| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 15:57:31
|
Well my players want a break from our long standing heroic campaign and something a little more adult. They still want to play in the Realms but would prefer a license to misbehave while dealing with problems not easily solvable by sticking one's blade into it.
I was watching the season premier of Rome and it occurred to me that this show might be just what the doctor recommends. A work set in the Realms where sex, violence, and cruelty are a way of life.
The real question is where to set it honestly. Also, what sort of plots to do in such a case since they're very far removed from the usual D&D ideal.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 16:22:56
|
| For the setting, Waterdeep might work if you played up some of the aristocratic behaviour. Other good places might be Westgate - vampires, nobles, and merchants; Calimport - you can do what you want if you've got the money, and the combination of extremely wealthy "nobles" and a mass of poor citizens seems quite Rome-like; somewhere in Amn, probably Athkatla, where there's a war going on in the background and a lot of corruption; or perhaps somewhere in Dambrath, where the government is a mix of disinterested drow nobles, their Crinti descendants, and the Church of Loviatar. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
 |
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 16:32:59
|
I'm leaning towards Cormyr even if it is very French Medieval nobility feel as opposed to Roman. They have the scheming nobility and it wouldn't be that difficult to make a Parliament in the wake of Azoun's death that the Imperial Household has to deal with.
On the other hand, it might be easier to use Elves actually since the Gold and Moon Elf troubles make them out to be an oversexed bunch of losers anyway.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 17:04:17
|
| Thay ? |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 17:19:31
|
The three cities you mention are too steeped in 'good' to allow much of what you want. Thay would work, but unless you are a Red Wizard you aren't going to get away with any of that stuff.
I would suggest Skuld, capital of Mulhorand. It's current military expansions would fit right in with a group looking for some 'work', and powerful warriors would do just as well as mages. Also, I watch Rome too, and you need slavery to make it work; Mulhorand has that, and they treat slaves better then Thay or the Underdark (in other words, they live more then a few weeks). Skuld is also ANCIENT, and very cosmopolitan.
Calimport would also work, but it's too far from the center of things, and your campaign would have an Arabian Nights feel. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jan 2007 17:21:37 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 19:19:37
|
| Actually, I think this kind of plot could work in just about any type of urban setting, even in cities that are traditionally thought of as "good" (not that I believe in the whole "good city, evil city" fantasy cliche). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:24:27
|
I'm not unwilling to shake up the cities a bit. In Waterdeep, given recent events that I shall not spoil, you could open with the assassination of a certain Paladin King and hand the city over to the noble houses. There's already slavery going on in the city just beneath the control and it wouldn't take that much of a change to get it remade.
Cormyr you're right that it would be difficult to make life so utterly cheap as to what makes Rome great.
Westgate and Baldur's Gate oddly seem TOO uncivilized for the whole thing to work though.
Skuld might work but you're dealing with essentially a domain that is always better visited but not stayed in. Mulhorand is Ancient Egypt after all and you really might as well not be in the Realms if you stay too long. Sort of like playing Al-Quadim and claiming you're playing a Realms game. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
Edited by - Charles Phipps on 15 Jan 2007 20:25:33 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:30:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm not unwilling to shake up the cities a bit. In Waterdeep, given recent events that I shall not spoil, you could open with the assassination of a certain Paladin King and hand the city over to the noble houses. There's already slavery going on in the city just beneath the control and it wouldn't take that much of a change to get it remade.
Killing off the Open Lord would not remove the other 19 Hidden Lords... They'd simply select a new Open Lord. And I think it would take some serious changes to get Waterdhavians to accept slavery... It's just not something the average Waterdhavian would accept. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:46:28
|
True, you'd need something like the Knights of the Shield successfully eliminating most of the Hidden Lords off in order to make such a radical change. Still, such changes are possible if the city's two most powerful Lords are removed from play. Larael seems like she'd have better things to do than serve as Waterdeep's guardian against the trade of lives.
I'm not so sure about slavery not being accepted by the average Waterhavian though. Though it's probably my assumptions about racism in the Realms, I'm assuming it'd probably be accepted if the majority of the individuals enslaved were nonhuman.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:50:18
|
| I'd think Waterdeep is too multicultural to allow it, and shaking up the status quo would require a large proportion of the population to support it. I don't see that happening, as most people are happy with the current system and all the checks and balances in place. And then you factor in Skullport. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:53:09
|
| I'd have thought somewhere in Sembia would be a good bet. It's commerce-driven, money is what people respect and some people will stoop to whatever level is necessary to succeed. Factor in mercenaries and a well-known but little discussed dark side to the place, and you have what strikes me as an ideal setting. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 21:37:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
True, you'd need something like the Knights of the Shield successfully eliminating most of the Hidden Lords off in order to make such a radical change. Still, such changes are possible if the city's two most powerful Lords are removed from play. Larael seems like she'd have better things to do than serve as Waterdeep's guardian against the trade of lives.
I'm not so sure about slavery not being accepted by the average Waterhavian though. Though it's probably my assumptions about racism in the Realms, I'm assuming it'd probably be accepted if the majority of the individuals enslaved were nonhuman.
Laeral isn't a Lord...
