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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 16:27:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
So if you were trying to describe the Realms to a friend who had never read any Realms novels or even played D&D, what movies or other books would you compare it to? What movies or novels seem to mirror "the Realms feel" in your mind?
I tried making this list, and after the Richard Lester Musketeers films it gets more difficult: a lot of possibilities that mostly need qualification.
Bookswise, Fritz Leiber plus Roger Zelazny plus Guy Gavriel Kay would be a good triangulation.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Realms has something for everyone, and there really isn't any single single 'feel'.
There isn't a single precise narrow register. If there wasn't an envelope of feel, it wouldn't be an imaginary place, just a collection of information. |
Edited by - Faraer on 11 Jul 2007 16:30:44 |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 17:04:59
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While I have read some Realms books that totally lacked a Realms feel (for me), I really only recall reading two non-realms books that reminded me of the realms. One was the Paksenarrion trilogy (by Elizabeth Moon), but it was really only the first book that gave me the feeling. The other series was the Sword Dancer trilogy (by Jennifer Roberson). In part I think becuase both of these series were initially very light on their own lore in the early stages that I was able to merge them into parts of the realms as I read.
Few films have ever given me a feel of the realms with the possible exception of 'parts' of the movie Hawk the Slayer. (Yeah its cheesey, but it has its moments  )
Interestingly enough I find the wilderness environments in the game Oblivion to be very much how I imagine parts of the realms, much more so in fact than any of the recent FR video games. I spend more time wandering around, picking flowers and plants and exploring the environs and marvelling at the landscape, than actually going on the quests, and I imagine the realms would have much the same effect. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Edited by - Chyron on 11 Jul 2007 17:06:32 |
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Mark S.
Forgotten Realms Author
60 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 17:18:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Few films have ever given me a feel of the realms with the possible exception of 'parts' of the movie Hawk the Slayer. (Yeah its cheesey, but it has its moments )
HAWK THE SLAYER!!! Man, when I was 11 years old, that was the coolest movie in the world. Weekends were spent playing D&D while we watched HAWK THE SLAYER, CONAN THE BARBARIAN, and BEASTMASTER over and over and over again.
Do you watch LOST? Hawk is on that show. He's Jack's dad.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 07:33:45
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Eragon's backdrop reminds me of the Realms, but not the story so much.
I like the Dragon from Dragonheart, it had a Realms feel, but not so much the storyline (although I could see it) I mean, come on, Sean Connery has the perfect voice for a dragon. 
Some of the 'darker' parts of the LotR trilogy reminded me of both Thay and Zhentil keep, and the ancient statues in the woods definatley had a 'Realms Feel'.
Some of the magical aspects of the Indiana Jones movies had that realms feel (the ruins and dungeons, mostly, and the whole 'quest' thing).
The fantasy movie I think had the least 'realms Feel' was Dungeons and Dragons - I still get nauseous thinking about it.
As far as novels go, I can think of only two. The Mithgar novels by Dennis L. McKiernan, and the Belgariad. I like the world of the Belgariad a lot, and the group of adventurers going on a quest to save the kingdoms is very 'Realmesque'. The first series has Warrows, which are everything I imagine realms halflings to be. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 22:52:46
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This was my stab in July at itemizing which qualities I find essential to the Realms, and that I find valuable and distinctive about it:quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'as if real' worldbuilding
intertwined events (the Weave)
mix of picaresque sword and sorcery with high fantasy
open-hearted, fun, humanist, compassionate
egalitarian (local, not teleontological value)
librarian's love, lore and memory
proper names and language
roleplaying over rules
no cheap flashy cool
particular kind of immanent history
Rich Baker, Chris Perkins, James Wyatt and Chris Sims have now given us a pretty coherent, if incomplete, picture of their priorities. |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
161 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 15:41:36
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What gives a product the Realms feel?
