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fmacdonald
Acolyte
Canada
33 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:47:10
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The perception of the Firbolg race that I got from the Moonshae series was that firbolgs were even and low-witted. I favour the view of them that I got from the Twilight Giants series. I'm conflicted about the Moonshae series now, I feel guilty about all the firbolg slaughter. Is it that they are different in the different regoins? I remember the firbolgs turning good, or at least one tribe in the moonshae series. Was the moonshae series set quite a long time before the time of troubles, and was this one tribe responsible for changing an entire race?
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www.myspace.com/deathsheadmusic - If you have a myspace account and are into this "heavy metal" and "punk rock" thing the kids are listening to now, check out my band. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:55:24
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Well, you have stumbled upon one of the fun questions of the old days. There were three versions of the Firbolg in AD&D version of the Realms; the Moonshae version were based on the the stories of threatening giants in Irish lore (although the fomorians there were not really giants). Troy Denning gave us the lawful good giant-kin in the Giant-trilogy and here's the fun part; none of these corresponded with the standard firbolgs represented in the game. These were chaotic good and neutral giant-kin with magical abilities living in the forests and avoiding humans. That was the version used in the Monster Manual and in the Book of Humanoids.
The easy thing to do is to see the novel version as subspecies developing in isolated areas. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:58:04
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Doug kind of messed up when he used the firbolgs of the Moonshes. They really should be formorian's instead of firbolgs.
There was something about this once, and I want to say it was on the mailing list.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 05 Oct 2006 20:59:02 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:58:26
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quote:
Originally posted by fmacdonald
The perception of the Firbolg race that I got from the Moonshae series was that firbolgs were even and low-witted. I favour the view of them that I got from the Twilight Giants series. I'm conflicted about the Moonshae series now, I feel guilty about all the firbolg slaughter. Is it that they are different in the different regoins? I remember the firbolgs turning good, or at least one tribe in the moonshae series. Was the moonshae series set quite a long time before the time of troubles, and was this one tribe responsible for changing an entire race?
in my opinion:
if you play the RPG side to the Realms there are actually three types of firblogs...
The first is the Moonshea firblogs..which aren't much more really than hill giants
The second is the Hartsvale firblogs...they aren't much more really than oversized humans with a strict code of honour
The third is the D&D firblog (meaning the monster manual one) where they are small giants that are almost like some kind of fey/faerie kin...they are isolationist but benevolent forest dwellers with innate spell-like powers, most sprite/pixie-ish
as the "firblog" comes from irish mythology (I think) where they were the original (and wicked) inhabitants of the Emerald Isles and warred with the humans...thus the moonshea version
I would feel of the deaths of the firblogs in the Moonsheas the same way I do about Drizzt and Wulfgar and the giant's cave story  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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fmacdonald
Acolyte
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:58:43
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| Thanks. Personally, I would like to see them as characters in more novels, with the third aspect you described. That sounds the most interesting. |
www.myspace.com/deathsheadmusic - If you have a myspace account and are into this "heavy metal" and "punk rock" thing the kids are listening to now, check out my band. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 20:59:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Doug kind of messed up when he used the firbolgs of the Moonshes. They really should be formorian's instead of firbolgs.
oops, I mixed up the two names too  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
Edited by - Kalin Agrivar on 05 Oct 2006 21:00:13 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 21:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Doug kind of messed up when he used the firbolgs of the Moonshes. They really should be formorian's instead of firbolgs.
oops, I mixed up the two names too
Found the passage I was talking about. It's on Keep's errata.
2. FR2 The Moonshaes
courtesy Thatotherguy < dragonl@rocketmail.com >
In the Moonshaes the most obvious error is Jeff Grubb (I think it was him) confused firbolgs and formorians. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 21:05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Doug kind of messed up when he used the firbolgs of the Moonshes. They really should be formoian's instead of firbolgs
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Well, I don't know, that would just have made another confusion. The malformed and sadistic formorians is not the prefect match for the firbolgs as presented in the Moonshaes. They are here presented more as traditional primitive and threatening giants and not wholly evil. Anyway both the firbolgs and formorians were changed from the mythic versions when taken into the AD&D game, so I see nothing wrong with Niles fitting the firbolgs to his Moonshae islands.
In many ways the firbolgs of the islands are more like slightly dim verbeegs than formorians in my view. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 21:08:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Doug kind of messed up when he used the firbolgs of the Moonshes. They really should be formoian's instead of firbolgs
.
Well, I don't know, that would just have made another confusion. The malformed and sadistic formorians is not the prefect match for the firbolgs as presented in the Moonshaes. They are here presented more as traditional primitive and threatening giants and not wholly evil. Anyway both the firbolgs and formorians were changed from the mythic versions when taken into the AD&D game, so I see nothing wrong with Niles fitting the firbolgs to his Moonshae islands.
In many ways the firbolgs of the islands are more like slightly dim verbeegs than formorians in my view.
Well canonically they should be formorians from 1e/2e. :) And the formorians of 1e/2e are a better fit because they are NE and they live in ruins/underground, according to the 1e/2e MM's. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 05 Oct 2006 21:12:37 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 21:19:51
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Yes Kuje, I agree on the canon part, but you must admit that the formorians from 1/2ed. is presented far differently from the giants in the Moonshae books as they are monstrously deformed sadistic creatures living, as you said mainly under ground. No matter which giant they use it becomes a sub-species different from the main species.
Anyway, I am not going to derail this over minor details, even though the slight confusion over the giant-kin is interesting as it continued throughout the whole edition with Dennings books. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 21:22:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Yes Kuje, I agree on the canon part, but you must admit that the formorians from 1/2ed. is presented far differently from the giants in the Moonshae books as they are monstrously deformed sadistic creatures living, as you said mainly under ground. No matter which giant they use it becomes a sub-species different from the main species.
Anyway, I am not going to derail this over minor details, even though the slight confusion over the giant-kin is interesting as it continued throughout the whole edition with Dennings books.
I don't have to admit it at all because the giants in the Moonshae books, to me, resemble the D&D formorians more then the D&D firbolgs, which is what they should be.
I just reread the formorian write up in my 2e MM and it's a perfect fit for the same beasties that are in the Moonshae novels. Formorians lair in ruins, underground, etc. Check. They have a secluded lair in their ruins that they guard. Check. They gather the weapons and armor and items from the foes that they kill and then store it but hardly use it. Check. They are deformed but the MM only gives a list of deformitites that you, as a DM, can use but it leaves it up to the DM to make up. All of this info is in the 2e MM, so I don't see how they don't fit the giants of the Moonshaes.
Denning's books used the real firbolgs that are also discussed in the same 2e MM that I referenced for the formorian info. Tavis Burdan, the firbolg of Denning's giant books, fits the firbolg info to a T.
So, I'll repeat myself, the Moonshae firbolgs are a mess up and they should be formorians, while Denning's firbolgs are really the firbolgs that they should be. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 05 Oct 2006 21:36:20 |
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Firbolgs (maybe spoilers_)
