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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 15:21:49
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IMPORTANT: SPOILER alert
I just want to hear the opinions from the fellow members/sages about the recent situtation of dales (Year of the risen elfkin). How will you adopt the new changes in your campaign? What will you do with the victorious elves? perhaps create a new Myth Drannor? Shall be it a secret elf-only city like Evereska or a multicultural like Silverymoon?
What about the other fraction? the remaining drow of house Jaelre? perhaps someone will make our beloved Countess Sashya return?
I am very intrested in your ideas, i hope this topic will help us adapt the new events smoothly in our campaigns. Answers dont have to be "canon" ,good ideas are always welcome as soon as they match the whole scheme.
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 08 Dec 2006 15:38:37
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 15:51:38
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I foresee that initially, non-military personnel will be barred from the city of Myth Drannor, but that Essembra will be the new Cormanthor trading post.
Further, I am planning a campaign that is a little bit of a dungeon hack in Myth Drannor. There's still all of those creepy crypts and tombs filled with 'hostiles' that need to be cleared for safe re-colonization. It is my thought that adventuring bands will be sponsored by the new elven government to deal with this. They will be paid by commission. Artifacts and heirlooms recovered will be returned to their family of origin only if that family agrees to assist in re-habitating Cormanthor. Otherwise ownership defaults to the Crusader State which will use them to restore the new kingdom, and possibly to pay the aforementined commissions.
In my campaign, the groundwork for re-colonization had been laid prior to the Last Mythal series. A band of elven adventurers had allready been combating the Cormanthor drow and creating propaganda for an Elven Return. So allready there is a fair amount of elves abroad in Faerun that are receptive to the idea of re-establishing old Cormanthor. The propaganda pre-supposes that the Dales Compact will continue and has underlying themes of multi-cultural cooperation. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 19:17:08
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If I were running a campaign--which I'm not--I would totally ignore the events of the Last Mythal series.
Also, going by the older lore, a making Myth Drannor a "secret elf-only city" totally takes away the point of it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 22:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
Further, I am planning a campaign that is a little bit of a dungeon hack in Myth Drannor. There's still all of those creepy crypts and tombs filled with 'hostiles' that need to be cleared for safe re-colonization. It is my thought that adventuring bands will be sponsored by the new elven government to deal with this.
I think this is a very good idea. If I choose to adopt the recent developments (I often ignore canon changes if they complicate/alter my campaign too much), this is how I see an "ideal Myth Drannor" campaign should be. Especially, when Myth Drannor is almost too dangerous to run as it has been... in one of our campaigns we had (too) frequent character deaths there, and although it is said that nothing is an overkill in MD, none of us enjoyed the campaign. Screw the long-lost elven artifacts and spells, if your character is raised or resurrected at least once per session!
i also dislike the idea about an "elves only" Myth Drannor - times are changing, and perhaps Seiveril and his Crusade (who have fought beside humans) - not to mention Fflar - would accept humans there. At least to cleanse the ruins, if not as dwellers? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 23:39:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
IMPORTANT: SPOILER alert
I just want to hear the opinions from the fellow members/sages about the recent situtation of dales (Year of the risen elfkin). How will you adopt the new changes in your campaign? What will you do with the victorious elves? perhaps create a new Myth Drannor? Shall be it a secret elf-only city like Evereska or a multicultural like Silverymoon?
What about the other fraction? the remaining drow of house Jaelre? perhaps someone will make our beloved Countess Sashya return?
I am very intrested in your ideas, i hope this topic will help us adapt the new events smoothly in our campaigns. Answers dont have to be "canon" ,good ideas are always welcome as soon as they match the whole scheme.
I'm not sure I plan to include the events of "The Last Mythal" in my FR. I like Myth Drannor the way it is. And since I do have a few problems with the elven numbers and the reclamation itself (I think Kuje nailed a couple of these major points in the current RSE scroll), bringing this type of element into my FR would severely contradict all I've written and established in my FR over the past ten years that suggests the Retreat is still in effect.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 23:52:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not sure I plan to include the events of "The Last Mythal" in my FR. I like Myth Drannor the way it is. And since I do have a few problems with the elven numbers and the reclamation itself (I think Kuje nailed a couple of these major points in the current RSE scroll), bringing this type of element into my FR would severely contradict all I've written and established in my FR over the past ten years that suggests the Retreat is still in effect.
I know I'm not going to bring these events into my FR and it's more then just the elven numbers. I've had PC's, in 2e, create a elven city that is basically the same as MD and the city that Khelben created in the new lore. So, I have no need for these two new canon cities. Plus, like you, I like MD the way it is and I have had to much history/plots written about it to change it. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 02:45:05
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| This is sort of a departure from the original topic, but some very prolific voices have now stated that their campaigns will be ignoring the events of these novels. Might I ask why? |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 02:50:30
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
This is sort of a departure from the original topic, but some very prolific voices have now stated that their campaigns will be ignoring the events of these novels. Might I ask why?
