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atlas689
Learned Scribe
123 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 21:53:34
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I have come to love the tales of the ancient land that was Netheril. I was just wondering TSR released I believe three novels about Netheril and others on the Shade. My question is, do these novels take you from the founding of the original 7 fishing cities to the Fall and present day Shade, or are these just stories that take place in Netheril? Please respond as I would like to know the answer before I decide wether or not to buy the novels, Tempus thanks you!
-Atlas
Mod edit: Moved to the correct shelf.
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Soldiers fight, thieves steal, bards sing, wizards cast, sages think, assassins kill. Good or Evil we all have a job. So tell me this. What the hell are nobles and merchants for?
From: Thoughts of an Old Sage
by: An Old Sage (anonymous) |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Apr 2006 04:00:55
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 22:20:21
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The short answer is no. For the full history of Netheril, you need the Netheril boxed set (2e Arcane Ages).
Here is the longer answer: The Netheril trilogy was written in conjuction with the publishing of the boxed set (I think), which gives you an idea how long ago they came out. They focus on two characters, one a wizard, the servant of an archwizard, the other a ground-dwelling barbarian about two centuries before Nethril's fall. Both are human.
Spoilers!!
Book 1 deals with the character's lives, and a competition between the wizard and a fellow servant of the archwizard (Delia, if you have the box set). In effect, he says groundlings are worthy, his competitor says they're worthless, and they put the barbarian through a whole series of trials to prove the issue. In the process, the barbarian meets and falls in love with an elf, who is killed.
Book 2 sends the wizard and barbarian (who have become at least wary allies) into the future, to the last days before Netheril's fall. They meet Karsus, and get caught up in his machinations. In the process, they witness the Fall.
Book 3 (which I never read), I believe deals with the two of them, back in their present, trying to rescue the elf's soul.
End Spoilers
In all, I thought the books were fairly good. Not spectacular, but they were the only ones for a long time to deal directly with Netheril. There was also a short story book released about the same time (Realms of the Arcane) that dealt with that era, though I didn't like those nearly as much.
The books about the return of Shade are a completely different fish. They're fairly recent, and showed up at the change-over from 2e to 3e. They are, quite possibly, the Avatar series for a new decade.
That needs explanation. Once upon a time, there was what is now called 1st Edition. It was much like our game, but it had monks, assassins, cavaliers, and some truly funky bards. It grew old, and a new edition was released. To herald it, TSR had a trilogy published by three authors who used a pseudonym so that they're faces wouldn't be attributed to the pile of dung.
The Avatar Trilogy is, after Prince of Lies (which is technically a continuation of the series), my absolute least favorite set of Realms novels. It is also, unfortunately, darn close to required reading, since it deals with the Time of Troubles, where all the gods were cast down and caused all sorts of havoc. EVERYTHING after 1357 DR is different because of the ToT, which includes the changes between 1e and 2e.
The Return of the Archwizards set is an awful series of novels. I didn't get past the first book. Actually, I read the first book and stopped reading any Realms fiction for over a year. It was that bad. Unfortunately, rather large events happen in the series, which you need to know about. I may have to go back and read it, some day, if only to completely change it in my campaign.
My advice: if you can find the Netheril series, and like Netheril, go for it. Interesting reading. However, run, don't walk, away from the Return of the Archwizards. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 22 Apr 2006 22:33:54 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 22:44:45
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| There are, however, some people (like me) who enjoyed the Return of the Archwizards series a lot. My suggestion is, form an opinion yourself, I don't like the idea of telling anyone not to read this or that book etc. Everyone has their own taste... hell, some people actually like Brittney Spears...so tastes and opinions are different. Try it out... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 00:00:52
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No offense, Mace, but I think you're in the minority. At least on this board. When Wooly Rupert says something along the lines of, "I've spent the past year trying to wipe the memory of reading that series from my mind," you start getting an idea of the strong emotions the series evokes.
Note, I'm not exactly against the events in the book. I think they're interesting and open the doors to a lot of possibilities. I just loathe the way they were written. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 01:52:35
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Well, while I do thoroughly detest those novels, I'll readily admit that there are those who love them. To each his own, and all that. If someone asks for my personal recommendation, in terms of enjoyment, I'd discourage them from reading the RotA. If they were wanting to read it for completion, then I'd simply warn them.
I do agree with what Hoondatha said, though: the trilogy had much potential, but the way it was written left much to be desired. That is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
While I didn't enjoy the Netheril trilogy overly much, it wasn't bad. I can't say there was much I disliked about it; it just didn't grab me as readily as some other books have. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TymoraChosen
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 02:08:01
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Well Atlas689, if you wish to know more about the history of Netheril, Lost Empires of Faerun supplement and the Netheril Boxed set-quite hard to find nowadays.
The Arcane Age: Netheril is fairly not a pleasant novel to read and it is lacking a lot in many areas though Book 2 about the fall of Netheril would allow you sort of a live-historical perception of the final moments of the empire of netheril.
As for the Return of the Archwizards(RotA), just read it with an open mind and relaxed mind, everyone have an different opinion of the books they read so don't make a hasty decision not to read the book just because some detest the trilogy itself. I believe you are still not too familiar with the FR world and not too strung up with the bueracratic rules and lore as some are, so I am certain you will enjoy reading the RotA Trilogy so long you read it with an open and relaxed mind and also don't be too strung up by the lore and rules of the FR world.
quote:
No offense, Mace, but I think you're in the minority. At least on this board.
