framed by the door, is one of the most striking in cinema history, and, one hopes, nobody ever things about the implausbility of the Kong-sized door. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 23:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Somewhere along the process, it struck me that there's absolutely no reasonable explanation, in any version of King Kong, for the gigantic door that Kong uses to escape on the island. I mean, if you constructed a giant wall specifically to keep out Kong and other monsters, would you put a giant door big enough for them to go through on there?
To say nothing of how difficult it would be to hinge and hang doors that size by a primitive people with little more than rudimentary tools and no concept of a modern door whatsoever. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 00:59:37
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| Hm . . . I wonder if anyone on the boards ever watches Robot Chicken on Cartoon Network . . . there was a skit about this very subject. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 20:18:22
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WOW!! WOW!! WOW!!
What a great read! Mr. Leeder, I loved the book. The villians were great! I also liked the heroes you created. They were believable to me. This is my kind of Forgotten Realms novel. My big question is what will become of Llorkh? Will the townpeople re-establish the town and try to keep the Zhents out? Tired of Zhent control messing up their lives... Doubtful... I liked the way you mentioned current and past events into the book. Instead of ignoring them you wrote them into the story, excellent, and less frustrating than simply ignoring current happenings in the Realms... (kind of hard to miss rampaging, raging dragons). Moritz was a great villian I would like to see again. He needs a little punishment for betraying the gnomes of his old village. (I like gnomes and hate to see them in the hands of the Zhents.) A very good read! By the way, are we sure that Ardeth served the city of Shade? Did she ever admit she was from Shade? Could it be possible she was a Shadow Adept, Dancer or something like that? Just a question... |
ShadowJack |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 04:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Somewhere along the process, it struck me that there's absolutely no reasonable explanation, in any version of King Kong, for the gigantic door that Kong uses to escape on the island. I mean, if you constructed a giant wall specifically to keep out Kong and other monsters, would you put a giant door big enough for them to go through on there?
To say nothing of how difficult it would be to hinge and hang doors that size by a primitive people with little more than rudimentary tools and no concept of a modern door whatsoever.
Keep in mind that people have done some amazing things with very little technology. The pyramids for example |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 06:13:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
WOW!! WOW!! WOW!!
What a great read! Mr. Leeder, I loved the book. The villians were great! I also liked the heroes you created. They were believable to me. This is my kind of Forgotten Realms novel. My big question is what will become of Llorkh? Will the townpeople re-establish the town and try to keep the Zhents out? Tired of Zhent control messing up their lives... Doubtful... I liked the way you mentioned current and past events into the book. Instead of ignoring them you wrote them into the story, excellent, and less frustrating than simply ignoring current happenings in the Realms... (kind of hard to miss rampaging, raging dragons). Moritz was a great villian I would like to see again. He needs a little punishment for betraying the gnomes of his old village. (I like gnomes and hate to see them in the hands of the Zhents.) A very good read! By the way, are we sure that Ardeth served the city of Shade? Did she ever admit she was from Shade? Could it be possible she was a Shadow Adept, Dancer or something like that? Just a question...
Hey ShadowJack, I'm really glad you liked it. It's very gratifying to here such comments for me.
The fate of Llorkh is an open question. Two things come to mind, though. Some years back, Zhentil Keep was utterly smashed and was rebuilt through Zhent perserverence before too long. And Llorkh is key real estate, as a caravan stop on the Black Road. The Zhents would invest a lot in trying to keep it in their grip.
As for Ardeth's allegience, you're right that she never explicitly said she was loyal for Shade. It's possible she was working for someone else, though I'd tend to think not. She definite was a shade, though; a shadow adept or shadowdancer wouldn't have died the way she did.
I grew affectionate towards Moritz myself. I'd love nothing more than to bring him back somehow. We'll just have to wait and see if that happens! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 00:56:56
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Heh, I have to admit: I had a feeling Ardeth would turn out to be a shade, mainly because of all the little hints at it that were dropped here and there. I found her interesting, although at the same time she certainly deserved to kick the bucket!
Like several others, I was surprised and pleased that the Shepards turned out NOT to be gentle, friendly, and helpful. It just made things a lot more interesting, and the twist involving them (that is, Vell's "blessing" wasn't from Uthgar, but from them--and only because he just happened to have the right set of genes) was, in my honest opinion, probably the neatest twist in a book I've read about lately.
Overall, I really enjoyed this novel and I did find it to be rich in Realmslore. Also, I liked the ending to the book--I think Vell did the best thing for himself by leaving his tribe with Kellin to see more of the world. Good on him. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 04:18:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Heh, I have to admit: I had a feeling Ardeth would turn out to be a shade, mainly because of all the little hints at it that were dropped here and there. I found her interesting, although at the same time she certainly deserved to kick the bucket!
Like several others, I was surprised and pleased that the Shepards turned out NOT to be gentle, friendly, and helpful. It just made things a lot more interesting, and the twist involving them (that is, Vell's "blessing" wasn't from Uthgar, but from them--and only because he just happened to have the right set of genes) was, in my honest opinion, probably the neatest twist in a book I've read about lately.
Overall, I really enjoyed this novel and I did find it to be rich in Realmslore. Also, I liked the ending to the book--I think Vell did the best thing for himself by leaving his tribe with Kellin to see more of the world. Good on him.
Heh, I'm still feeling a bit dense about not picking up on the Shade thing, but it made for an interesting twist, and I liked the idea that it was a more "mundane" Shadovar operation recovering Netherese magic rather than trying to take over the world or the like (not that I don't like them as big villains, but I like them as "one element among many" as well). |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 04:53:30
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Rinonalyrna, you had exactly the reaction I had hoped for! I wanted to play the Shepherds the opposite of the way they usually would be and thus do a twist on a few conventions.
Ardeth was tricky; I wanted to walk the line between making her big "reveal" too obvious and telegraphed and seeming "unfair" by giving no indication. Seems like some guessed it, some didn't, which is what I expected. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 23:20:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Rinonalyrna, you had exactly the reaction I had hoped for! I wanted to play the Shepherds the opposite of the way they usually would be and thus do a twist on a few conventions.
Ancient, white-robed beings named "sheperds"...of course people will be expect them to be wise, gentle and helpful. I'm glad you turned that cliche on it's none-too-welcome head.
And KEJR, I totally agree with you on the Shadovar--I much prefer them as just one problem among many than the all-powerful, monolithic evil they are often made out to be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 13:25:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Rinonalyrna, you had exactly the reaction I had hoped for! I wanted to play the Shepherds the opposite of the way they usually would be and thus do a twist on a few conventions.
And KEJR, I totally agree with you on the Shadovar--I much prefer them as just one problem among many than the all-powerful, monolithic evil they are often made out to be.
I agree to a certain extent, but remember that the Shadovar have the resources of an entire Netherese city at their disposal, which automatically makes them a very serious threat to everyone in the vicinity. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Son of Thunder: Chapters 20 - 23