Waterdhavians are quite accepting of other races... Heck, look at the critters working at the Misty Beard! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 21:44:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
True, you'd need something like the Knights of the Shield successfully eliminating most of the Hidden Lords off in order to make such a radical change. Still, such changes are possible if the city's two most powerful Lords are removed from play. Larael seems like she'd have better things to do than serve as Waterdeep's guardian against the trade of lives.
I'd be more inclined to think that the Shadow Thieves might pull this off, given their history, if anyone was going to do it. Still, it would take a lot, and I love my Waterdeep too much to contemplate it in my campaigns. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 23:11:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Waterdhavians are quite accepting of other races... Heck, look at the critters working at the Misty Beard!
Indeed.
Steven's CoS even notes that "evil" races are usually allowed within Waterdeep, to trade, to seek employment etc. So long as they obey local laws, and the Watch and the Guard are able to keep close tabs on them... almost all are welcome in Waterdeep.
There is, of course, the regular Waterdhavian hostility toward drow, illithids, and lower planar denizens -- who usually aren't seen in the city proper.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 23:14:17
|
Laeral isn't an issue because she's a Lord of Waterdeep. Larael is an issue because any government that she stands against is going to have to be pretty damn powerful not for her to topple at will if she chooses to set herself against such. Let's not forget that Quilue also lives in Waterdeep but I think she won't involve herself in anything unless it involves Good Aligned Drow.
Sembia might definitely be the best place for this sort of intrigue but its a place that is difficult to take seriously as well. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:26:58
|
| why not just create your own city and use parts from others you deem needed in yours to give it that "ROME" feel? |
Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
|
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:39:48
|
Well it's not Rome in the Realms. It's a HBO's Rome themed FR game.
:-)
I.e. taking the existing city of the Realms. Upping the sex, violence, and moral ambiguity while keeping it knee deep in intrigue.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Jan 2007 00:40:34 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 01:02:13
|
I have to second Lucian--nothing wrong with making your own city if existing cities won't give you satisfactory results.  |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 01:17:56
|
Well I'm not doing that, my players would leave the table in disgust. They despise home brew, partially because of my early and rather amateurish efforts at it.
My current choices are going to be
1. Netheril: Setting the player characters in the city of Shade as members of the Shadovar commoners sent to go forth and subdue barbarians, establish alliances/trade routes, etc while the Netherese struggle to rebuild the glory of their dying civilization. This has the benefit of a glorious and ancient civilization, the city is utterly evil, and there's nothing keeping powerful noble families backstabbing one another.
or
2. Vice City Waterdeep: Effectively, the corruption in Waterdeep amped up. The City of Splendors is tied intimately to Skullport as all the major families profit from the slave trade and illegalities going on there so that its now more of a institution in the city that otherwise. The apathy gripping the city is based around the fact that "out of sight is out of mind" and that plenty of slaves have other titles for them.
Perhaps some unnamed calamity has caused the city to become much more a festering hive of evil. The Shadow Thieves, Elaith, and Knights of the Shield are major players in the city while the Lords are now a bunch of squabblers as power has passed from their hands. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Jan 2007 01:18:30 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 02:54:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well I'm not doing that, my players would leave the table in disgust. They despise home brew, partially because of my early and rather amateurish efforts at it.
Don't see the difference between making a new city and totally changing the nature of an existing one.
Anyway, I'd go for the Shade option. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 03:00:35
|
| I would think creating an entirely new city the scope of Rome would take a lot of work! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 03:06:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
I would think creating an entirely new city the scope of Rome would take a lot of work!
It doesn't have to be the scope of Rome, just of a certain, similar nature. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 03:39:44
|
| Ive always pictured Mourktar as having a roman flavour to it with the the Imperceptor who rules the Black Lords Cloak temple functioning as an Emperor or Dictator |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 13:42:14
|
| Hmmm Mulmaster might work ya got the Zhentarim running things now through Rassendyl who is posing as Selfaril as High Blade. You got the intrigue of the Red Wizards and the Cloaks. Just my 2 cents |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 16:32:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Don't see the difference between making a new city and totally changing the nature of an existing one.
Anyway, I'd go for the Shade option.
Ditto, to both points -- especially the first one. If you're going to go against established lore and turn a city into something it is not, you might as well craft a new one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 20:11:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Sembia might definitely be the best place for this sort of intrigue but its a place that is difficult to take seriously as well.
May I enquire is to why this is the case? |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 20:20:28
|
| Just an FYI, but there is a NWN2 persistent world project that uses Rome as its setting. It might be worth a look to see how they're adapting that setting to D&D. I have no idea how as to how well realized it may be: http://nwn2rome.proboards84.com/index.cgi |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 22:43:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well I've never seen Waterdeep as a place lacking a seedy side.
Agreed, but they aren't that keen on slavery, at least not in the open.
By the way, the Border Kingdoms would be a good place to locate your own seedy city. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 22:49:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
By the way, the Border Kingdoms would be a good place to locate your own seedy city.
Now that's a good idea. Your kingdom, your rules. Makes perfect sense and kingdoms rise and fall so swiftly there it can fit nicely in with existing lore. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 22:55:23
|
Simply put, a homebrewed city would be the center of a Roman urban campaign and that would just not be "Realms."
Unless you can explain otherwise.
But I have some interesting ideas for Shade.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
HBO's Waterdeep, Cormyr, or Halruaa?
