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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 21 May 2007 : 03:00:07
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That's it. It's official.
I am no longer supporting Forgotten Realms novels. I refuse to read any more of them until they quit writing these novels on such huge catastrophes. Leave those to the players of the game, not the authors. And, besides, at this rate Forgotten Realms novels will be no different than Dragonlance novels.
The Spellfire series was good. It was self-contained. The Archwizards trilogy was good, it brought a huge change but it ADDED, not took away from the Realms. The Drizzt Novels are self-contained, mostly. The Time of Troubles should be the only huge major catastrophe that has happened in the Realms for a long time.
Why does every Realms novel now have to have some dire, cataclysmic event? It's getting ridiculous and it's ruining my Realms campaign.
Henceforth, I am no longer reading anymore Realms novels. It sucks, too, because I really like some of the authors writing.
Anyone else feel this way?
Mod Edit: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
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Edited by - The Sage on 21 May 2007 16:17:00
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 04:05:15
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| Nope, but to each his own my friend. Additionally, there is no rule that YOUR campaign has to match the novels. Everyone here has a their own unique realms version floating around in their heads. Make it your own, read the novels for fun, especially since you indicated that you enjoyed reading several of the authors works. |
Edited by - scererar on 21 May 2007 04:07:59 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 04:07:48
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| Make that two nopes . . . I think that the Realms has one of the strongest lists of authors that its ever had right now and it would be a shame to miss out on what they can do. I understand your aprehension, but at the same time, I love the setting and a lot of the current crop of authors, so I'm in for the long haul. |
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Drew
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 07:06:58
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| Yup that would also be a nope... huge catastrophies makes for good reading... they bring change to the base world, most of the time they bring the "why is this year named 'year of the rogue dragons'" etc, etc... |
The noblest fate a man can endure is to place his body between the home he loves, and wars desolation. |
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Raelan
Acolyte
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 07:38:24
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I'd have to say I agree to an extent. What bothers me is when the novels address an existing threat from published lore and wipe it out, thus removing a series of adventures from the possibility of play if one follows cannon.
In contrast, those novels which introduce a new threat and remove it all in one fell swoop don't bother me much. They haven't reduced the possibilities for adventure in the Realms - in fact, the fallout from whatever events took place may have generated new ones.
EDIT: I was just going through the timeline thread, and a number of things leapt out at me - things that reduce the possibilities for adventure in the Realms in the long term. The three most glaring were:
* The destruction of Ched Nasad - a fully fleshed-out city of villains has been wiped off the face of Faerûn.
* The destruction of Sarya Dlardregeth and the majority of the Daemonfey - another threat removed by NPCs, thus reducing the possibilities for adventure.
* The cleansing of Myth Drannor - one of the prime adventuring locales of the Realms has now been tamed, and NOT BY PLAYERS. BY NPCS! They should've left Myth Drannor alone.
What really burns me is that the Last Mythal trilogy was a great read. If only it hadn't contained the above two events....
So again: novels that introduce a new threat, then destroy it: good. Novels that destroy an existing threat: bad. I might be able to live with novels that destroy an existing threat, but create a new one in turn to replace it, but that would be highly dependent on the particulars. |
"I am convinced that one of these days I will be able to run a regular game that doesn't fall apart due to scheduling conflicts. I am also convinced that, on this day, hell will freeze over." |
Edited by - Raelan on 21 May 2007 08:01:31 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5699 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 07:38:59
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Well met
I'm surprised to hear your views and reasons on this, Razz. I, like many others, believe this to be the strongest Realms novels and authors have ever been. We have some outstanding authors working on this product line - the best WotC to offer, IMO.
Regarding your campaign, events don't always have to affect you and for most inhabitants of the Realms, they would be none the wiser.
Have you read some of the latter trilogies of late, such as The Last Mythal, Year of Rogue Dragons, Erevis Cale trilogy, Scions of Arrabar, to name but a few? If it's self-contained novels you seek, how about The Fighters series etc.