Well, me and Sage expressed why we'll be ignoring the material. :) We both have to much in game history to use what WOTC has changed or we prefer MD as it was originally. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 02:53:09
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| I'm ignoring the changes for much the same reasons. I wasn't impressed with the LM trilogy in general, and I prefer MD the way it was before--as a ruin and a memory of a different time. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 02:57:29
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My last campaign already touched on some of the events from the novels. One of the PCs was a cleric of Helm that wanted to build a small temple in the Dalelands, and thought that the perfect spot would be outside of the Beast Country near Pelden's Helm in Mistledale. It took a while, but by the end of the campaign the temple was being built, and since that player was leaving, I gave him a synopsis of what happened to his temple in the next year or so when the campaign wrapped.
Essentially when the fiendish hordes stormed through the dales, the temple served at the defensive bastion that all of the people of Pelden's Helm managed to huddle in to survive. After loosing his betrothed, the cleric left the temple to the staff and ended up exploring Myth Drannor and building friendships with the elves, while trying to come to terms with his loss.
I also had an elven chronomancer as a "villain" in the campaign (sort of my version of Parallax, for anyone familiar with DC Comics) that was trying to save Myth Drannor, despite having visions of what this would do to the other nations around Cormanthor. In the end, she was given a vision by Labelas Enoreth that she was not to save Myth Drannor because its story was not ended yet, and she was given to know that it would rise again, and so she apologized to the PCs that she had manipulated and sent hurtling through time, etc. She died before she could see it refounded, but made the PCs promise to aid in its rebirth.
At any rate, if my next campaign should take place near enough to Myth Drannor to utilize any of this information (I usually backdate my campaign's start a few years, so that I can get a better handle on what I want my PCs to run into), I'm going to play it that Myth Drannor, at the begining, is a bit isolated, but that they are allowing humans and other races of good nature and that are skilled as adventurers to help them clear out some of the more dangerous parts of the city and its environs, and if they make a good impression, said adventurers will be some of the first non-elves invited to stay in the newly refounded city.
The novels do seem to set up that the elves might have control of key points on the surface right off the bat, but that there is still a lot to do in the catacombs and the forests around the city itself, so there would still be a lot of interesting and dangerous adventure sites in and around Myth Drannor to begin with.
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Draeden
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 04:49:06
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I am conflicted about the Elves seeking to rebuild Myth Drannor on the ruins of the original. On the one hand, I can see it as a vindication of the hope and vision the Coronal Eltargrim had for the people of Cormanthor. But on the other, I would think that for the elves that the ruins of Myth Drannor hold tremendous pain for them. All of the lives that were lost there, I can only imagine it is the same sense of reverence that I felt when I visited Gettysburg. The tie that the elves have with the land and their strong family connections would only heighten the sense of loss that Myth Drannor would hold for them.
The other problem that I would envision is that Coronal Elargrim's existing together philosophy was not universally endorsed by the Elves. Considering that there are currently elves willing to covertly work with Lolth, assassinate their own Kings, and to destroy the High Tower of Magic on Evermeet...it is more than a passing problem. The tendency that the elves as a whole are seemingly more willing to lay the destruction of Myth Drannor at the feet of other races than to face the role that they played in its loss is further evidence (to me) that they are far from being able to embrace the dream.
To me, that is part of what makes the Forgotten Realm's elves so interesting though. While they accuse humans of being short sighted and so easily corrupted...within their own race they have continually made critical missteps of gigantic proportions. The High Moor stands testiment to just how fallable the elves are.
While I am not currently running a FR campaign, I would have to give the matter of Myth Drannor considerable thought.
From the perspective of a fan...I would truly like to see Srinshee return with the Rule blade (I forget the proper name at the moment) and Cormanthyr arise once more. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 06:56:42
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At the moment my own Realms Campaign is too busy writing its own history in Myth Drannor. To include the major novel events would be silly.
That said I do have a habit of including/borrowing FR novel events quite regularly in my campaign so who knows? Maybe I'll borrow some of the 'general' elven goals and actions and let the players in my campaign interact/friction with that.
My opinion on the core events in Myth Drannor are that it sucks from a DMing and playing-the-game perspective. All of a sudden the (arguably) biggest most dangerous adventuring locale east of Waterdeep is not that anymore. Yeah I suppose MD could be thought of as somehow easier to adventure in now so far as characters being able to set up a base and not having to flee for their lives out of the ruins after each adventure....I dunno.
My gut feeling is the changes suck a**.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 08:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
This is sort of a departure from the original topic, but some very prolific voices have now stated that their campaigns will be ignoring the events of these novels. Might I ask why?
