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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2005 : 07:48:05
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| As I said - it was silly of him not to take the possibility into consideration. But again, that's what bugs me about Troy Denning... Well actually about most D&D elves. They are WAY too human. There's little of the wise and intelligent race from ancient times portrayed there, seeing as how their arrogance and self-righteousness leads to mistake after mistake. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2005 : 00:29:21
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Darkheyr, how do you expect Galaeron to know the effects of Shadow Weave and the Weave conflicting with each other? Shadow magic wasn't exactly popular at that time and it didn't even thrive until the Shade Enclave returned to Faerun. Then like I said, would you even trust the words of a stranger who broke the laws of your city?
Second, what arrogance and self-righteousness?! You have not given any examples of this. The only arrogance I've seen from elves is from the gold elves, but that's not exactly the views of the whole elven race, only from a selected few extremists. As for self-righteousness, you could argue about that with humans, dwarves, or halfings too. Almost anybody with a good alignment could have this trait, regardless of race... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Adarin
Acolyte
30 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 12:09:23
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| My greetings to all forum members, so is it true about Shade Enclave lord that Telamont Tanthul Lady was an assassin sent to kill him? |
There will always be parting of ways which is never of your preference. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 12:19:03
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Greetings to you Adarin, yes, according to what I knew, Telamont Tanthul Lady was indeed an well beautiful assassin and yet bard by the name of Alashar Crywinds and from Ioulaum. The assassin was despatched by arcanist Grenway to kill Telamont for his outrageous theories on demi-planes. Their marriage was overseen by Karsus in a secret ceremony. But the aassasin and yet bard was something more than a woman sent to kill Telamont. Alashar revealed that she was in fact an avatar of Shar, sent to guide and protect him. The timing of their escape from Netheril was not accidental, she explained, but rather was planned by the Goddess of Dark in response to the coming Netheril Empire Fall and disaster she had foreseen. This revelation cemented Shar's position as the only deity worshipped among the Shadovar, as all other deities were abandoned in favor of the one who had proved their salvation. The avatar of Shar bore him twelve sons which He educated them in the ways of shadow magic and the Netherese culture.
In many ways, Telamont is an autocrat, Telamont has taken great pains to preserve what he believed were the best elements of Netherese society and merge them with the characteristics necessary for survival on the Plane of Shadow. The result is a society bound by formality and regimentation, in which even the most mundane aspects of daily life have some level of ritual bound up in their execution. In this fashion order is maintained, but more important, so is the continuity of culture from century to century. As the final arbiter of all that transpires in the City of Shade, in many ways the High Prince is the city. His subjects view him as the living embodiment of all their customs, beliefs, and values. And this is exactly how Telamont sees himself as.
Telamont is as difficult to read as he is to bluff. Even members of his own family rarely know what he is truly thinking behind his impenetrable mask of glacial calm. Despite his inexpressive exterior, Telamont's mind is always in motion. His determination to lead his city stems from a strong inner conviction that no other individual could possibly be as successful at it as he considers himself to be. Also, he conceals his thougts very well, a master of keeping his thoughts masked and shielded.
Telamont's transformation into a shade is far more advanced than that of any other shade in the city, his body now seeming to be formed entirely of the shadowstuff he has worked so long with. Still tall and robust despite his age, the High Prince cuts an imposing figure whether seated on his floating throne or presiding over ceremonies in the streets of the city.
But Telamont is not immortal but merely having a lifespan longer than a human. He is believed to be at least 2000 or more years old. His knowledge of Shadow Magic may make him the greatest opponent ever challenged. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 28 Apr 2005 12:37:36 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 17:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Greetings to you Adarin, yes, according to what I knew, Telamont Tanthul Lady was indeed an well beautiful assassin and yet bard by the name of Alashar Crywinds and from Ioulaum. The assassin was despatched by arcanist Grenway to kill Telamont for his outrageous theories on demi-planes. Their marriage was overseen by Karsus in a secret ceremony. But the aassasin and yet bard was something more than a woman sent to kill Telamont. Alashar revealed that she was in fact an avatar of Shar, sent to guide and protect him. The timing of their escape from Netheril was not accidental, she explained, but rather was planned by the Goddess of Dark in response to the coming Netheril Empire Fall and disaster she had foreseen. This revelation cemented Shar's position as the only deity worshipped among the Shadovar, as all other deities were abandoned in favor of the one who had proved their salvation.
Please find the canon info that says Shar is Alashar. This has been speculated repeatedly on the WOTC boards but there is no, as far as I know, lore that says this is true. Besides Alashar was cloned and her body was sent back to her employer to "prove" she failed. We don't even really know it was her that gave Shadow his sons. There has been no mention about her in any of the 3/3.5e lore. The last we saw of her was in 2e's Netheril box set. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 02:10:41
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| As I said above, I don't think so. Three of us have now said that it was speculation. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 05:59:06
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
As I said above, I don't think so. Three of us have now said that it was speculation. :)
Ooh, ooh! Does that mean we can vote someone off the island now?   