As an aside, please bear the Candlekeep Code of Conduct in mind when giving your opinions. Whilst you may not be happy with FR novels, this should not be grounds for any attacks on authors. Feel free to provide constructive reasons why a novel didn't work for you, by all means. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 09:12:51
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Well, I have more or less stopped following newer Realms novels, but that is more a case of me not enjoying them much any longer. Same with Dragonlance. Many are better written than in the TSR days, but there is something that just isn't the same. The Realms feel different to me in the newer books. The exception to this is Ed which I continue to read. This is therefore a case more of subjective preference more than an estimate of the books qualities. In fact there is little modern fantasy that appeals to me at all. When it comes to changes, the fact is I don't care much anymore as my Realms go where I want and that's that so that factor does not bother me.
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Raelan
Acolyte
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 13:06:50
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| I'd have to agree that it just doesn't feel the same. There are a few whose books still match the same flavor, but they're few and far between; Ed, Elaine Cunningham (to an extent - any time she does anything involving Waterdeep), Salvatore (to an extent), and Steven Schend (Blackstaff was the most Realmsian book I've read in a long time). |
"I am convinced that one of these days I will be able to run a regular game that doesn't fall apart due to scheduling conflicts. I am also convinced that, on this day, hell will freeze over." |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 14:32:24
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Well, he's true in so far that quite a number of FR novels focus on nigh Realms-shaking events. While that is good in many ways - e.g. fleshing out things that would not gain that much space in sourcebooks, it also requires some sort of lore-book follow-up. People who do not read all novels would like to know, after a certain time, what has happened and what transpired for a certain place, people, or the setting as such. I mean, quite a number of folk which have appeared in the FRCS have, within a couple of years, been whiped from the surface of Faerûn, but no sourcebook - or online publication took that up. Worst example is still the War of the Spider Queen. It's about two years since WotSQ VI is out and we do not even know exactly when it ended, the Silence. Current plots and novels are actually running 2 years after the Silence. And neither the odd bit of information here there, and everywhere, nor the nigh diabolical treatment of the FR drow (culture, religion, history) in The Drow of the Underdark give much optimism on that front. And that was me thinking we're living an an age of internet, web-enhancements and website articles ... (Voicing my disappointment, rather than ranting.)
Obviously, the War of the Spider Queen rages on in the Lady Penitent series (9 novels set aside for all this ... well well, that's how many years of keeping the drow loyalists on the edge then?), but a few bits and pieces on the current situation within drow society would have helped, wouldn't it.
Ahem ... nonetheless, I like all the recent novels. Very much so, actually. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 21 May 2007 14:39:57 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 15:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
It's about two years since WotSQ VI is out and we do not even know exactly when it ended, the Silence.
We do actually, its in Eric's recent Daleland timeline in Dragon.
As for the topic of this thread, I'm choosing not to answer. :)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 16:08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
We do actually, its in Eric's recent Daleland timeline in Dragon.
And for those without the article [Eric's Volo's Guide in DRAGON #354], Lolth's Silence ends on Ches 28, 1373 DR.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 20:09:40
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Aw, crap... It appears both myself and another moderator simultaneously targeted a double-post by Malchor7. I nixed one duplicate, and the other mod simultaneously nixed the other one... For that, I apologize, Malchor7. We obviously need to come up with a better system for doing that...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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malchor7
Seeker
62 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 23:28:33
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And here I had such a great post all written, too!
No worries--the site's been giving me a bunch of trouble this morning.
Basically:
Perhaps I'm confused by the definition of "RSE." It's clearly not just "an event that changes the lore," as by that definition every event in the Realms is an RSE. I think the original post is decrying "RSEs" as "major events that bring about fundamental or otherwise huge shifts in the lore."
