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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 12:55:36
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I can't find detailed anywhere the location that a lich will rise again at if he is destroyed without his phylactery being destroyed. Does he rise again at the point of his destruction? Does he rise near the phylactery? Does it depend on the lich - can it be built into the phylactery initally?
Thoughts?
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gribble_the_munchkin
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 13:54:03
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| We generally have a lich "respawn" next to his phylactery. On one occasion this led to much hilarity as the players had stuffed the liches phylactery (his femur) into a bag of holding and pretty much forgotten about it until they opened the bag several months later and pulled out a fully formed and rather angry lich. Luckily for them without his items and access to his spellbooks while in the bag he wasn't nearly as hard to kill the second time round. |
"We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number, please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again" |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 17:50:53
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| It depends on the lich. Maybe a lich whose phylactery isn't destroyed behaves like a contingency spell. That is the lich has planned where he or she may rise in the event of the destruction of their body. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 15 Feb 2007 17:51:18 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 23:29:06
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quote:
Originally posted by gribble_the_munchkin
We generally have a lich "respawn" next to his phylactery. On one occasion this led to much hilarity as the players had stuffed the liches phylactery (his femur) into a bag of holding and pretty much forgotten about it until they opened the bag several months later and pulled out a fully formed and rather angry lich. Luckily for them without his items and access to his spellbooks while in the bag he wasn't nearly as hard to kill the second time round.
I'm loving this tale!  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 03:58:51
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All in all there appears to be two options.
Rebirth at site of death (OK not really dead).
Rebirth at/by phylactery.
I can not find any direct rule that indicates either. What the rules do say is the phylactery holds the "life force" so the later appears to be the more correct answer. After all a Vampire reduced to 0 hit points (and not killed) reforms in its coffin. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 10:58:21
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| Thanks guys, the consensus seems to be respawn at phylactery. Which is perfect because it means the PCs have just defeated a fire-happy lich that will reform in the middle of a small community of elves who are helping them. HA! |
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MaxKaladin
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2007 : 15:58:56
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quote:
Originally posted by gribble_the_munchkin
We generally have a lich "respawn" next to his phylactery. On one occasion this led to much hilarity as the players had stuffed the liches phylactery (his femur) into a bag of holding and pretty much forgotten about it until they opened the bag several months later and pulled out a fully formed and rather angry lich. Luckily for them without his items and access to his spellbooks while in the bag he wasn't nearly as hard to kill the second time round.
This sort of thing is why every lich should know teleport AND take the spell mastery feat so they can prepare it without books. It has only a verbal component, so he need not worry about not having the right material component. He just has to wait until he's reformed, grab the phylactery and then teleport to whatever bolt-hole he's prepared (and any lich worth his undeath would have prepared such a bolt-hole).
I'm playing a wizard in a non-realms game at the moment and he's working on this (not the lich part, the escape part). At 9th level, he'll be learning Teleport as one of his spells and taking Spell Mastery for his feat. Putting this together with several other spells carefully selected for needing no material components (or, in a couple of cases, the sort of components that would be plentiful in your average dungeon) and the fact that he's alrady taken Silent Spell and Still Spell, he's got quite an arcane "escape kit". If the DM ever tries that "you've been captured, imprisoned, deprived of your spellbooks, tied up, gagged and are now at the mercy of my plot" thing on me, he's going to have to work at it. Sadly, I'm still vulnerable to being deprived of rest and have not found a way around that yet.
The best part is that it's perfectly in character. Early on, the party got caught in a magical trap and then, while in the trap, faced a foe that blinded my character. He was completely deprived of all his magic (because he couldn't see to memorize anything) for a few days while the rest of the party did most of the work getting them out of the trap. He became paranoid about something like this happening again and immediately set to work on making sure he is never so helpless again. |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 10:54:28
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Guys!!!
A lich cannot create a body out of thin air! According to various novels and Scource books (mainly from the Ravenloft Setting, but also from the "Cult of the Dragon") a lich needs a body close to his phylactery to inhabit after his destruction.
If he has bidden his phylactery too well and forgot to place any bodies near it, he is effectively trapped in his phylactery (the Reason why Sammaster was gone from the Realms for such a long time!)
Another thing that would work is, that the Party carries around the phylactery of the lich (maybe not even knowing, that they are carrying the phylactery. As soon as the phylactery comes close enough to a body, the lich can inhabit it.
Note also: According to the Van Richten's Guide to Liches, a Lich needs some time to regain his power. Right after inhabiting a new body, he is effectively powerless, but his spell casting abilities are regained very quickly! |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 17:01:09
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The main source on Realms liches is REF5 Lords of Darkness, which says on p. 75:quote:
Each time a lich's life force flees to its phylactery, it loses a level. A 10th level lich will be destroyed by a return to its phylactery, its soul going on to the Lower Planes as the phylactery crumbles. A lich will always try to teleport (if the spell is available) his body back to the phylactery before being reduced to zero hit points. (At 0 hit points or less, a lich is destroyed forever.) The life force can get back to the phylactery (nstoppable and unattackable on the way) without the body, but must then attempt to possess a nearby corpse all over again, develop a wightish body, and search for his lich body again. A lich's body will never decay (due to the Ninemen spell). If it is disintegrated, the wightish lichnee will need a wish75 spell to reform it.
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Edited by - Faraer on 17 Feb 2007 17:01:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 17:32:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Iliphar1
Another thing that would work is, that the Party carries around the phylactery of the lich (maybe not even knowing, that they are carrying the phylactery. As soon as the phylactery comes close enough to a body, the lich can inhabit it.
I don't recall where I first saw the idea, but an evil idea I have seen is to have a lich use a powerful magical sword as its phylactery, maybe with a false phylactery for the PCs to find. They kill the lich, destroy the false phylactery, loot its lair -- and carry off its true phylactery with them when they go, giving the lich an opportunity to pop back up and bother them later.  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 17:46:35
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You know, to really complete this trap, you could have the lich have a gem in a cage with an actual soul in it, in an area with several mundane and magical traps. The soul could be some unfortunate apprentice that he selected for just such a purpose. This serves as the "false pylactery" so long as the PCs don't find it before they find the lich (i.e. if the lich is still animating its body, why is there soul in the gem?).
THEN you have some powerful magic item that is the actual phylactery . . . hm . . . if it were an ancient elf lich, you could make the phylactery a kiira, which would be a spellbook on top of everything else . .
argh . . . must quit plotting . . . |
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Weiser_Cain
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 08:14:55
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| I think I had something about embedding it in the chest of an innocent child... |
I'm always the Wizard! |
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A Lich's Phylactery
