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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 08:40:42
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Fellow Scribes and hono(u)red Sages!
In a players career it at least once comes to the point where he has to think about character creation. Now, I do have a friend of mine that consulted me in regard to his character creation. He would like to play qa fighter character. However, he does not want to play the typical 'I-bash-em-wid-me-sword'-type of fighter but rather something different. So he asked me, and I forward this question to you:
What other fighter-classes and/or PrC can be found in the many many many sourcebooks published so far?
thanks in advance, Ergdusch
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 09:47:46
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| There are some FR specfic Fighter Varients in Champions of Valor and in the Champions of Ruin WE if hes look for lots of crunchy stuff for fighters then he should check out complete warrior |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 10:33:48
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Fighters can be different enough with the amount of bonus feats available for specialisation. Does he have any idea at all what kind of fighter he wants to play? Ranged attacker, dextrous fighter, defender, beserker, specialist weapon fighter, grappler, pious fighter, war leader, bodyguard, city guard, ....
the list of other types and roles of fighters is about 12 times longer than that |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 11:37:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Fellow Scribes and hono(u)red Sages!
In a players career it at least once comes to the point where he has to think about character creation. Now, I do have a friend of mine that consulted me in regard to his character creation. He would like to play qa fighter character. However, he does not want to play the typical 'I-bash-em-wid-me-sword'-type of fighter but rather something different. So he asked me, and I forward this question to you:
What other fighter-classes and/or PrC can be found in the many many many sourcebooks published so far?
thanks in advance, Ergdusch
The question he really needs to answer is what alternative type is he interested in being. As Kaladorm has said there's a lot of different types around, many of which have prestige classes which enhance their particular style. Complete Warrior has a variety, but they appear in all sorts of places.
If he wants to be a ranged specialist, then there are the Order of the Bow Initiate and Master Thrower. For unusual weapons try the MAster of Chains or Exotic Weapon Master. Two weapon fighters might look at Tempest (Complete Adventurer). If he wants to try a d'Artagnan type then Duelist could be the way to go, or for a classic chivalrous knight there's cavalier. Or if prestige classes don't appeal then a Monk or Barbarian provide a somewhat different fighter-type. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 11:44:38
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There are really lot of possibilities, you should specify what your PC wants
Base Class Sources: Complete Warrior (Swashbuckler, Hexblade, Samurai), Miniatures Handbook (Marshal), PHB II (Duskblade, Knight), Book of Nine Swords (Warblade), Magic of Incarnum (Soulborn), EPH (Psychic Warrior), Janissary (Dragon 334), Knifer (Dragon 329), Thane (Dragon 323) ...
PRCs: endless possibilities in Complete Warrior, Heroes of Battle, Miniatures Handbook, Book of Nine Swords ...
Substituton lvls. also a lot: Champions of Valor/Ruin +WEs, Races of the Wild (raptoran fighter), Races of Stone (dwarf fighter) ...
Not to mention endless possiblities with feat combos, races, weapons, cultures
If you want I can write in detail something specific |
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Edited by - Marc on 17 Nov 2006 11:46:20 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 18:07:09
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Hello-
Additionally - from a pure RP point of view - you can create and have a 'just bash-em' fighter - who by choice or personality or quirks - becomes something very different.
How about a fighter that is deathly scared of either other's - or even more drastically - his own blood. He might choose to use blunt weapons (a'la the 1st edition cleric restriction) in order to try and not draw blood - or he may wear the heaviest armor he can for himself - and possibly only (or mainly) use weapons that have reach - keepingthe foes further form him in order to not be cut and bleed himself.
The possibilities along these lines are almost endless....
- He has Profession: Cartographer - and is always making maps of everywhere - even idly penning the window locations at the inn... (*I have a PC who does this right now*)
- The PC collects something - and is always on the lookout for more to add to his collection. This could be something as simple as statuettes, to something far more specific like different Axes. This works well if time is spent in a large town/city - where fighter types dont often have a lot of stuff to do - compared to the cleric/mage/thief types...
- The PC has some long-term goal that may or may not really tie in with the campaign. He may just want to collect ~1000 GP to provide as a dowry for a younger sister, or perhaps the family farm is in a bad situation - and sending money back periodically to try and help the family. Perhaps a sibling has squandered the family 'fortunes' and the PC was 'sold' into an 'indentured servitude' as a caravan guard or somesuch - and has recently worked off his needed time - but may be far from home - and possibly 'home' still needs more money. (*I have a PC in my game with a situation much like this.*)
Anyhoo - more options, basically! 