I also think of low-grade RSEs (I'd call Icewind Dale a low-grade RSE, as it alters some power structures in the North), mid-grade (the Cormyr trilogy, whose effects are really only contained within Cormyr and the surrounding areas; also the Rogue Dragons, which was sweeping in scale but the actual lingering consequences were not major) and high-grade RSEs (The Last Mythal trilogy, which is a fundamental change to the way the world works).
My opinion:
It seems that most novels billed as RSEs don't make that much difference. The Last Mythal, yes, but did the Rogue Dragons really have that much lasting impact? Not to spoil it, but it seems that the consequences to the Realms could be absorbed without too much alteration of point of view. Magic didn't start working differently, no new gods were raised into the heavens, etc.
How about War of the Spider Queen? What really happens to Lolth? Obviously, the story isn't done, but we don't see a fundamental shift in the way the drow work.
I think "Realms Shattering Events" don't always shatter the Realms. In fact, only a few seem to leave any major lingering cracks.
I suggest a revision of the concept of RSE--these novels are not ones that bring about disasterous consequences, but rather ones that are just VERY IMPORTANT to the Realms. They concern major players, who do major things. It's a question of scale--involving more areas, more characters, more people, than, say, a novel like "Master of Chains," which tells a neat and compact story in one especial region. Or even "Ghostwalker," which takes place in one small frontier town.
Other ideas:
Of course there are RSE-based trilogies and novels out there, but there's more that's going on in the Realms than the heavy hitters.
Out of the Fighters, Rogues, Priests, Wizards, Cities, the first Dungeons (and probably the next three), and the forthcoming Citadels, I count one RSE (Blackstaff) out of 28 novels. Also one of the best trilogies out there, Erevis Cale, isn't RSE either. Count's up to 32. Sembia wasn't really RSE area either. Knights of Myth Drannor. What does that make the count, around 42?
Stack that against the Rogue Dragons, Last Mythal, War of the Spider Queen, Twilight War. Return of the Archwizards. Blackstaff. 19 novels.
42 non RSEs vs. 19 RSEs. That's a 2:1 ratio, about.
Obviously, this is an abstraction, and neglects a whole bunch of other wonderful Realms novels that are out there. Nor does it take into account anything more recent than Shadowbred, so I'm not counting RLB's, Smedman's, and Reid's latest, as I don't know if they'd be counted RSEs or not. My best guess is that they are low-grade RSEs--stuff that will cause you to alter the lore in your game a little. Or, you could just ignore them, like someone mentioned earlier in the thread.
My point, however, is that the "all Realms novels are RSE novels" attitude isn't correct. I'd wager that half of the realms novels published today aren't RSE novels, or, at least, they aren't nearly as major or pivotal as others (like Last Mythal).
Another thing: The Realms are constantly changing. It's a living, breathing world in need of constant maintenance in order to stay interesting and attract more and more people.
Why shouldn't authors contribute? We don't ban sourcebooks and accuse them of messing with lore. They ARE the lore, and so are the novels. WotC would seem to exercise very tight control over developments in the Realms. So they choose to release lore in the form of narrative fiction--so what?
Also, from the perspective of a DM:
Major events like RSEs give lots of opportunity for designing adventures. Perhaps the PCs take the place of the heroes, or perhaps they work alongside them (removed for safety) to counter some threat that isn't glimpsed in the novel itself that, if left unchecked, would undo all the heroes' efforts or--worse--capitalize on the short-sighted NPCs and make things worse because of their victory (like the City of the Spider Queen adventure).
So. To finish:
If you dislike RSEs, stop reading RSEs. But to throw the Realms out entirely because you don't like the epic scale is to miss out on a lot of smaller-scale stories that are really, really awesome.
It's all about what kind of scale you want, and I think the Realms offers novels all over the spectrum.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 01:17:31
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Well, I shall add my voice to the chorus of those praising the quality of recent FR novels in terms of plot and story.