Well, me and Sage expressed why we'll be ignoring the material. :) We both have to much in game history to use what WOTC has changed or we prefer MD as it was originally.
Aye.
Another reason, also, is because I do have plans of my own, in campaign, that take Myth Drannor and it's surrounding environs into future consideration. Right now, MD exists pretty much as it always has since the Fall, and... through internal campaign changes and a few other ideas I've added into my own Realmslore over the past five or so years, it will likely stay that way for some time to come.
To include the events of "The Last Mythal" would mean, as I said before, that significant changes would have to be made to my own Realmslore that's already leading elsewhere. As such, I'm not prepared to throw away nearly ten years worth of my own Realmslore and campaign history just to fit the elven reclamation of MD into my own games.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 11:44:21
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The events of the Last Mythal will be ,no doubt, fully incorporated into our game when our timeline catches up. While I would like to see RSEs either reduced in frequency or spread out more geographically, I enjoy how dynamic the Realms are. It's going to be interesting to see how the campaign arcs in Shadow Dale and Cormyr impact the regions.
BTW, I very much enjoyed the trilogy even though I'm not a big fan of elves. It was also good to see the Zents flex thier muscle as a power in the region. I think it's good for thier role as antagonist for thier vast resources to be demonstrated in the region and reinforce how potent of a threat they truly are. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2006 : 07:05:38
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here is a thought.
When I read a novel and series like the mythals, My mind goes beyond it for my campaign. Events as big as the recent novels that WOTC has kicked out, make many many ripples that go on for miles.
Clearing out the crypts and catacombs will do one thing. Kick monsters up into the surface and push them out into civlized areas. Then like Sanishiver said "biggest most dangerous adventuring locale east of Waterdeep .." is cleared out, Adventurers will be like American Indians following the buffalo. Waterdep and the Northern Sword coast will see a diminished Population. Waterhavian adventurers will all start saying:
"What? The dales? why go there? Myth Drannor is clean, Nothing good up there to examine..Hey! Lets go South!"
Only thing that will keep adventurers to the North is afore mentioned Monsters now looking for a new home wandering the countryside, killing farmers or living in barns.
It's a toss up for me, Incorporating the mythals will be something I'll have to think about, because to me, the ripples will move over ALL of Faerun's Northern Part and I have too much built by my own hand to go wrecking it.
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Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2006 : 07:13:25
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Well, even if Myth Drannor is cleared out, you have Maalthiir and the Red Plumes on the loose after being kicked out of Hillsfar, the Cormanthor drow are still around, the Zhentarim are in Hillsfar, and you have what is going on in the Twilight War books going on just south of the Dales in Sembia . . . so its not like the region isn't still going to draw adventurers and mercenaries.
I can see a lot of adventurers trying their hand in Myth Drannor for reputations sake and because of the rumored treasures there, but at the same time, the region is going to have an influx of elves and other races seeking a new home in Myth Drannor, so I would guess even with fewer adventurers, the economics of the area would be better off for the new settlers.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2006 : 08:18:24
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| In my realms this, as most other changes will go unheeded. I have no need for a reclaimed Myth Drannor and my thoughts on the region does not go in that direction. There may be an increase in elven activity but it will take a different form and be hidden. As I only read the first book of the series I can not say anything about the other changes, but what I have heard until now does not interest me. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2006 : 01:14:06
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| I will be incorporating them, but making sure I put a spin on them in such a way that they fit into my campaign properly. The same as with everything else. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2006 : 10:42:07
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| I like i like MD as it is, Elven ruins in the middle of an ancient forest is a site worth of exploring/adventuring, im thinking that if my campaign ignore the whole chain of events, perhaps it would be a bit out-dated? I mean i expect Wotc (personal opinion, otherwise i dont have a clue) to give us lots of info about the new MD, perhaps it will be the new "where things happens" site worth mentioning. I am worring if i not include it, adventuring in the dales would be like adventuring in the north without Waterdeep or Silverymoon |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2006 : 12:33:18
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I guess that everyone is entitled to their opinions. I like the Last Mythal so much that I halted my afore-mentioned campaign to see how the novels panned out. But then, I always wanted an elven resurgence in Cormanthor.
By contrast, I have ignored the Phaerimm assault on Evereska... dumb. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Drunken Master
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2006 : 18:00:18
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| My campaign is set in the Summer of 1373, and one of my players is going to be searching Myth Drannor for his family's long-lost moonblade in the coming months. They should find it and get out of Myth Drannor right before the Crusade starts. After that, I enjoy the idea of the Reclamation, and will include its events in the campaign. Myth Drannor will have served its purpose as a dangerous ruined city of monsters and magic, and then the party can move on to Undermountain and Waterdeep. |
Erik Nowak
Graphic Designer, Blackdirge Publishing |
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Questions about the new Dales Situtation
