| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 10:23:07
|
Here's one for you.
I have never really looked into Yule in the Realms but,
Here in the Real World we have Ol' Nick aka Santa Claus.
In Diskworld they have The HogFather.
Who do we have in The Realms ? Elminster 
Is there a mystical anthropormorphic personification (sorry just watched Hogfather on sky) in other words who is Forgotten Realms's Santa?
Just wondering....
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36894 Posts |
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 11:15:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not that I know of... But you could use Nicholas the Gift-Giver. 
I havn't been on the WotC site for a while and hadn't seen that.
Maybe a mystical anthropormorphic personification for the Yuletide season should be written in FR Folflore!
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
 |
|
|
ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 12:51:49
|
Delz,
In the tome from Bastion Press, FAERIES, Bryon Wischstadt has statted St. Nick. I can not remember what name they use, maybe Father Christmas... So, give him a Realmsian name and as the realm of Faerie can access Abeir Toril, there you go...
|
ShadowJack |
|
|
|
WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 13:21:38
|
In ancient European mythology (the origin of Yule or Yuletide), this holiday was a Solstice celebration with mystical connotations concerning the dead. Faerun has a winter holiday like that doesn't it? Anyway... here's a piece on Yule from wikipedia.
quote:
The confraternities of artisans of the 9th century, which developed into the medieval guilds, were denounced by Catholic clergy for their "conjurations" when they swore to support one another in coming adversity and in business ventures. The occasions were annual banquets on December 26,
"feast day of the pagan god Jul, when it was possible to couple with the spirits of the dead and with demons that returned to the surface of the earth... Many clerics denounced these conjurations as being not only a threat to public order but also, more serious in their eyes, satanic and immoral. Hincmar, in 858, sought in vain to Christianize them" (Rouche 1987, p. 432).
|
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
|
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 13:28:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
In ancient European mythology (the origin of Yule or Yuletide), this holiday was a Solstice celebration with mystical connotations concerning the dead. Faerun has a winter holiday like that doesn't it? Anyway... here's a piece on Yule from wikipedia.
quote:
The confraternities of artisans of the 9th century, which developed into the medieval guilds, were denounced by Catholic clergy for their "conjurations" when they swore to support one another in coming adversity and in business ventures. The occasions were annual banquets on December 26,
"feast day of the pagan god Jul, when it was possible to couple with the spirits of the dead and with demons that returned to the surface of the earth... Many clerics denounced these conjurations as being not only a threat to public order but also, more serious in their eyes, satanic and immoral. Hincmar, in 858, sought in vain to Christianize them" (Rouche 1987, p. 432).
Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....
The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!
They stylised St Nick aka Santa aka Father Christmas in red and white and gave him the "traditional" image we see today, after taking the original santa myth from folk lore and religion!
Prehaps we could think up a new portfloio for a suitable god, so they can become a santa like figure in the realms?
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 13:49:32
|
hmm in dragonlance they got the old man in the white robes.. so the realms should have something too. Donno....the old netherese in the frayed robe  ...something |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
|
Edited by - Zimme on 19 Dec 2006 13:50:29 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 14:45:02
|
He sounds a bit like FizBan who was Paladine if I'm not mistaken
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36894 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 17:05:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....
The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!
Buzzzt! Incorrect! That is a modern myth. See this site: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp
Incidentally, that's one of my fave websites. I can spend hours just clicking links on there... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 17:13:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....
The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!
Buzzzt! Incorrect! That is a modern myth. See this site: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp
Incidentally, that's one of my fave websites. I can spend hours just clicking links on there...
You learn something everyday, I always belived in this, I was told by a college prof..
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 17:15:53
|
It's funny someone said Elminster, since Ed said this in 2004:
"December 29, 2004: BrokenRulz, Ed hereafter makes answer to your question: “How does Elminster celebrate the Yuletide/Soltice?”
The axial tilt, size, and rotational period of Toril are close to our Earth’s but not identical. Solstices do occur, and at such times “the Weave shines forth most brightly” in the Realms.
Which is the bardic way of saying that at such times there’s some restlessness in Mystra, due to her origins (Selune), and the Weave is therefore more active than at most other times (with surges of raw magical energy washing back and forth, sometimes ‘powering up’ cast spells to greater damage, duration, or area of effect than would normally be possible, and more often spitting off unintended wild magic side effects). Beyond such happenings, this time of year has little greater significance to Mystra and her Chosen. However, Elminster has visited our Earth often, and is familiar with Yule celebrations and the more modern commercial Christmas. (So, to a much more limited extent, are Laeral and The Simbul and Storm.)