Although I do agree with Razz, that it´s all getting the frick out of hand with the sheer amount of events of great proportions (I would be careful to call those RSEs, though, agreeing with Malchor there.)
I also agree that "something is different", but for me a gigantic part of that "different" has to do with the "different" that 3.0/3.5/3.whatever introduced. Templates and prestige classes, etc. up the ying-yang (this is only according to my own tastes, so please, nobody feel in any way attacked), and many a hero or anti-hero that seems to have certain superhero-traits, to word it very strongly, and the sheer pace of those being hammered into the Realms and overthrowing Icons.Will any member of an adventuring party still be considered exotic in a year or two?
Yes, the FR-setting is evolving further, as are its characters and classes, and that is a good thing, but many things are moving at an extreme pace. As much as I loved the "Last Mythal"-trilogy, I would have expected even more epic in an elven reclaiming of Myth Drannor.(Should have made it at least six books, says my gut feeling...or maybe my wish for more stories from that particular arc by Mr.Baker*g*). And I really, really liked the Rogue Dragon trilogy, but the heros killing Sammaster was overkill for me. They find the cure, jeez, that is epic ennough.
That´s just two examples. Neither event disappointed in the way it was presented within the context of the story, and both events were very, very well written. I just felt that too much was happening too quick. The difference to some of the older trilogies is, that it took three novels to destroy an aspect of Chauntea and a manifestation of Bhaal ("Moonshae"), while it possibly only took the third of one book to drop two Drow Gods.
Makes me fear that Larloch might bite the bullet in a short story...*just kidding*
I, for one, love reading RSEs. Always have, always will. Same goes for rSEs(Region-Shaking-Events*g*). But I say award more space to Iconic characters/places/artifacts of Realmslore, before they are blown to Kingdom Come...they deserve it.
*prays for Szass Tam to "survive" the Thay-Trilogy* |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 01:39:25
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quote:
Originally posted by malchor7
It seems that most novels billed as RSEs don't make that much difference. The Last Mythal, yes, but did the Rogue Dragons really have that much lasting impact? Not to spoil it, but it seems that the consequences to the Realms could be absorbed without too much alteration of point of view. Magic didn't start working differently, no new gods were raised into the heavens, etc.
I agree, and I've said as much in a recent thread.
As for the topic, I really can see both sides here. On one hand, it *does* feel like these "major events" aren't spaced out enough, and there isn't that much room for the setting to "breathe" after one of these RSEs happen. And as Zanan implied, they often aren't even given a second thought after the fact--it's on to the next RSE without lingering on the effects on the previous one. So I can totally understand why it all seems rather thoughtless to some people. It also seems to imply--to me--that readers have short attention spans and aren't interested in seeing the setting grow slowly the way a garden grows, that we'd rather just move on to the Next Big Thing because the smaller, more personal stories in the Realms just aren't that interesting. Well, I would disagree with such a mentality. The Realms isn't a hot TV show where an "Oh my gosh!" moment has to occur in every episode to retain viewer interest.
However, I also agree with those who say that many of these authors are very talented and can spin great yarns. And yes, there are still non-RSE novels being written. If you like some of the authors currently writing for the setting, why sell yourself short and abstain from reading them? What fun is that? There's no rule saying you have to agree that events you don't like are true in YOUR Realms. Do as many people here do and ignore the events you don't like. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 May 2007 01:40:39 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 16:56:44
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"The Archwizards trilogy was good, it brought a huge change but it ADDED, not took away from the Realms. "
I agree with that criticism. I felt the death of Khelben Arunsun was pointless. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 16:58:08
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"* The cleansing of Myth Drannor - one of the prime adventuring locales of the Realms has now been tamed, and NOT BY PLAYERS. BY NPCS! They should've left Myth Drannor alone."
Agreed. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 17:18:36
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You know... One thing people seem to be overlooking about the whole Myth Drannor thing: we know it's settled about 5 years down the road -- in game time!