Edit: Before anyone takes that the wrong way, it's a general joke aimed at and referring to no one in particular. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Apr 2005 06:00:09 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 07:18:52
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And may I say that if someone thought it was anything else, or took it to be aimed at them - they deserve to be voted off the island
Bah, I think me needs some breakfast and sleep. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 07:46:34
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*chuckles* A bit touchy about Elven Arrogance, aren't we?
How about thinking they could seal off all dangers instead of making sure they were dead and gone? The nycaloths or the Fey'Ri are examples of this. How about stealing the Nether Scrolls because they thought they were "rightfully theirs" as they were found in Aryvandaar... Even though the elves looted them from some other ruin as well?
How about the Sundering? The Destruction of their homeland in Faerie?
Of course there are arrogant and self-righteous humans etc. too. But for a race like the elves that is supposed to be old and wise, they sure don't act like it :P |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
Edited by - Darkheyr on 29 Apr 2005 07:47:30 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 09:10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
The Destruction of their homeland in Faerie?
What source details the elves as being responsible for Tintageer's destruction?
quote:
But for a race like the elves that is supposed to be old and wise, they sure don't act like it :P
Old and wise <snort> You obviously have never met a Shaelara. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 09:38:43
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Don't remember offhand, and it was more of a sidenote than a detailed explanation. I vaguely remember a paragraph about the elves fleeing destruction, and of them not having learned from Tintageers fate when they performed the Sundering - in the style of "once again" making a big mistake.
I'll see if I can find a definite reference at home. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 15:04:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
I'll see if I can find a definite reference at home.
Please do. I look forward to hearing the source.
Thanks.
SB |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 15:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Don't remember offhand, and it was more of a sidenote than a detailed explanation. I vaguely remember a paragraph about the elves fleeing destruction, and of them not having learned from Tintageers fate when they performed the Sundering - in the style of "once again" making a big mistake.
I'll see if I can find a definite reference at home.
Here's the original quote you may have been referring to -
quote:
c. -24000 DR
1. (~) The Sundering. Hundreds of High Magi gathered in the heartland of Faerûn at the Gathering Place. Ignoring the lesson learned from the destruction of Tintageer centuries earlier, the High Magi cast a spell designed to create a glorious elven homeland. As the Day of Birthing dawned, the spell reached its apex. The unbridled force of the spell sunders Faerûn, the one land, apart. As a result, hundred of cities are washed away, thousands of elves lie dead, and the face of Abeir-Toril is changed forever. The name Faerûn, no longer the one land, was given to largest continent. Evermeet, Island of Elves, is created. The Tree of Souls is given to the elves.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 15:24:51
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| Ah, 'twas that one indeed... Plus another from the same source I believe, that deals with the elven departure from Tintageer. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 16:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Ah, 'twas that one indeed... Plus another from the same source I believe, that deals with the elven departure from Tintageer.
The Sage's information is taken from a timeline that references Evermeet: Island of Elves as a source. However, in regards to the elven departure from Tintageer, the magic that was unleashed was in response to invaders as seen on page 93 of the paperback version of the aforementioned novel. I don't think the elves would have been casting such magic if they hadn't endured an invasion which included a long siege. Thus, to list that as an example of elven arrogance seems to be a stretch at best. I'd call it more of an act of desperation.
And for those with only the hardback version of the novel who wish to find the scene, it's at the start of the sixth chapter and right before the High Magic dance that allows the elves to escape. Strange, I don't see any dark elves mentioned by Elaine Cunningham taking part in this dance of High Magic. How about that. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 17:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
right before the High Magic dance that allows the elves to escape. Strange, I don't see any dark elves mentioned by Elaine Cunningham taking part in this dance of High Magic. How about that.
Hmm, not very useful to the other discuission. For even if this occured after that minor lovers quarral that resulting in Lolth, this event occured long before the Desent.
The dark elves should have not been blocked from High Magic at this time. It would be after the Desent and being turned into Drow that I would have expected High Magic being blocked from them.
Perhaps the Dark Elves were being wise and advised against such a venture? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 17:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
And for those with only the hardback version of the novel who wish to find the scene, it's at the start of the sixth chapter and right before the High Magic dance that allows the elves to escape. Strange, I don't see any dark elves mentioned by Elaine Cunningham taking part in this dance of High Magic. How about that.
Pages 87 to 90ish in the Hardback. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 17:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Hmm, not very useful to the other discuission.
Sorry Kentinal, that was meant only as a playful jab at Darkheyr. I didn't think any scribe would take it seriously.