Each product, be it a source book or moduel should in some way add to the world as a whole. FR has always been a sortof carried on story world that each DM, each player effects and adds to. A product should be set into FR, but still be open enough to leave the resulting history in the hands of the players. When I use a product be it source book or moduel, I want it to alter my world when I'm done with it. I want it to cast a lasting shadow.
That makes a realm product, realmsy...imo |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 16:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Rich Baker, Chris Perkins, James Wyatt and Chris Sims have now given us a pretty coherent, if incomplete, picture of their priorities.
Back in his blog that he had for Gen Con and the months after (up to when they first moved R&R Blogs over to Gleemax from the forums, and I don't know what happened to it now), Chris Perkins pretty much owned up being the main person who is responsible for the story changes implemented in the Realms, as he was Story Editor (or some similar position) at the time. Now, Rich and Chris Sims have claimed to think that the changes are "cool" in the past, but I am not sure if they are allowed to say if the really think so or they have to to make sure they do not get fired. James Wyatt has little (if anything) to do with the 4e Realms. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 17:09:44
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Here is a link to my Why Do You Love the Realms? thread on the WotC forums. I copied the link right before the server decided to crash again.  If this a good indication of how the who DDi/Gleemax thing is going to work in the future, I don't know how they are going to create it into a successful business feature. |
Edited by - Hawkins on 23 Jun 2008 17:10:50 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 23:04:42
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
James Wyatt has little (if anything) to do with the 4e Realms.
He's certainly involved according to his blog, which I was referring to.
To be clear, I'm not speculating about what any of these designers really feels or wants, just pointing to their stated aims and preferences, many of which are either opposed or unrelated to those of the Realms as created by Ed and published, in its better moments, till recently. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 00:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
James Wyatt has little (if anything) to do with the 4e Realms.
He's certainly involved according to his blog, which I was referring to.
To be clear, I'm not speculating about what any of these designers really feels or wants, just pointing to their stated aims and preferences, many of which are either opposed or unrelated to those of the Realms as created by Ed and published, in its better moments, till recently.
Hmmm...I wonder when they pulled him in...he was not initially involved last September, but that easily could have changed. I stopped reading the blogs when pretty much none of them posted for awhile (I think that that period was between December and March) and never started back up again. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 06:39:34
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I suspect that a better way to put it would be that a given product does not feel 'Greenwoodian.'
FR is a shared world, so of course it contains a lot of different styles and elements.
The core areas of Faerun (Heartlands, North) do have a common set of elements. It's more than just all those L and TH names. :) I think that the early Dragon Magazine FR articles, most notably Down to Earth Divinity, went a long way towards establishing that feeling. I’d describe it as such:
• Free will for gods and men; the future is not set in stone
• Lore, lore, and more lore
• A mix of imminent peril and cautious optimism
• Many of the same fantasy and folkloric influences as seen elsewhere in Gygax and Arneson’s game; but with a stronger ‘Fairy Tale Old England that Never Was’ feel. Some bits of Narnia, which only reinforces the ideas of cross world travel and a certain fairy tale sensibility. Maybe a bit less drawn from historical war gaming, pulp sci fi, and weird fiction, when compared with World of Greyhawk.
• Mercantile activity and gainful trades are not skimmed over, but are integral parts of the setting. Cities, traders, guilds, etc. get a lot of love.
• Canada! It’s mostly geographic, but I do see a bit of Canada reflected in the North. This might just be my interpretation.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 07:47:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt
Often, when people do not like a Forgotten Realms product, they will complain about how it lacks the “Realms Feel.”
What, to you, is the Realms Feel? What constitutes the elements of what makes the Realms the Realms? Why do you think these elements are important to the setting?
A sense of mystery and lost lore. I came into the Realms with the Old Grey Box, the Dark Walker books and the Crystal Shard trilogy. Back then there was this huuuuuuge world map put in front of you right out of the gate. But only two small books to fill it with stuff.
I remember taping those maps up on my bedroom wall and I would just stare at it trying to imagine what all the different places were like. It just really sparked my sense of wonder. When I read the novels I would just be dying to figure out where all the events were taking place on that huge map.