Just because of that novel, it doesn't mean that as soon as the last battle ended, all the buildings repaired themselves, the mythal went back to pristine condition, and every nastybad that was there immediately moved out.
And actually, unless someone can point out otherwise, do we even know that the entire city was reclaimed? For all we know, the elves could have walled off a smaller portion and are still working on cleansing the rest.
Though the city is right now in elven hands, it doesn't mean it's fully in their control yet. And with everything that has happened in Myth Drannor, unless there is a truly massive influx of good guys, it's going to take a lot more than five years to fully reclaim it.
So yeah, it's no longer open season in Myth Drannor. But there is nothing saying it's now a fully civilized burg and that there's no need for adventurers there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 21:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So yeah, it's no longer open season in Myth Drannor. But there is nothing saying it's now a fully civilized burg and that there's no need for adventurers there.
Good point - there are a lot of critters in Myth Drannor, many of whom are unlikely to go down without a fight. Not to mention whatever it is that's currently cooking in the Dales, as of Eric's recent timeline and the next 'Super Adventure'.
And I pretty much agree with Rino. I like both big sweeping things and self-contained stories, but I like there to be consequences and fallout from them. These things are rarely covered. I will say that I do think things have been coming on a bit thick and fast of late, though I suppose one could make the case that maybe bigger things have always been happening, just more 'off screen'.
There is also probably something in the 'feel' of the books, though as someone said, it's quite possibly due to the differences in the game systems, though really that shouldn't matter.
The quality of the work being currently produced, however, is not in doubt. It's good. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Drew
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 21:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Raelan
I'd have to say I agree to an extent. What bothers me is when the novels address an existing threat from published lore and wipe it out, thus removing a series of adventures from the possibility of play if one follows cannon.
In contrast, those novels which introduce a new threat and remove it all in one fell swoop don't bother me much. They haven't reduced the possibilities for adventure in the Realms - in fact, the fallout from whatever events took place may have generated new ones.
EDIT: I was just going through the timeline thread, and a number of things leapt out at me - things that reduce the possibilities for adventure in the Realms in the long term. The three most glaring were:
* The destruction of Ched Nasad - a fully fleshed-out city of villains has been wiped off the face of Faerûn.
* The destruction of Sarya Dlardregeth and the majority of the Daemonfey - another threat removed by NPCs, thus reducing the possibilities for adventure.
* The cleansing of Myth Drannor - one of the prime adventuring locales of the Realms has now been tamed, and NOT BY PLAYERS. BY NPCS! They should've left Myth Drannor alone.
What really burns me is that the Last Mythal trilogy was a great read. If only it hadn't contained the above two events....
So again: novels that introduce a new threat, then destroy it: good. Novels that destroy an existing threat: bad. I might be able to live with novels that destroy an existing threat, but create a new one in turn to replace it, but that would be highly dependent on the particulars.
Says who? A book... you are the DM... make it where the Elf crusade against Sara horribly fail and now more then anything need the PC's to do.
Ched Nassad fell, but that doesn't mean everyone died... now you have a homeless Drow army marching on X city, or it didn't fall at all... these are books, they are entertainment, use what you want and don't want... any group argue that look at them and say I am the DM, I make the history, you make the future!!! |
The noblest fate a man can endure is to place his body between the home he loves, and wars desolation. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 15:40:18
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quote:
Originally posted by malchor7
It seems that most novels billed as RSEs don't make that much difference. The Last Mythal, yes, but did the Rogue Dragons really have that much lasting impact? Not to spoil it, but it seems that the consequences to the Realms could be absorbed without too much alteration of point of view. Magic didn't start working differently, no new gods were raised into the heavens, etc.
How about War of the Spider Queen? What really happens to Lolth? Obviously, the story isn't done, but we don't see a fundamental shift in the way the drow work.