SB |
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Andyr
Acolyte
27 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 18:55:51
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Going back to something mentioned briefly a few posts ago - how many Princes of Shade are there? 12 or 13?
Reading the RotA series, and Realms of Shadow, sometimes I get the impression there were 12, and sometimes 13. They seem to contradict themselves on the exact number, as well as whether they were born pre- or post- Fall of Netheril.
I thought perhaps Melegaunt was born later than the Fall, hence stories set before the Fall mentioning 12 princes where other places said 13, but then reading the trilogy I get the impression some of the other princes are younger than the Fall too...
Any thoughts? :) |
Infinity Engine (Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape: Torment series) modder:
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 01:57:32
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| Well, I think Melegaunt is among the twelve princes, probably the 12th Prince as I do remember In Book 1 of the Return Of the Archwizards, Elminister called Melegaunt a "lad" despite Melegaunt elderly appearance. I suspect the 13th Prince is Yder Tanthul, youngest of all the Shade Princes.*shrugs* |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Carion Hunter
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 05:39:21
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quote:
originally quoted by Shadovar
Well, I think Melegaunt is among the twelve princes, probably the 12th Prince as I do remember In Book 1 of the Return Of the Archwizards, Elminister called Melegaunt a "lad" despite Melegaunt elderly appearance. I suspect the 13th Prince is Yder Tanthul, youngest of all the Shade Princes
You certain? |
Wanna throw me out? You gotta think thrice about that. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 07:02:17
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| Hmm... isn't Melegaunt the youngest of the Princes of Shade? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Andyr
Acolyte
27 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 11:02:23
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That's the unusual thing. It clearly says 12 princes pre-fall, but Melegaunt isn't the youngest, and I am certain RotA says he did not know Netheril because he was not born until after the Fall.
I can't find the passage now, though - perhaps it was something Yder said instead... |
Infinity Engine (Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape: Torment series) modder:
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http://www.pocketplane.net |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 11:40:07
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| How many of them are dead now? I can`t remember. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 17:41:15
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| Well, it's because I remember in The Summoning when Melegaunt, Galaedorn and the others met up with the Princes of Shade; and the princes asked Melegaunt summon the Shade Enclave back. Melegaunt had been surprised and said something about how he was the youngest of the Princes and that honour and important task should not befallen to him. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 02:17:44
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Hmm. bu somehow I recalled Yder Tanthul being mentioned as the youngest as well so Melegaunt and Yder should be the last two youngest princes though are they 12th or 13th, hard to tell.
quote:
Originally posted by Khorne
How many of them are dead now? I can`t remember.
I think the dead sons of Telamont Tabthul are:
1) Melegaunt Tanthul, slain probably in the battle with Wulgreth the Lich.
2) Escanor Tanthul, slain by Vala of Vaasa using a darksword from what i heard.
These two I am quite certain are dead already, others I will have to check for more information. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Carion Hunter
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 02:23:32
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| So from what I heard, the Shadovar possess some distinct characteristics that make them slightly exceptional to the mortals on Faerun. And what is the difference between a Shadovar of Shade Enclave and a true shade. So do they hold elite ranks in the army? |
Wanna throw me out? You gotta think thrice about that. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 02:31:12
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Well, from what I know, most Shadovar of Shade Enclave are humans and descendants of the original inhabitants of the enclave. Here are some characteristics about them:
Shadovar are very similar in many ways to a Shade, but do not have the distinctive dark grey skin. They spend almost all of their lives in darkness and deep shadow so appear pale and wan. They are also thinner than most humans.
Despite this Shadovar are most definitely not weak. In fact they heal faster than other humans, and they tend to be a little more resistant to disease and injury as well. However, as they very much prefer the shade they are not as fit and resilient when they are in bright light. Shadovar also move faster and attack with more accuracy in the dark than in the light.
Also concerning their personality:
The most important factors to know about a Shadovar are that they prefer shadow to light, and they follow an evil goddess. They are a secretive race, who as yet prefer to conceal their motivations and the extent of their powers when dealing with others. Shadovar may have genuine affection for others who are important to them, but they may also seem to be cold, selfish and ruthless in many ways.
Shadovar can be very charming. However when they are out of the shadows they love so well they are less self confident, and the oddness of their appearance is also more noticeable.
Shadovarian society is very hierarchical and has remained unchanged for many hundreds of years. They may therefore have less of the usual human great ability to learn and adapt, but as there has been so little interaction with the Shadovar this is hard to judge.
But as far as I know, the shades are altered Shadovars, possessing powerful shadow magic and infused with the essence of the shadow in their bodies, becoming creatures of shadow. But shades are more recruited into the elite and espionage corps of Shade Enclave. Each soldier in the enclave rise by ability and not by bloodline or political influence.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Return of Shade Enclave
