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Ganthus
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 06:57:37
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Hello,
I have spent hours and hours searching for a good listing of Cormyr's Rulers, and Court Wizards. I cross referenced the available timelines I could find on-line and in my FR 3.0 book, and tried to piece together dates from the Cormyr Trilogy. What I am wondering is if anyone here can point me in the direction of a definitive listing of:
A: A List of Cormyr's Rulers with dates (DR)
B: A list of Cormyr's Court Wizards with dates (DR)
Also in Cormyr: A Novel I see Amedahast talking with Azoun I, and he tells her that she will be his court wizard, but later in the book it intimates that she becomes court wizard to Duar preceding the loss of the Kingdom to pirates. Is this a mistake or a misinterpretation on my part?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 07:08:06
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A complete listing of Cormyr's rulers [with ALL the dates they've ruled] has never been properly compiled, simply because not all the dates and such have been fully listed in official Realmslore.
What follow is partial listing of Cormyr's lineage with some of the more important dates referenced -
"26 to ??? Faerlthann
Imlon "the Touched"
Bryndar
Eskrius
Rhiiman "the Glorious"
Embrus "the Old"
Kaspler "the Learned"
Imbre
Sacrast
Daravvan
Dorglor
Embrold
Irbruin
Moriann
Tharyann "the Elder"
??? to 242 Boldovar "the Mad"
242 to 245 Iltharl "the Insufficient"
245 to ??? Gantharla*
Roderin "the Bastard"
Thargreve "the Lesser"
Holordrym
Belereve
Thargram
Besmra*
Torst
Gordroun
Keldroun
Berost "the Bold"
Gorann
Edrae "the Doomed Babe"
Ulbaeram
Silbran
Raerboth
Baerildo
Belmuth "the Bastard"
Sargrannon
Ortolar
Imbrus
Artreth
Zoumdan
Imbrus II
Meurthe "Mad Meurthe"*
Kasplara*
Jasl "the Royal Jester"
Arathra "the Little Spider"*
Barander "the Tortured King", "the Scarred Advisor"
Thargreve "the Greater", "the Peacebringer"
Jarissra*
Andilber "the Unfortunate"
c 376 to at least 389 Anglond (his son, Azoun, was still Crown Prince in
389; see Sea of Fallen Stars)
Azoun I "the Crown Prince of Battles"
From before 429 to 480 Duar "Longyears"
Galaghard I
Galaghard II "Father of the Dark Princes"
c 629 Draxius "the Neverdying"
Bryntarth I
c 900 Galaghard III
Rhiigard "the Mourning King" [Rhigaerd I]
Bryntarth II
c 1018 Arangor
Azoun II
Proster
Baerovus
Palaghard I
1187 to 1210 Pryntaler
1210 to 1227 Dhalmass
1227 to 1261 Palaghard II
1261 to 1277 Azoun III (note that the 1st Edition Boxed Set has Azoun III
dying in 1275 DR, but the later Cormyr: A Novel has him dying in 1277, "nine years ago" in Chapter 28)
1277 to 1286 Salember "the Rebel Prince" (remember, this one was a regent
that styled himself a king)
(1277 on) 1286 to 1336 Rhigaerd II [He had to wrest the throne from his uncle]
1336 to 1371 Azoun IV
Princess Alusair Nacacia Obarskyr, the Steel Regent of Cormyr
1371 to present Azoun V"
Additional thoughts from Garen "Brian Cortijo" Thal -
"The dates listed are correct (I should know; that's from one of my posts on the REALMS-L; I should also note that the asterisks (*) are Cormyr's ruling queens, and the rest kings).
Those are the dates that can be reliably pulled from Cormyr: A Novel and the various relevent Dragon Magazine articles. There are those of us who continuously--some would say obsessively--update our personal lists to make them mesh properly, so much so that even an off-hand remark about a slaying or a quotation is enough to make us triple check these numbers, but until we get the Royal Lineage out and in print, there's only so much that can be said."
And -
"The dates are left out of the above to keep from revealing too many secrets about the royal line until the time is right, but observant readers, willing to cross-reference several sources, will note that some reigns will be, simply by necessity, far longer than others.
