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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 16:13:03
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My best friend has roped me into subbing in for one his players. Who has recently moved out of state. They are currently running a Waterdeep/North campaign. Unfortunetly the role the previous player's character was that of the damage sponge of the group.
I have little experience playing the Tank in a party in 3.0/3.5. I usually play the party rogue, bard, or whatever is the most versitial class that fits the campaign)
I figured a fighter would be my starting class but to what feats to take and what prestige class to take after that leaves me drawing a blank. I am starting out at 7th level.
Any Ideas on how to make good defensive warrior who can take a lickin and keep on tickin would be appreciated.
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Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 16:47:00
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Improved Toughness would be good (its in Complete Warrior and Libris Mortis, in case those sources aren't available in the campaign). This basically gives you one extra hit point per level. Oddly enough, improved initiative has worked out well for me, because it gives you a chance to put yourself between the weaker party members and whatever danger you are face, or it gives you a chance to charge the big bad guy and draw its attention to you.
Iron Will is a good one to keep you from being your own party's worst nightmare, which is protection in and of itself.
As far as really good defensive feats, there aren't many in the PHB. Most are offensive in nature, and are pretty good for making you better at hitting things and dispatching them. If you are looking for purely defensive feats, the Player's Handbook II has a lot of them. Shield specialization lets you pick a type of shield and get an extra AC boost from it, and armor specialization gives you DR for a given type of armor, although I believe armor specialization is beyond what a 7th level character can pick up.
If you get shield specialization, you can pick up shield ward, which lets you add your shield bonus to your touch armor class.
That's all I got for now. |
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summerisle
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 03:28:01
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Defensive tank? Hmmm, you might consider some combination of the following:
* use a reach weapon (glaive, halberd, ranseur, longspear, etc.)
* use WeapFoc and WeapSpec for whichever reach weapon you decide on
* Take Quickdraw, and take a backup two-handed weapon in case someone gets inside your reach
* Use Combat Expertise, along with any combination of Improved Trip, Disarm, and Sunder.
* Consider using Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack with your reach weapon if you're comfortable using lightweight armor
I'd skip the prestige class at 7th level - that might be too early for you to specialize, and inasmuch as you're not comfortable with the tank role, this might get you into trouble.
Just a quick (off the top of my head) fighter using some of the ideas I mentioned:
If you're using point-buy to generate the character, i'd suggest something like the following:
Human Fighter 7
S 14 D 12 C 15 I 13 W 10 C 08
With your stat bump from 4th, this would look something like:
S 14 D 12 C 16 I 13 W 10 C 08
Maybe your feat selection would be something like:
Bonus - Combat Expertise (Int 13 Prereq)
1st - Improved Toughness (Base Fort +2 Prereq)
1st - Weapon Focus - Glaive
2nd - Dodge
3rd - Mobility
4th - Weapon Specialization - Glaive
6th - Spring Attack
6th - Quickdraw
This would give you decent hit points (d10+4 per level - figure 70 HP or so, depending on if your DM lets you average your HD from lvl 2-7), the combat expertise feat, which will let you take up to a -5 penalty on your AB and apply it to your armor class, +10/+5 to hit (not counting any magical bonuses your weapon has), +5 damage (again, not counting magical bonuses), the ability to move within 10' of an enemy, hit them, and move away. At 8th level I'd take Combat Reflexes and Improved Init as feats. Just stick with light armor (mithril breastplate or the like), and you can move 6 squares total and get a single attack. Boots of striding adds 2 squares to this. And of course you threaten 10', so you can take a 5' and nail a target twice at 10'. Quickdraw lets you draw a weapon as a free action, so if someone gets inside your reach, you can drop your glaive and draw your heavy flail, take a full attack action, and take a 5' step at the end.
And then there's always the monk who can tumble through occupied squares, and coupled with Spring Attack this can be nasty. There are several ways of doing it, but in the end, maximize your hit points and keep your movement as fast as possible. In my experience, tactical movement is very important in DnD 3.x games I've played in and run. YMMV.
Good luck! drop me a note or whatever if you've got any more questions.
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 16:51:36
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So, how's this going? Did you make the PC yet?
quote:
Originally posted by Bladedancer
My best friend has roped me into subbing in for one his players. Who has recently moved out of state. They are currently running a Waterdeep/North campaign. Unfortunetly the role the previous player's character was that of the damage sponge of the group.
I have little experience playing the Tank in a party in 3.0/3.5. I usually play the party rogue, bard, or whatever is the most versitial class that fits the campaign)
I figured a fighter would be my starting class but to what feats to take and what prestige class to take after that leaves me drawing a blank. I am starting out at 7th level.
Any Ideas on how to make good defensive warrior who can take a lickin and keep on tickin would be appreciated.