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 19:36:41
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| The Iaijutsu Master from OA has plenty of roleplaying options in addition to some neat abilities. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:19:24
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| And have a think about the different combat options from the PHB - maybe it's just my players, but things like sunder and bull rush are used very rarely. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:22:34
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| No variant classes, feats, or combat options will make a boring charater interesting. The player should conceive the character, then see if any unusual game mechanics are needed to represent it. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 21:51:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
No variant classes, feats, or combat options will make a boring charater interesting. The player should conceive the character, then see if any unusual game mechanics are needed to represent it.
Hello-
I disagree somewhat. Yes - the character could still be boring no matter what class etc options are chosen - but sometimes - looking at the options - will spark an idea for something that will make it interesting. Knowing your options - and working to make something interesting is not necessarily easy either, so any tricks can/should be used.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 22:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
No variant classes, feats, or combat options will make a boring charater interesting. The player should conceive the character, then see if any unusual game mechanics are needed to represent it.
I agree for the most part, though I also agree with Dhomal that sometimes ideas can be sparked by looking at the options.
Still, in the end, it's the character's personality that makes him/her interesting. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 23:34:30
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They certainly can, as can any creative source. But no such source is a reliable focus for making a character that people will like and remember, or novelists would make greater use of RPG rulebooks.
I'm not saying Ergdusch's player is putting undue weight on game 'options' -- he may not be. But lots of players do. |
Edited by - Faraer on 17 Nov 2006 23:35:42 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 01:25:49
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| I'm with Rino, but the title of the thread is referring to variants and PrCs. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 02:00:12
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| Without knowing what sort of character the player wants to play, just tossing out options may not be as helpful as specific examples and ideas. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:29:14
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I will agree with Faraer, its a personality thats makes a character interesting. Often players make exotic combos (Half-Deamon/Dragon with a huge katana ) and they dont have the knowledge or experience to RP them! and thats awful. When my players asks me any idea for making a unique character i advise them to stick to the core classes (no drow, i have seen enough good ones wielding scimitars,through i love the original ) and just make a personality to make a character unique and realistic. |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 20 Nov 2006 21:30:36 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 10:10:48
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Thanks all of you for your inpunt in this - much appreciated indeed. I have consulted him according to your ideas and advices and after talking several hours it has come down to either a barabarian with focus on axe fighting (thanks to Dhomals input of the axe collector ) or a roguish type of fighter.
So if you could narrow down your search of PrC and unusual feats on those two options again, please?! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 29 Nov 2006 10:15:26 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 10:18:51
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For his roguish tyep of Fighter I worked on the Blade PrC to be found here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8222 at candlekeep forum.
However, he might take it into consideration once it is clear that there will be no other bard in the group.........
More options? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 10:56:55
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A rogue can actually be made into a decent-ish fighter type with a number of combat orientated feats.
Two weapon fighting, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Twin Sword Style (Regional), dodge, Weapon Finesse, Deft Strike, etc
He may be a bit fragile, but with the right set up can have a decent AC, and when he hits, he hits 'hard' with all that sneak attack damage. Just remember to feint or flank. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 10:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
A rogue can actually be made into a decent-ish fighter type with a number of combat orientated feats.
Two weapon fighting, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Twin Sword Style (Regional), dodge, Weapon Finesse, Deft Strike, etc
He may be a bit fragile, but with the right set up can have a decent AC, and when he hits, he hits 'hard' with all that sneak attack damage. Just remember to feint or flank.
Where do I find the Improved Feint feat and how does it work? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 11:03:36
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Improved feint is in the SRD. It allows you to make a feint as a move action (rather than a standard action).
The main reason being to deny a target it's dex bonus to AC, making it easier to hit AND opening it up for sneak attack damage. Improved feint allows you to do it and take a stab in the same round
quote:
IMPROVED FEINT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action.
Normal: Feinting in combat is a standard action.
A fighter may select Improved Feint as one of his fighter bonus feats.
quote:
Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers.
If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.
Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 19:14:44
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| Allright! That is nifty! Really tricky! I will have him read this. Might be very interesting for the roguish fighter indeed. Thanks! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 10:52:45
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For a slightly different roguish-fighter, try the Scout class from Complete Adventurer. It's similar to a rogue but more wilderness oriented, and instead of Sneak Attack you get the Skirmish ability. Basically if you move 10 feet before your attack you get a bonus to your damage, and you also gain bonuses to your AC. The damage bonus/AC bonus alternate, with +1d6 damage bonus at 1st level, +2d6 at 5th, +3d6 at 9th, etc. The AC increases are +1 at 3rd, +2 at 7th, and so on. It's an interesting style for a mobile combatant, a bit different to the fighter/rogue with it's emphasis on sneak attacks.
For the barbarian, there's several ways to do it. The most traditional uses power attack and cleave, but also takes feats like improved bull rush, improved sunder, and improved overrun to get some control over opponents ability to hurt them. The mobile version takes advantage of fast movement and lighter armour, and tries to use spring attack to keep out of reach of the toughest enemies. A barbarian with combat expertise can be really hard to take down if they boost their AC higher, even though they can't rage and use it - but they can use feats that depend on combat expertise such as improved disarm and inproved trip. Or there are various feats that affect the barbarian's rage, and which can lead into the Frenzied Berserker prestige class. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 14:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Allright! That is nifty! Really tricky! I will have him read this. Might be very interesting for the roguish fighter indeed. Thanks!
Barbarian/rogues can be a great combo! If the player isn't interested in a sterotypical barbarian background there are still a lot of great background and role playing options too. I've seen characters you have barbarian levels who are basically less trained and polished "natural" warriors who may lack slick formal training but posess a type of warrior spirit even though they don't come from a barbaric culture.
They can be a durable and flexable party scout and front line fighter especially if there is another front line fighter in the party. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 14:53:17
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| BTW, has the player picked a race? Dwarves make awesome fighter/rogues! |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 16:15:57
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Yes he has - it will be a human! Not that he needs the extra skill points when playing a rogue.... 
Actually my friend has decided that he will for a barabarian axe wielder with some rogue levels. We see wwere that compo leads him to. Hopefully some adventures! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 10:37:55
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For a rogueish fighter,I take an exsample in my own char Rannek(was allways the meaning that I would put the most weight on him being a rogue not a fighter), I took a few levels of Fighter, alot of rogue levels and then finally the guild-rogue PrC, that combined with his personality makes Rannek a fun char to play.  |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 14:40:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Zimme
For a rogueish fighter,I take an exsample in my own char Rannek(was allways the meaning that I would put the most weight on him being a rogue not a fighter), I took a few levels of Fighter, alot of rogue levels and then finally the guild-rogue PrC, that combined with his personality makes Rannek a fun char to play.
Could you see a cleric with class levels in the Guide thief PrC, also? Just wondering...... and if yes, which deity would be most fitting? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 16:06:42
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i would say rare ... but possable if it was a cleric with strong ties to the thieves guilds
with deities ... well ... Mask is a nobrainer since he is god of thieves ... but other than that ... Cyric, Shar ... nonlawful Waukeen, ... Abbathor, Vergadain, Erevan Ilesere, Barndobaris, Shargaas
well ... theres qutie a few depending on the race and moral compass of the Thief ... |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 16:48:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Zimme
For a rogueish fighter,I take an exsample in my own char Rannek(was allways the meaning that I would put the most weight on him being a rogue not a fighter), I took a few levels of Fighter, alot of rogue levels and then finally the guild-rogue PrC, that combined with his personality makes Rannek a fun char to play.
Could you see a cleric with class levels in the Guide thief PrC, also? Just wondering...... and if yes, which deity would be most fitting?
Aye, as Sian said Mask is a no-brainer, but also a wise choice, being that as a Demark of mask receives thief abilities, which you will need for taking the Guild-rogue PrC in the first place. Other than that I guess that race plays a part also for which god the priest/Guild-rogue worships, every(allmost) race has their own god of stealth and trickery. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 11:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Yes he has - it will be a human! Not that he needs the extra skill points when playing a rogue....
Actually my friend has decided that he will for a barabarian axe wielder with some rogue levels. We see wwere that compo leads him to. Hopefully some adventures!
You can never have too many skill points!
I'd love to know what the player chooses and how they like playing it! |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 19:22:29
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| that's right bitterthorn, good for that "evil" dm planning! |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Topic |
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Variants and PrC for fighters
