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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 05:50:51
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With my Menzoberranzan campaign going on much longer and alot better than I thought. It was only supposed to be a one shot as we have never really played an all evil group before. I didn't think they would have the maturity to seriously play evil characters. I expected them all to play chaotic stupid characters and automatically stab each other in the back. They pleasantly surprised me with their mature play.
They now have asked me to dm a new campaign as their characters are growing higher in level and the action is slowing down more. As much of the play is more of a political and roleplaying affair (which they are enjoying). The thing is they want to play another evil campaign. The thing is I am kinda burned out on coming up with campaign ideas for the darker side of Faerun.
I would rather dm a heoric type campaign but they seem pretty determined to keep playing villanous characters. So my questions are what should I do? Try to convince them to play the campaign I would rather run. Or just give in and try to see the silver lining that they can play evil characters with flair and intelligence. Has anyone had a similiar experience before? If so what did you do about it?
Any suggestions would be helpful.
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Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4703 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 06:47:05
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Well as a DM the game needs ro be fun for you as well. Without knowning the players or the characters it becomes hard to answer your needs. Evil clearly can work together for a time for a greate goal. I see two quik options:
Offer the PCs oposing goals, not everyone can lead a single House, they might start killing each other.
Offer them light a new path, that they players might embrace.
You can do either or both depending on what NPCs and world events occur. You can force world changes, but you can not directly change how players want to play their PCs.
You want them to be heros the best advice I can offer is give them a greater Evil to fight with some aid from the "Light" that might pull the PCs and the players to be more willing to stay heros after dealing with the current problem.
Details do help as to how Evil the PCs are and the play your players appear to enjoy. Evil and Chaotic offers we can do anything we want play (if we live though it). You also might try advising players there PCs might not be as Evil as they thick. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 22:19:20
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Bladedancer, is this new campaign going to be set in Menzoberranzan, or elsewhere?
I know from experience that it is *very* hard to play heroic or non-evil characters in a Drow society. On the other hand, it was very challenging and enjoyable. Our DM used a very good campaign hook on our non-evil (mostly neutral) drow characters - the first part consisted of introducing our characters all manners of atrocities and injustice in the society, beginning with Sorcere and Melee-Magthere (1st level) and by the time we had reached 5th level, one of the characters secretly joined Bregan D'aerthe. Unknowingly, we worked for Jarlaxle, until some sessions later the rest of us joined the organization, too. Then, out of a blue, one of our associates (NPC priest of Vhaeraun) told us of a rebel movement, which was led by the priesthoods of Vhaeraun and Malyk. Soon enough, we joined this Lil'Abbanal (The Alliance) and finally felt we had an *impact* on the society.
Another option might be to run it for evil characters, but stress the importance of *trust* in *each other*. They might be members of the same House, or perhaps all belong to Bregan D'aerthe? Maybe they are survivors of a fallen House, rescued by a non-evil individual - a Drow archmage (Jalynfein? Some foe of Gromph now in hiding? An enemy of their enemy House?) or a priest of Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur? Or you could simply emphasize the power that females hold over males... our DM roleplayed this well, punishing us for every lie/semi-truth or even carelessly worded phrases ("You *DARE* to speak like that to a priestess of Lolth? Perhaps you need a whipping... on your knees, MALE!" or "I sense that you are hiding something from your Matron Mother! Speak now the truth, or I shall rip your tongue out!" etc.)
The trick is to offer them a *common* enemy that they strive against, and to stress the importance that they have only one another in the cruel world. If you can convey this feeling to them, it should work. You might also remind them that Evil beings might have feelings and friends, too (in case they think that Evil equals "a cold-hearted and back-stabbing psychopath" ;)
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 04:54:35
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Just to make things more clear the campaign we are currently running ia one based out of Menzoberranzan. What my players want is to start another one up and play the new one like every other week
Well Astegerion I haven't decided on where we will run the new campaign. If we decide to with another evil campaign they have showed interest in either running a fey'ri group (in my campaigns the reclamation of Myth Drannor will not happen) or a group of Shadovar.
For the heroic one I am open for ideas but I was thinking of setting it in the Shining South with the characters serving a benign Halruan Elder |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 12:27:41
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My apologies - I misunderstood that you're also going to run this new campaign in Menzoberranzan. 
Hmmm... I'd suggest that you talk with players about the campaign. Tell them what you'd wish of this campaign, and ask them whether they still want to play evil characters or not. Tell them that you would want run a heroic campaign for non-evil characters. Listen to their wishes, and try to find a compromise. It is essential that both you and your players are both satisfied, or there will be conflicts of interests.
I prefer to talk about the upcoming campaign before any characters are created. Or, sometimes, I do not prepare anything until all the characters are created, because then I can build the campaign around these characters and issues or matter they care about.
Some DMs prefer complete secrecy about the nature and issues in the new campaign. During character creation they have a certain image about what classes and archetypes are needed, and he/she tries to steer players towards that image ("You know, I really think that three wizards in this campaign is a bad idea. I want to see at least two clerics or fighters. And you, Mike, cannot create a rogue - that's out of the question...").
Let's say that my new campaign will involve a major war in the Dalelands, and I want to see the characters involved in some frontline action, hacking and slashing at a tidal wave of Zhents and their mercenaries. What to do if my players insist on creating pacifist or selfish characters, and keep asking me why I can't accept that? I do not reveal any major or specific details, but I might tell them that I want heroic and unselfish characters, who would not be afraid of even large-scale battles. I might tell them that a wizard/sorcerer and a cleric might be good ideas for characters, and also some strong warrior-types.
I might even reveal something about a looming threat, and whispers of war or some other doom on the horizon (even before they characters discover clues of this in the campaign). If they do not share my "vision" of the campaign, I'd be better off writing a new one than trying to "force-feed" it to them.
I think all of your potential ideas are very interesting and challenging. Evil campaigns work, if the characters share a common goal. I also think that what I wrote about trust applies - give them reasons to act as a group of allies, making sacrifices for each other. That way, you'll probably have heroic elements in your campaign. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 13:07:31
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Tough call. As has been pointed out, it has to be fun for you too. If you're sure you won't enjoy running two evil campaigns simultaneously, they need to know that.
Your players aren't getting enough fill of evil play in Menzo? I'd let them know that running two evil campaigns risks burnning the DM out on that type of story material, and to keep the DM in good spirits ask them if would they consider balancing the Menzo campaign with a more neutral type of adventure set in the Shining South.
The second adventure based out of Halruaa can be more of the Swords and Sorcery variety than the epic/heroic/save-the-world type of fare. Swords and Sorcery genre characters tend to be oriented toward making a living within their world. And those smaller quests can serve to articulate the setting. Anyway, they can be mostly non-evil, and not have to save the world. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 08 Apr 2007 19:25:23 |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 04:51:13
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Thanks for the advice folks. My players have agreed to play a more heroic campaign They have also agreed to my idea of a Shining South based campaign starting out a group of adventures working for a crazy but benign Halruaan Arch-Mage. Anyone have any ideas for a first mission? I think they will start around 5th level or so.
Thanks Again |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Darkness or Light a DM's Quandry