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"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 04:37:54
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We haven't begun play yet. The dm broke his leg in 3 places in a slip and fall off his porch (Damn cold,icy Michigan weather!) He just got back home after 2 surgeries to put his leg back together. He actually called all of us and told us to be ready to play by next Tuesday (how that for a trooper).
As of yet I am still working on my character but I will probably be following the sound advice of summerisle. Any other ideas would be helpful though |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 05:38:22
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| i would personally use a spiked chain instead and wait with the Improved Toughness feat till 8'th level and use that feat for Exotic weapon proficienty... you'll trip your enemies to death and standing up from prone gives you attack of opportunity then :) ... and since your tripping with a weapon they doesn't get Attack of opportunity on you while you try tripping |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
Edited by - Sian on 19 Feb 2007 05:40:44 |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 10:24:03
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If you really want to upset your DM, do what Sian says! I speak from experience.
The main fighter in the campaign I run uses a spiked chain with deadly efficiency. We have had to "house rule" that in order to trip someone, you must be adjacent to him/her. No tripping from 10' away! Man, did that ever get broken! The player had combat reflexes and improved trip so anytime some poor enemy walked within 10' of him, he would trip him with his attack of opportunity. Then, when the poor sap tries to get up, he gets swatted again!
Our house rule has worked pretty well, but you don't have to mention it to your battered and beaten DM... at least not for a few sessions... |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 10:37:50
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| You might want to try a Knight and max out on stuff that increases your AC and HPs and invest in a suit of Adamantine Full Plate for DR |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 13:50:11
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What you do depends to a large extent on the rest of the party. If it's full of people who can do lots of ranged damage then a defensive tank is the way to go, but if you have to go into melee offensively then you will need a different set of abilities.
For the defensive tank I'd suggest that Combat Reflexes is an essential feat, simply because enemies who slip past you are a serious threat to the rest of the party. It's also a prerequisite for the Hold the Line feat (CW) which lets you take an attack of opportunity on an enemy who enters a square you threaten. That reduces the biggest weakness in the reach weapon builds, which is with a charging opponent getting inside your weapon's reach. I'd also select Combat Expertise for improved AC; Improved Toughness since no fighter has too many hps; and Improved Initiative is a good pick. What I wouldn't do is take feats from the Dodge-Mobility-SA line other than dodge. The others are most useful for a fighter who's going to be on the move a lot, and a defensive tank probably won't be.
My build would be something like this.
Human Fighter 7
S 14 D 14 C 14 I 13 W 10 C 08
Add +1 to Con at 4th level
Bonus - Combat Expertise or Luck of Heroes (+1 to all saves and AC)
1st - Improved Toughness
1st - Combat Reflexes
2nd - Dodge or Combat Expertise
3rd - Hold the Line
4th - Improved Initiative or Dodge
6th - Weapon Focus (your preferred 1-handed melee weapon)
6th - Weapon Specialisation (1-handed melee weapon)
At 8th level I'd select Improved Sunder as an effective way to disarm powerful melee opponents, and add +1 to Con again.
For a more aggressive build, drop Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line in favour of Power Attack and Cleave. You're also better off with a 2-handed melee weapon, and you would do better with a higher Strength score. One advantage is that if you do get an attack of opportunity and drop an opponent, you can cleave into another immediately. I would suggest Power Attack and Cleave as feats for 9th/10th level for a defensive tank.
For DMs bothered by the spiked-chain users among their players, a nasty trick is to have an ogre (large, with a 10' reach anyway) attempt to Sunder the weapon from a distance. When their precious chain is in danger of breaking, it's surprising how many fighters will alter their fighting style. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 17:11:10
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I concur with Power attack and combat reflexes as being "must haves" if you are using a reach weapon.
Also consider wearing armor spikes or spiked gauntlets in case someone gets inside you reach. I love Quick draw for its cool factor, but it's not a very optimized feat.
I would also consider:
(note: We allow this to work with 2 handed weapons in our game. YMMV)
Improved Buckler Defense
Type: General
Source: Complete Warrior
You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler's shield bonus to your Armor Class.
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When you attack with a weapon in your off-hand, you may still apply your buckler's shield bonus to your Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Buckler Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Normal: Without this feat, a character wielding a buckler who attacks with an off-hand weapon loses the buckler's shield bonus to AC until his or her next turn. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 18:17:10
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| Diehard is a must for a feat. In Walkerninja's campaign (see Jeweled Edge journal) my character Angorn quickly (2 rounds)found himself at -6 hit points, but continued to lay the enemy low. He also allowed the Tireless feat as a substitute for the Endurance feat. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 21:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Diehard is a must for a feat. In Walkerninja's campaign (see Jeweled Edge journal) my character Angorn quickly (2 rounds)found himself at -6 hit points, but continued to lay the enemy low.
Heh Heh Heh... yeah, Diehard = Good, but often overlooked. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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A Party Tank Query