Hey Mace Hammerhand, don't yer worry, for you are not in the minority either and never will be. For we who enjoy the RotA trilogy counterbalances those who hate the trilogy, the balance is always maintained. |
May tymora's blessings be heaped on all |
Edited by - TymoraChosen on 23 Apr 2006 02:11:15 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 02:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No offense, Mace, but I think you're in the minority. At least on this board. When Wooly Rupert says something along the lines of, "I've spent the past year trying to wipe the memory of reading that series from my mind," you start getting an idea of the strong emotions the series evokes.
Note, I'm not exactly against the events in the book. I think they're interesting and open the doors to a lot of possibilities. I just loathe the way they were written.
sorry my friend, but I too enjoyed RoTA, even though some characters were not portrayed as the majority would expect, they were still good in my opinion. The netheril trilogy was ok, but did not seem to have the realms flavor that I have come to enjoy and expect. |
Edited by - scererar on 23 Apr 2006 02:37:13 |
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atlas689
Learned Scribe
123 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 03:11:08
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  Look I'm new to the FR and I love everything about it so far (except for the lack of NPC stats on the internet which I did finally track down ), I have never played the game and do not want to, for I do not want to start finding all the flaws in the novels or in this and that. I am an avid reader and take the FR as one big story (2nd best to Tolkien, sorry the original is always the best), so as to wether or not it is "politically"(I use the term loosely) accurate, I do not really care to much . I actually only wanted a story similiar to the way Corymr or Evermeet was written but with Netheril for I think that kind of style (past present) is neet. I wanted to hear more about Karsus, the scrolls, Larloch, and Ioulaum(especially Karsus). But(excuse my grammar ) from what I gather these two series isn't exactly what im looking for . Anyhow thanks very much for the advice from all you great sages of realmslore, Tempus thanks you(ARG no one has responded to "Tempus thanks you"!lol)!
-Atlas |
Soldiers fight, thieves steal, bards sing, wizards cast, sages think, assassins kill. Good or Evil we all have a job. So tell me this. What the hell are nobles and merchants for?
From: Thoughts of an Old Sage
by: An Old Sage (anonymous) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 03:24:13
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Ah, well, if you're only interested in FR as a novel line, you should have said so. It changes the response (and this should probably be in FR Novels and not Sages, but what the hey).
The problem with loving the old empires (and I'm with you in that, though I tend toward the old elven empires rather than human ones) is that the novel line has always been much more centered on the present. The Netheril boxed set spawned the Netheril trilogy set in the actual time, but the same thing did not happen with the Cormanthyr set, detailing the elves. (As a side note, can you imagine if they'd gotten Ed or Elaine to do a trilogy set back then?)
I'm trying to think about other novels that might reference Netheril. The problem is that most would be out of print. The Nether Scroll is one, though that was an odd duck of a novel. YMMV There's also a short story set in the Netheril time period in Realms of the Dragons One, and at least a few Netheril short stories in Realms of the Arcane (out of print).
Other than that, I can't think of a novel that deals extensively with Netheril. There are plenty of off-hand references and the occasional "sleeping evil" type plot hook, but not much else.
How about it guys? Am I forgettting something? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 23 Apr 2006 03:24:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 05:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by atlas689
Look I'm new to the FR and I love everything about it so far (except for the lack of NPC stats on the internet which I did finally track down), I have never played the game and do not want to,
Out of curiosity, why the interest in stats if you're not interested in the game?
quote:
Originally posted by atlas689
for I do not want to start finding all the flaws in the novels or in this and that.
Ah, but... I come to the Realms more from the story side, myself. Stats are of little interest to me; when I see them someplace, I usually don't even do so much as skim them. But the stats have nothing to do with some of the flaws. When an aspect of the Realms -- be it a person, a place, an entity such as gods or monsters, or anything else -- has been covered by other writers as being a certain way, when another author goes against everything that was established, it's a flaw. And I'm not citing anyone in particular when I say that. Rules are often a very minor aspect of staying true to what has gone before -- especially since the rules have changed, more than once. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 06:04:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ah, but... I come to the Realms more from the story side, myself. Stats are of little interest to me; when I see them someplace, I usually don't even do so much as skim them.
Indeed. I have a tendency to glaze over the short stat descriptions in canon material. In fact, I can count the number of times on one hand that I've read through a complete stat-block this year alone.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 15:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No offense, Mace, but I think you're in the minority. At least on this board. When Wooly Rupert says something along the lines of, "I've spent the past year trying to wipe the memory of reading that series from my mind," you start getting an idea of the strong emotions the series evokes.
Note, I'm not exactly against the events in the book. I think they're interesting and open the doors to a lot of possibilities. I just loathe the way they were written.
And I agree with you, whole-heartedly. I, too, loathe the way they were written, and how poorly the major NPCs were portrayed in them   |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 15:02:40
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quote:
Originally posted by atlas689
Anyhow thanks very much for the advice from all you great sages of realmslore, Tempus thanks you(ARG no one has responded to "Tempus thanks you"!lol)!
-Atlas
And I thank Tempus  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Netheril Novels