El has little use for presents and much of the foolishness associated with the etiquette of modern organized faiths of any sort, but it pleases his nature to do at Yuletide what he’s always done as a Chosen: help folk and support their belief in magic or strength of Sense of Wonder.
In other words, he gives gifts of food, unlooked-for aid, and spell-cast warmth and shelter to those in need in the bitter winter cold, AND enjoys playing a mysterious Father Christmas figure, especially if he can do small acts of magic observed by one or two beings at a time rather than large audiences, so he can foster a belief in magic in those observers (awakening awe in adults - - and teenagers who’ve just scornfully stopped believing in Santa Claus - - of our world, in particular).
He enjoys showing up wherever I am, late on the night of Christmas Eve/wee hours of Christmas morning, and letting me see his wink and wave as he works some small magic to awe a youngster. And downs something handy from my wine cellar or liquour cabinet, too.
So saith Ed.
A night or two late for this Christmas, but the Master of the Realms keeps up with his Candlekeep answers as best he can at this frenetic (both for writing and family celebrations) time of year.
love to all,
THO"
I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 23:20:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.
Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 23:55:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.
Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.
And I'm just not amused by Halloween. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 23:56:30
|
Okay, I'm ending this before it gets out of hand.
Let's try and keep our personal views regarding religion out of this discussion please.
If further discussion on the religious aspects of this scroll are required, I would suggest using either PMs or emails.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Dec 2006 00:00:47 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 00:22:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.
Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.
It's clearly not a Christian holiday, but let's leave it at that especially since the Celts had it first as Samhain.
And to keep this on topic, I'd love to have more details on the other festivals in FR. Sure, I can use pagan references from Earth for them, but it's not the same. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 20 Dec 2006 00:28:06 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 00:59:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.
Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.
It's clearly not a Christian holiday, but let's leave it at that especially since the Celts had it first as Samhain.
Indeed. Aspects of the Catholic "All Souls' Day" and Halloween are usually considered as modern derivatives of the ancient Celtic tradition.
quote:
And to keep this on topic, I'd love to have more details on the other festivals in FR. Sure, I can use pagan references from Earth for them, but it's not the same.
Agreed.
And we've seen a few festivals mentioned in the Realmslore, though with little actual information behind them.
I may just put together a list for Ed!
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 01:29:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
Who do we have in The Realms ? Elminster
See Eds Elminster novels, Elminster being Sanata is practically true the only difference is that Santa climbs down the chimney of your house and puts presents by your christmas tree. Elminster breaks into your crypt or tomb after your dead and sticks Wands, Staffs scrolls and Spellbooks in your coffin! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 07:49:38
|
| A year ago I tried to make a deity out of Santa. You can watch it here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5770 |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
|
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 14:41:47
|
| OK so who is the Realms Santa?????? |
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 15:19:04
|
This http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20021225x might be of some use, however not realm specific.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 15:58:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
[br
Prehaps we could think up a new portfloio for a suitable god, so they can become a santa like figure in the realms?
Delz
I hate to quote myself BUT... there have done,
How about a ONE NIGHT PER YEAR folio for AO as the ALL GIVER?
At least it will give him something to do apart from kicking Bane up the arse every now and then!
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 23:36:30
|
I still believe in Santa Claus. Maybe that's why I like Elminster so much?
|
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 18:31:37
|
This is a neat thread!
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
In ancient European mythology (the origin of Yule or Yuletide), this holiday was a Solstice celebration with mystical connotations concerning the dead.
And the Realms Santa . . . .
Jergal.
***
"Mommy, why does the praying mantis have a beard?"
"Suspend your disbelief, honey. Suspend your disbelief."
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 19:45:12
|
| I thought yule/midwinter and midsummer were traditionally all about bonking... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 19:49:29
|
*Laughs at Mace's comment*
I am sure all the roman catholics of old went around saying to their wives,
"It's snowing...get into bed.."
Walkerninja, i've heard the same thing. That Yuletide was a celebration of death, and spring of rebirth. |
Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 01:01:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I thought yule/midwinter and midsummer were traditionally all about bonking...
I thought that was spring...or anytime, for some people.
There is something romantic about wintertime romance, though ("Walkin' in a Winter Wonderland"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 11:30:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by LucianBarasu
*Laughs at Mace's comment*
I am sure all the roman catholics of old went around saying to their wives,
"It's snowing...get into bed.."
Walkerninja, i've heard the same thing. That Yuletide was a celebration of death, and spring of rebirth.
LB, That almost makes me want to belive..... Nahh second thoughts.
WN, Yes I had thought that too Death and rebirth.
Erik Scott de Bie, Thanks I've just started thinking about Xmas in relation to the realms. That and anthropormorphic personifications.
Delz
|
I'm Back! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
A Yule Mystical Anthropormorphic Personification?