In the Year of Rogue Dragons event the mythal that caused the Rage was rendered useless, so that means no more draconian madness. That could have a HUGE impact on the dragons in the long run, and anything that has a huge impact on dragons should cause a huge impact on everything around them, because, you know, they are dragons.
As for the war of the spider queen, I'd say the Halisstra trilogy will definitely bring about some changes. "Prays that Lolth will croak or be humiliated." |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 23 May 2007 15:43:57 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 03:17:31
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I haven't quit, I just care less about the products begin spit out by WOTC these days.
For one I don't like that old characters can't seem to be revisited without a fight unless your name is RA Salvatore or Ed Greenwood. So what they're in out of print books? It's called REPRINT.
It annoys me more when new authors get to take character created from series and then spin off on them. Nothing against the authors, but considering WOTC printing record and attitudes about mismatching characters and series.. isn't that why the Harper series went away?... suddenly it's ok for that to happen for the new authors.
What further annoys me is that every character these days seems to be a featured race straight out of the newest supplement, most of these character while developed for the series end up being very hollow and ultimately disposable filler characters in events they seem to have no business being involved in... like the whole cast of Rage of the Dragons. They've all been abandoned.
My problem and annoyance isn't with the authors, it's with the continued poor editing and decision making by the people being paid to manage the product line.
In any case, I'd rather see more novels like Drizzt, Wulfgar, Arilyn, Danilo, etc. Books about characters and their adventures in the Realms, not books about events in the Realms that get forgotten by the time they're done or worse, remembered and then misused or referenced by the game designers.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 24 May 2007 03:19:42 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2007 : 11:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Why does every Realms novel now have to have some dire, cataclysmic event? It's getting ridiculous and it's ruining my Realms campaign.
Anyone else feel this way?
I certainly think you have a point. When all life as we know is threatened with violent eradication on a regular basis one can get rather blasé about it.
However, I don't think there's to much that can be done about it since with Faerun the purpose of many evil organisations is to seek drastic change. I don't hold the current authors at fault for keeping to the mandate set by WotC. They are tasked with writing novels that must strive to retain their current readership and yet also attract new readers.
After all, if we consider The Lord of the Rings as the best example of a fantasy novel then didn't the price of failure of Frodo's quest constitute a massive change? And 'The Quest' does seem to be the main premise used in writing fantasy novels.
Maybe a new style of novel writing needs to be introduced for FR. Personally, I find novel series like The Hunters Blades trilogy don't engage me so much. They're fine adventure romps but I would have preferred to have seen King Obould set up his orc kingdom and try and steer his kingdom to acceptability. In short, I'd like a book with a lot of politics and something that serves as a 'historical' document.
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Henceforth, I am no longer reading anymore Realms novels. It sucks, too, because I really like some of the authors writing.
Are you cutting of your nose to spite your face? There are some FR novels that I've read recently that I enjoyed as books in their own right but I didn't like the changes that were introduced. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2007 : 17:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
However, I don't think there's to much that can be done about it since with Faerun the purpose of many evil organisations is to seek drastic change.
Do you really think the RSEs are representative of the actions of Realms power groups, or emerge organically from the setting?quote:
After all, if we consider The Lord of the Rings as the best example of a fantasy novel then didn't the price of failure of Frodo's quest constitute a massive change?
Obviously, the model of an epoch-ending, world-spanning (eu)catastrophe which draws together the main threads of Tolkien's mythos and (to a great degree) creatively expends it can't be a model for an open-ended, multi-stranded shared world. Any amount of regrettable hack fantasy comes from abusing and misinterpreting The Lord of the Rings.quote:
And 'The Quest' does seem to be the main premise used in writing fantasy novels.
High fantasy novels. The problem is when the Realms RSEs train the readership to associate emotion and drama and import with large-scale externalities, which isn't sustainable for such an expansive publishing line.