So in short, the Realms "Feel" is this feeling like there are things about this world that you don't know and the desire to uncover those unknowns. The problem is that when a world matures as the Realms has, it loses that sense of mystery and the unknown. I don't honestly believe that you can get it back so it has to adapt. I feel that the world is still huge and there is still a lot to be learned. But the mystery is almost gone. But what is left behind is this very diverse and interesting world where there are a million stories to be told.
Once we as fans come to accept that fact then maybe we can move forward in a more positive way. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 14:37:34
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| Cool. My answer in 2007 was the same as a couple of weeks ago when asked in Erik's recent scroll pertaining to the feel of the realms. |
Edited by - scererar on 23 Aug 2012 14:39:05 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 14:55:26
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What is "the Realms feel?" question is something my DM and I were discussing the other day. Mind, I personally have very little experience roleplaying outside the Realms, but I will echo my DM's word as I have no experience that would gainsay what he expressed.
To me, the Realms has depth and more multi-dimensional characters. In our experience, worlds like Greyhawk, for example, tend to have more "bwahahahah, I am eeeeevil" villans and dangers. Ravenloft is, by mere definition, just dark and twisted, and Dark Sun is more of a pure survival game. Dragonlance is alright, but it has a more... segregated feel than the Realms.
To us, the Realms is more inclusive. It also has a fleshed out history. It didn't merely design itself around dungeon crawl after dungeon crawl.
The Realms also has almost the right blend of technology and magic, whereas Eberron tends to be more steam-punk techy with magic mixed in.
Granted, all of this might simply be a failure on the other DMs we've played under. It might be that those DMs didn't properly portray Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, and that first impression tainted our opinions when we delved into the novels and sourcebooks of other worlds.
However, that's still our impression. To us, the Realms fits us. It's inclusive, varied enough culturally, technologically, and historically, and it feels like we're at home. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 15:56:49
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I think that WoG and FR are the two published D&D settings that most resemble one another. That's a good thing. It makes adapting materials from one setting to the other pretty easy.
Some things the two settings have in common:
Both settings make fairly heavy use of ancient fallen empires that used funky magic and have been buried by the sand.
Heck--magically created deserts. Both worlds have more than one of these. Are there any natural deserts at all, aside from cold deserts?
Fantastic ice features. The Great Glacier and the Land of Black Ice.
The usual suspects bad guy races copped from Tolkien and folklore
Drow
The usual human and demi human/Tolkienian allied races (although with a somewhat different spin in each setting)
Lankmhar style cities complete with thieves guilds, big sewers, assassins, wererats, and all that jazz
Low population density and lots of wilderness, especially as compared with Medieval Europe (which neither setting really resembles very much)
Fantasy polytheism with active, meddling, physically manifesting gods (more active in the FR in the AD&D 2E stuff, but not so in the 1E materials)
Both worlds have a number of famous, powerful, godlike NPCs. Eliminster and the Chosen? Sure, how about some quasi deities and hero-gods like Murlynd, Heward, etc. :)
Fairly high magic levels-- arguably higher in FR stuff, but I think close look at the WoG modules will show that WoG is not written as a low magic setting. It can be certainly be run that way, but it's not actually set up like that in the published format.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 16:28:40
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
I think that WoG and FR are the two published D&D settings that most resemble one another. That's a good thing. It makes adapting materials from one setting to the other pretty easy.
Agreed. The dungeons and adventures I have seen from Greyhawk do transition between worlds nicely. Moreover, both do have great similarities in history and geography, as you pointed out.
The big difference that I have experienced is the villans. In Greyhawk, villans tend to be more black and white, whereas the Realms presents more of a colorful, or at least shaded grey villan.
A recent example would be the villan from the Erevis Cale trilogy. I won't post details because I don't want to spoil anything if anyone reading hasn't read it yet, but essentially, he isn't the typical, "I want unlimited power" badguy mage.