I will note that Cormyr is unique among the Realms in that the House Obarskyr is its sole ruling dynasty. There are interregnums, certainly, but every royal of Cormyr has been part of the Obarskyr family, and Azoun V can trace a direct descent, in 36 generations (some whisper "34," very quietly) back to Faerlthann First-King. We have this not in Tethyr, nor in Impiltur, nor anywhere else where kings have ruled for over a thousand years and cannot claim to have gods sitting in thrones beside them (*cough*Mulhorand*cough*)."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 Apr 2007 07:11:52 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 07:10:34
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I'll also point out that we may be learning more about human royal lineages in Faerūn, at a later date.
[Provided Krash can get his Impiltur-notes in order -- ::hint, hint::] 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ganthus
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 07:22:34
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I thank you for you prompt (nearly instant) replies. The following site:
http://www.wzrd.com/home/thyle/timehome.htm
Supplied me with a goodly portion of what you posted. Thanks a ton for filling gaps. Do you have something similar in regards to the Court Wizards? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 08:30:55
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I don't immediately recall any particularly 'official' listing of ALL the Court Wizards [along with the dates].
'Tis likely that Garen Thal, George Krashos, and/or Ed himself, all have something more to add about a potential listing of what Court Wizards have been referenced in the Realmslore so far.
I do have a partial listing, but it's nowhere near complete, nor is it in a format that would make it easy to post here.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 Apr 2007 08:33:30 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 13:51:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't immediately recall any particularly 'official' listing of ALL the Court Wizards [along with the dates].
'Tis likely that Garen Thal, George Krashos, and/or Ed himself, all have something more to add about a potential listing of what Court Wizards have been referenced in the Realmslore so far.
I do have a partial listing, but it's nowhere near complete, nor is it in a format that would make it easy to post here.
Cormyr: A Novel provides a fairly complete succession of Royal Magicians in Cormyr. Although it doesn't give exact dates of change in power, it does show all the Mages Royal, in order, with most dealing with their predecessors in some way.
There is really only one dates missing from the succession below: the change from Thanderahast to Jorunhast. All the other information is readily available in the novel or from other official sources. While I can't reveal the exact date or circumstances of Jorunhast's ascension to his position, careful reading of C:AN will narrow the date down to somewhere between 1018DR (where he is apprentice to Thanderahast) and 1188DR (when he is already Mage Royal for some time). More detail, however, I can't provide.
Baerauble Etharr (26DR to 429DR)
Amedahast (429DR to 629DR)
Thanderahast (629DR to ???)
Jorunhast the Kingslayer (??? to 1286DR)
-Interregnum- [1286DR to 1306DR]
Vangerdahast Aiulvana (1306DR to 1371DR)
Caladnei (1371DR to ---) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37013 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 21:18:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Azoun V can trace a direct descent, in 36 generations (some whisper "34," very quietly) back to Faerlthann First-King.
Okay, now this is something that escaped my notice, earlier... Why does that discrepancy exist? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 22:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, now this is something that escaped my notice, earlier... Why does that discrepancy exist?
Unfortunately, unless a novel or game product containing the relevant information precedes it, the Royal Lineage of Cormyr (when it finally sees the light of day) is the only place where that can be revealed. Otherwise, its highly out of context, and a horrible spoiling of many royal secrets. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 00:16:53
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Hello Garen. 
Is it possible to get numbers on the following? How many ruling Queens Cormyr has had and how many royals took over as children? Or can that too only be revealed when the full lineage gets published? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6692 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 00:42:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganthus
Hello,
What I am wondering is if anyone here can point me in the direction of a definitive listing of:
A: A List of Cormyr's Rulers with dates (DR)
B: A list of Cormyr's Court Wizards with dates (DR)
My hard drive.
Seriously, an in-depth look at the monarchs of Cormyr exists but is currently in the hands of WotC and hence NDA.
If you are just after dates of when monarchs reigned then pop back after GEN-CON in August.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 00:44:10
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If I wanted to be sly like George I'd pop in here and say something cryptic like a NDA prevents me from saying anything about a complete lineage of Cormyr's rulers, but then again everyone knows what I'm working on so it's best if I just didn't say anything at all.