Razz, if you want to encourage Wizards to publish the kind of books you want, the best things you can do are to make your case in a physical letter to Phil Athans, and to buy books like Swords of Eveningstar and Swords of Dragonfire. |
Edited by - Faraer on 29 May 2007 17:12:34 |
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Swiftblade
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 23:38:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So yeah, it's no longer open season in Myth Drannor. But there is nothing saying it's now a fully civilized burg and that there's no need for adventurers there.
Good point - there are a lot of critters in Myth Drannor, many of whom are unlikely to go down without a fight. Not to mention whatever it is that's currently cooking in the Dales, as of Eric's recent timeline and the next 'Super Adventure'.
And I pretty much agree with Rino. I like both big sweeping things and self-contained stories, but I like there to be consequences and fallout from them. These things are rarely covered. I will say that I do think things have been coming on a bit thick and fast of late, though I suppose one could make the case that maybe bigger things have always been happening, just more 'off screen'.
There is also probably something in the 'feel' of the books, though as someone said, it's quite possibly due to the differences in the game systems, though really that shouldn't matter.
The quality of the work being currently produced, however, is not in doubt. It's good.
I have to agree, as was mentioned in the Last Mythal, Elminster was not home due to something to do with the Srinshee, well, the last prologue states that the rule tower and the blade will not return until they have proven themselves worthy of it.
And as far as characters not getting used again, sometimes it is nice to see some new faces to add as NPC's. Although yes I agree that more books of old NPC's are nice, some new flavor helps spice things up. And just because a huge cataclysmic event takes place, as long as the world still exists and we are still all talking about it, there shouldn't be a ton of issues.
Frankly, I used to love Dragonlance 10x more then FR, but after the good read but disastrous effects of the Lost Souls trilogy, I lost interest. All my favorite characters were dead, the world was transformed. Some things require a change others don't.
As for why things have happened so much so recently in the Realms, I can only add my 2 cents that when we all play, unless you like to play in another era, everything is taking place relatively recently because if they write for the future, it will move our storylines ahead, and if they write too much in the past, it will change the face of the world as we see it today, which leaves all these RSE's too take place while we game, and we are the ones who get to choose how the events unfold affecting the Faerun we all know and love, with the consequences we choose. Though this is strictly speculation. |
"I told you not to touch it, now look what you have done!"
"Ancient ruins, sounds like Home."
"Sweet water and light laughter until we meet again." |
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Saime
Acolyte
Denmark
21 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 16:43:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Why does every Realms novel now have to have some dire, cataclysmic event? It's getting ridiculous and it's ruining my Realms campaign.
Henceforth, I am no longer reading anymore Realms novels. It sucks, too, because I really like some of the authors writing.
Anyone else feel this way?
Yes indeed. I have - almost - given up on Realms novels as well.
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wwwwwww
Learned Scribe
116 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 01:34:07
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It’s been quite some time since I’ve purchased a new FR book. I don’t know . . . I just don’t enjoy the new stuff very much. Although I found the amount of RSE events somewhat annoying, what has really turned me off is the sheer ridiculous amount of “new, unique” prestige classes that seem to been included in so many of the new releases. Other than the constant standby authors (Salvatore, Kemp, Cunningham, Greenwood), it seems like all the new authors are trying to make every other character a prestige class just for the sake of “coolness.” It really takes away from the classic Realms feel in general. Someone earlier mentioned the cast of YotRD series, which is a glaringly obvious superfluous amount of irregular heroes, but it doesn’t stop there. I remember getting lambasted by posters on this board when I expressed my wishes/regret that just one of the Fighters books would have been about a typical, no-frills fighter. Was it so wrong of me to have wanted that? Apparently so. The Realms doesn’t need eight billion bizarre prestige classes to survive. It’s the world itself, the characters and communities that exist within, that make it interesting.
This really isn’t a criticism of the authors’ abilities. For the most part, many of the new writers are excellent with prose, etc. Sometimes it’s just the story itself that lacks . . . especially when the focus falls on the “cool” prestige class and not the character development or the tale itself.