Again, my impression of Greyhawk might just be my limited knowledge and, frankly, a bad flavor in my mouth due to a DM who had very one-dimensional villans. Yet, the villans are what seperated the Realms from Greyhawk to me. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 19:14:28
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Yeah, my answer from 2007 remains pretty-much the same. I didn't realize I was active here back then (probably just started getting active, when the WotC site 'got ugly').
I didn't bother to edit my posts for grammatical errors back then, either. 
The only thing I would add to that is that I was overly simplistic. The Realms has layers, and you can peel them back one at a time, and never get to the center. So I was talking just about the two most prominent layers, or even clusters of layers.
I guess that means Realms stories never have true endings - what they have is 'completions of current tasks', which often lead to multiple future tasks (which in turn branch out to even more 'roads' in life). I think its that branching and overlapping with other stories that makes the Realms feel so real - the characters are never acting in void.
At least, in the well-written stories they aren't. 'Connectivity' might be the Realms flavor. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 21:57:07
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I said this in Eric's recent scroll on the same subject: for me, the signature aspect of the Realms is that whatever you're doing and wherever you are, there's a sense that there's still a whole lot more out there. The Realms feel like a lot of different countries and cultures with their own unique histories.
I would agree that connectivity is fun and cool. But for me, even if they don't connect, just to be able to have the sense that there are a lot of "others" out there doing their own thing at the same time that you are doing yours says "Realms" to me.
I actually contrast the Realms against Middle-Earth, which has always given me the sense that Tolkien wanted everything to tie back in with the central story of the One Ring. The connectivity there seems almost contrived.
The real world has a lot of people doing their own things, who never interact with people who are radically different from them. They are insular, like that. The Realms,therefore, should similarly have people/races/nations which have rich histories, but are not necessarily readily relatable to one another.
The overall effect should be to make you feel small, in a big, big world. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 00:40:25
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I came in around time of troubles roughly. For me its two fold. One is the basic theme that is right in the title. Forgotten Realms.
It works on multilevels. Its the rich history of the realms with it amazing forgotten cultures and empires. Its searching ancient ruins of a forgotten people. Its that it still has the living cultures of empires long forgotten and dead on earth (Mulhorand isn't Egypt like, it is Egypt, reborn). Its that undering Forgotten Realms such as Netheril matter, because forgotten realms can live again.
I mean take Mulhorand its not this isolated empire that has no effect on the nations around it. Its history has forged some of these and influenced the evolution of countless nationstates, its culture, trade, bloodlines and ideals have spread throughout the realms. The same can be said of Calimshan and Netheril and others. This adds depth and wonder and a sense of legacy.
Two is the divine drama that seperates it from other settings and the rich religions and philosophies. Hate to say most, but not all of my favour realms books have been RSE's books or at least regional shaking books, with a few exceptions, but I also prefer epic play. I like power.
Its what keeps the Realms from becoming a kitchen sink setting like Golarian (although Golarian is growing on me, alot). |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 00:47:39
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I came in around time of troubles roughly. For me its two fold. One is the basic theme that is right in the title. Forgotten Realms.
It works on multilevels. Its the rich history of the realms with it amazing forgotten cultures and empires. Its searching ancient ruins of a forgotten people. Its that it still has the living cultures of empires long forgotten and dead on earth (Mulhorand isn't Egypt like, it is Egypt, reborn). Its that undering Forgotten Realms such as Netheril matter, because forgotten realms can live again.
I mean take Mulhorand its not this isolated empire that has no effect on the nations around it. Its history has forged some of these and influenced the evolution of countless nationstates, its culture, trade, bloodlines and ideals have spread throughout the realms. The same can be said of Calimshan and Netheril and others. This adds depth and wonder and a sense of legacy.
Two is the divine drama that seperates it from other settings and the rich religions and philosophies. Hate to say most, but not all of my favour realms books have been RSE's books or at least regional shaking books, with a few exceptions, but I also prefer epic play. I like power.
Its what keeps the Realms from becoming a kitchen sink setting like Golarian (although Golarian is growing on me, alot). |
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What is the Realms Feel?