EDIT: Damn George beat me to it! |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
Edited by - Brian R. James on 10 Apr 2007 00:45:13 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 04:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Hello Garen.
Is it possible to get numbers on the following? How many ruling Queens Cormyr has had and how many royals took over as children? Or can that too only be revealed when the full lineage gets published?
There have been six queens regnant in Cormyr's history: Gantharla, Besmra, Meurthe, Kasplara, Arathra and Jarissra. They are marked on the above-quoted list (which was, aptly enough, one I posted to the REALMS-L some time back).
The "how many royals took over as children" question depends entirely on what you mean by "children" and "took over." All of Cormyr's queens were no less than fifteen when they assumed the throne, and thus (according to royal tradition, custom, and law) permitted to rule in their own rights without regents. The kings, however, have ranged in age from less than a year to pre-adolescents and young teens, with varying degrees of independence, advice and counsel.
Recall the passage from Cormyr: A Novel:quote:
Azoun recited the names of the nineteen young kings and seven warrior queens, starting with Gantharla, and of the four recognized illegitimate kings.
How Azoun and Vangerdahast defined "young," I can't say. I will say that the 'seven warrior queens' comes from the addition of Enchara, Queen of Esparin, to the group of Cormyr's six queens regnant--all of whom, despite their personal reputations, are 'warrior-queens' by virtue of being Obarskyrs.
Hope this helps. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2007 : 00:43:30
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| Ah, many thanks Garen. Helps a fair bit. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2008 : 06:52:17
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 Yeah, more thread necromancy from me.  Shocking, I know.
Anyway, this thread popped up in my search and, while it's largely obsolete thanks to the GHotR, at least as far as the succession of the Crown is concerned, there is information regarding the Court Wizard position. No, there's no Court Wizard succession chart, but you can figure out the dates easily enough; included below:
Royal Mages of Cormyr
Baerauble Etharr (26DR to 429DR)
Amedahast (429DR to 629DR)
Thanderahast (629DR to 1076DR)
Jorunhast the Kingslayer (1076DR to 1286DR)
Vangerdahast (1286DR to present)
(This list is a bit old, hence no mention of Caladnei... but in my campaign, Vangey is still running the show after 1400DR. He's 25 years into training his son and daughter to succeed him, so he might be thinking about retirement, but not anytime soon. I'd tell you who the mother of his children is, but I'm far too easily frustrated by NDAs against me, so I have to have my own secrets; NDA!  )
On which note:
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
<snip>Seriously, an in-depth look at the monarchs of Cormyr exists but is currently in the hands of WotC and hence NDA.</snip>
Yep, all the juicy Realmslore is locked up tight, safely away from being applicable... but if there's an NDA, then it should be made available in some form at some point, right? Hello? Anyone?  Save your electronic breath, folks. I've already asked Brian ("Garen Thal") Cortijo about this one on his own thread, and public demand appears to be the best way to get the Obarskyr dynastic information made available. Since there probably aren't all that many genealogists (professional or otherwise) gaming in the Realms, I suspect that this information will stay under Wizards' pointy hats until Asmodeus and Mephistopheles need new hockey gear. (After all, it is H-E-*double* hockey sticks...) [Edit: Yes, this is in my sig now; I was amused by it and decided that, like any good joke, it should be beaten to death... at least until the Cormyr lineage is released in its entirety to all who are interested in it.]
Also, and back on topic: Wooly has compiled his own list in this post here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10544. I determined the [*non-canon*] date for the succession of Jorunhast in my list more or less randomly, and Wooly includes the succession of Caladnei in his list. You'll also note that there is no interregnum in my list; this was a plot device in my last campaign as sole DM. Briefly, time travel is fun if you limit it strictly enough in a causal sense; yes, you can change the past as long as the past you're changing has no bearing on your own existence. All of the PCs were from outside Cormyr and none of their families had lived in Cormyr for over six generations, so no problem. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 09 Nov 2008 08:32:14 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 22:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Yeah, more thread necromancy from me.
The great thing about scrolls, books, messageboard threads -- extrasomatic knowledge in general -- is that they don't die. They exist, in a real sense, outside of time.