That being said, I’ve gone through some of my older, unread books. I’ve been reading Azure Bonds and enjoyed it. It’s amazing how vibrant and full of untapped mysterious potential FR seemed in those old books. I don’t get that feeling anymore. I wish I knew the reason why . . . |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 00:35:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know... One thing people seem to be overlooking about the whole Myth Drannor thing: we know it's settled about 5 years down the road -- in game time!
Just because of that novel, it doesn't mean that as soon as the last battle ended, all the buildings repaired themselves, the mythal went back to pristine condition, and every nastybad that was there immediately moved out.
And actually, unless someone can point out otherwise, do we even know that the entire city was reclaimed? For all we know, the elves could have walled off a smaller portion and are still working on cleansing the rest.
Though the city is right now in elven hands, it doesn't mean it's fully in their control yet. And with everything that has happened in Myth Drannor, unless there is a truly massive influx of good guys, it's going to take a lot more than five years to fully reclaim it.
So yeah, it's no longer open season in Myth Drannor. But there is nothing saying it's now a fully civilized burg and that there's no need for adventurers there.
I can see a whole campaign centered around adventurers being hired by the Lady Miritar to help clean out the still monster-haunted parts of both Myth Drannor and the Elven Court. Add in the Vhaeuraunian drow, the remnants of Sarya's army, the new wave of Zhentarim expansionism, etc., and you've got a whole lot shaking down in the Dales that will call for adventurers. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 00:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
I can see a whole campaign centered around adventurers being hired by the Lady Miritar...
Lady Miritar? Who would want to work for that non-character? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 00:06:03
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quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
I remember getting lambasted by posters on this board when I expressed my wishes/regret that just one of the Fighters books would have been about a typical, no-frills fighter. Was it so wrong of me to have wanted that? Apparently so.
There's nothing wrong with wanting that. And overall, I rather agree with you.
However, I DO try to look at stuff like prestige classes as being incidental mechanics, and not something that the characters in the story would be that aware of. On the other hand, I personally haven't kept up with the sheer amount of different PrCs that have been pumped out (don't have the desire to, either), so if the author uses something really exotic and doesn't explain it very well...I might be a little lost. But of course, any author should explain things well and not assume that all readers are up on D&D lore, much less the latest PrCs.
As for unusual characters...my main beef with them, overall, is that being "exotic" is very often a sign of Mary Sueish-ness (my character is soooo SPESHUL!), and I hate reading about Mary Sues. But of course, simply being "exotic" in itself doesn't necessarily make a character a Mary Sue, so I tend to be pretty tolerant about that, too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 14 Jun 2007 00:09:58 |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 08:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
That's it. It's official.
I am no longer supporting Forgotten Realms novels. I refuse to read any more of them until they quit writing these novels on such huge catastrophes. Leave those to the players of the game, not the authors. And, besides, at this rate Forgotten Realms novels will be no different than Dragonlance novels.
The Spellfire series was good. It was self-contained. The Archwizards trilogy was good, it brought a huge change but it ADDED, not took away from the Realms. The Drizzt Novels are self-contained, mostly. The Time of Troubles should be the only huge major catastrophe that has happened in the Realms for a long time.
Why does every Realms novel now have to have some dire, cataclysmic event? It's getting ridiculous and it's ruining my Realms campaign.
Henceforth, I am no longer reading anymore Realms novels. It sucks, too, because I really like some of the authors writing.
Anyone else feel this way?
Mod Edit: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
I understand all of you who wants to given up on Realms novels, because many of the FR novels is about huge events in FR and not the small adventure party and their quest for gold and glory.
But I am a huge Realm fan and I read the FR novels anyway.
I recently finished Unclean, and was positively surprised, of how god it was.
http://argonline.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1182
Don’t give up Razz 
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 14 Jun 2007 08:06:09 |
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Topic |
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Quitting Realms novels