I've never seen an explanation of why some people think posting to old threads is bad. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 23:53:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Yeah, more thread necromancy from me.
The great thing about scrolls, books, messageboard threads -- extrasomatic knowledge in general -- is that they don't die. They exist, in a real sense, outside of time.
I've never seen an explanation of why some people think posting to old threads is bad.
I'm inclined to agree.
The beneficial aspects of scroll necromancy mean that any new lore or discussions pertaining to a particular past scroll can be related to older posts and/or thoughts from scribes -- and all with the intent of exploring new information that's never been connected with previous discussions before. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37013 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 01:26:35
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And sometimes it's interesting to look back on comments that were made before the release of pertinent info.
Also, I've sometimes looked back at the prior posts on the resurrected threads just to see again posts by people that are no longer active here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 19:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And sometimes it's interesting to look back on comments that were made before the release of pertinent info.
<snip>
That's the part I like about it; going back to unanswered ("NDA") questions and getting answers, on the rare occasion that an NDA actually expires. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 23:25:27
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Casts Raise Scroll.
Thanks go to Markus for linking to it on the Ask Ed scroll. This one was an enjoyable read. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 05 Mar 2012 23:26:10 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 23:53:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Casts Raise Scroll.
Thanks go to Markus for linking to it on the Ask Ed scroll. This one was an enjoyable read.
I thought so too... thanks for refreshing it.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And sometimes it's interesting to look back on comments that were made before the release of pertinent info.
<snip>
That's the part I like about it; going back to unanswered ("NDA") questions and getting answers, on the rare occasion that an NDA actually expires.
And on this note, I recently posted regarding such a thing in Ed's scroll; a question Ed answered back in 2005 (I think) was filled with "NDA" in the reply, but (as with this thread regarding Cormyr's rulers) those NDA'd topics were nullified by the Cormyr succession printed in the GHotR. Now, what we need is an expanded GHotR with all events that have ever been given a date in canon Realmslore (yes, including the 1385 and later stuff, for better or for worse) and (of course) the complete Cormyr lineage, in all its glory. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 23:22:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Now, what we need is an expanded GHotR...
I'll settle for a Grand History of Cormyr.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 14:40:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Now, what we need is an expanded GHotR...
I'll settle for a Grand History of Cormyr.
If only, sir. If only.
Maybe someone should suggest to Wizards that it would make a nice DDI article. It should only take 80 pages or so to do it right... |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 16:32:48
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I'll have to do just that, then.
I have to say what I'd look forward to most would be maps of the Cormyr region, starting with the founding of Cormyr and proceeding every three of four centuries.
Especially those showing the locations of other little would be kingdoms like those mentioned in the Volo articles on the lost treasures of Cormyr from Dragon Magazine a decade ago.
Esparrin too.
If they could squeeze in information on the nearby Goblin kingdom (Hulundath? Hulundim) all the better. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 07 Mar 2012 16:59:22 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:21:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Now, what we need is an expanded GHotR...
I'll settle for a Grand History of Cormyr.
If only, sir. If only.
Maybe someone should suggest to Wizards that it would make a nice DDI article. It should only take 80 pages or so to do it right...
drool... but that's not a DDI article. That's a product on its own... release it on PDF through DriveThruRPG with print-on-demand available. I realize that POD is more expensive, but I'd be willing to pay the additional cost for a 99%-lore Cormyr sourcebook. History, complete Lineage, the workings of the realm (fold in the recent DDI articles in their appropriate sections)... yes... it could become the 160-page hardcover we should have gotten in 3.5...
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I'll have to do just that, then.
I have to say what I'd look forward to most would be maps of the Cormyr region, starting with the founding of Cormyr and proceeding every three of four centuries.
Especially those showing the locations of other little would be kingdoms like those mentioned in the Volo articles on the lost treasures of Cormyr from Dragon Magazine a decade ago.
Esparrin too.
If they could squeeze in information on the nearby Goblin kingdom (Hulundath? Hulundim) all the better.
The goblins, the Stonelands, a bit on Grodd (if it still exists), and of course a detailed writeup on the ghazneths... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 21 Mar 2012 18:22:32 |
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Cormyr Specific Timeline?
