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 Ideal (3.5 Edition) Anti-Undead Party?
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
533 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2024 :  03:22:48  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This has been one idea I had for a 5-person party, preferably set outdoors against hordes of undead creatures (likely led by a powerful sentient undead creature like a Lich, a powerful Necromancer, or some such). Anyway, I was curious if this could work. Players could flesh them out as desired or needed.

1) Paladin of Kelemvor, likely a Knight of the Eternal Order. If the rules allow (I thought I heard there was some errata for the requirements), they might take levels in the Doomguide prestige class (but last I knew, this was technically a Specialty Priest PrC meant for Clerics of the Judge of the Damned).
2) Ranger of some staunch anti-undead nature deity. I was thinking either Chauntea, Osiris or Urogolan. Obviously has Undead as their most prominent Favored Enemy and probably wields a bludgeoning weapon with the Disruption and Ghost Touch properties.
3) Cleric of Lathander with the Sun and Healing domains.
4) Druid of a similar deity to the Ranger who focuses on spells that involve light or sunlight. Might end up taking levels in the Master of Radiance PrC from Libris Mortis.
5) Necromancer who focuses on anti-undead spells, namely those of the Necromancy school. In short, a "White Necromancer," as they're often referred to.

If this campaign may involve some form of stronghold or such for the BBEG, then maybe tack on a Rogue for the usual dungeoneering skills.

All in all, how does that sound?

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7981 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2024 :  14:33:24  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tell the players what they're up against. They have to kill the power sentient undead creature and hordes of undead creatures.

Let them know that certain gods (like Kelemvor, Lathander, etc) and certain classes (Paladins, Clerics, Rangers, etc) and Good alignments will get bonuses vs undead.

Maybe allow special access to certain spells, spheres, or granted powers for the duration of this task.

Maybe give the party some magical protections, weapons, and items which only certain classes can use.
These can be relevant and useful things like a Morningstar +1, +3 vs Undead or a Scroll of Protection vs Undead.
Or they can be somewhat relevant things like some pages from a necromancer's spellbook or some healing potions which have double potency for Good-aligned characters.
Or they can be basically irrelevant things like a magical cloak that always keeps a druid warm or a recipe for making poison (from local herbs and ingredients) that will damage a Ranger's "species enemy".

Maybe provide them allies, a church, free healing or other services if they follow a certain god.

The trick is to think about each of your players. What kinds of characters they play. What sorts of objectives they have for those characters. If you already know what they will find valuable then you can be assured they will make the best use of it.

Let your players themselves decide what they're going to play.
Maybe they'll want that weirdly specialized randomly improbable one-of-everything group like you designed.
Or maybe they'll want to play five paladins or five clerics or five half-orcs or whatever.
Maybe they'll make smart choices for this adventure. Maybe they'll make wrong choices.

You can and should steer their choices, make suggestions, place limits ... but you shouldn't make their choices for them. Never make their choices for them. Or at least, never let them think or know that you made their choices for them. They will not be as interested and invested in their characters if they don't believe they're the ones making their characters. Make the game they'll play but don't play their game for them.

[/Ayrik]
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
533 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2024 :  16:06:41  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Tell the players what they're up against. They have to kill the power sentient undead creature and hordes of undead creatures.

Let them know that certain gods (like Kelemvor, Lathander, etc) and certain classes (Paladins, Clerics, Rangers, etc) and Good alignments will get bonuses vs undead.

Maybe allow special access to certain spells, spheres, or granted powers for the duration of this task.

Maybe give the party some magical protections, weapons, and items which only certain classes can use.
These can be relevant and useful things like a Morningstar +1, +3 vs Undead or a Scroll of Protection vs Undead.
Or they can be somewhat relevant things like some pages from a necromancer's spellbook or some healing potions which have double potency for Good-aligned characters.
Or they can be basically irrelevant things like a magical cloak that always keeps a druid warm or a recipe for making poison (from local herbs and ingredients) that will damage a Ranger's "species enemy".

Maybe provide them allies, a church, free healing or other services if they follow a certain god.

The trick is to think about each of your players. What kinds of characters they play. What sorts of objectives they have for those characters. If you already know what they will find valuable then you can be assured they will make the best use of it.

Let your players themselves decide what they're going to play.
Maybe they'll want that weirdly specialized randomly improbable one-of-everything group like you designed.
Or maybe they'll want to play five paladins or five clerics or five half-orcs or whatever.
Maybe they'll make smart choices for this adventure. Maybe they'll make wrong choices.

You can and should steer their choices, make suggestions, place limits ... but you shouldn't make their choices for them. Never make their choices for them. Or at least, never let them think or know that you made their choices for them. They will not be as interested and invested in their characters if they don't believe they're the ones making their characters. Make the game they'll play but don't play their game for them.



I'm not currently running a campaign. I'm just wondering if those classes would really work for such.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4432 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2024 :  14:14:10  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Couple of things:
#1. The Paladin of Kelemvor is hard to make a Doomguide as you need Speak with Dead as a Spell, but it's a Cleric only spell. You'd need to homebrew an Initiate of Kelemvor feat and add that spell in (like I did) or take 5 levels of Cleric. So Paladin 5/ Cleric 5/ Doomguide 10. For the Eternal Order, I'd skip the first level substitution (corpsestrike is a terrible option) but definitely could get the other level ones. Also, should look at Pelor's Blessing (aka Paladin of Light) that augments your Smite vs undead at the cost of Divine Health.

#2 Ranger/Scout that has the Undead Favored enemy can Skirmish vs undead with the Swift Hunter feat.

#3 Funny enough, Lathander doesn't have access to the Healing domain. So you'd have to homebrew that or pick another (I like Renewal, personally).

#4 Druids are crazy good regardless of which options you choose as is the White Necromancer. Solid choices there.

Some options to consider: Hunter of the Dead prestige class fits in this game nicely. As does PCs who take Servant of the Fallen and grab Amaunator as their deity: Planning, Sun Domains for some persistent spell shenanigans and the Sunmaster PrC.


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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
533 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2024 :  04:35:33  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Couple of things:
#1. The Paladin of Kelemvor is hard to make a Doomguide as you need Speak with Dead as a Spell, but it's a Cleric only spell. You'd need to homebrew an Initiate of Kelemvor feat and add that spell in (like I did) or take 5 levels of Cleric. So Paladin 5/ Cleric 5/ Doomguide 10. For the Eternal Order, I'd skip the first level substitution (corpsestrike is a terrible option) but definitely could get the other level ones. Also, should look at Pelor's Blessing (aka Paladin of Light) that augments your Smite vs undead at the cost of Divine Health.

#2 Ranger/Scout that has the Undead Favored enemy can Skirmish vs undead with the Swift Hunter feat.

#3 Funny enough, Lathander doesn't have access to the Healing domain. So you'd have to homebrew that or pick another (I like Renewal, personally).

#4 Druids are crazy good regardless of which options you choose as is the White Necromancer. Solid choices there.

Some options to consider: Hunter of the Dead prestige class fits in this game nicely. As does PCs who take Servant of the Fallen and grab Amaunator as their deity: Planning, Sun Domains for some persistent spell shenanigans and the Sunmaster PrC.






Strange, I remember reading Lathander having Healing. Maybe the Renewal Domain could work instead of that?

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4432 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2024 :  22:18:33  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Strange, I remember reading Lathander having Healing. Maybe the Renewal Domain could work instead of that?



I think it's because there's a LOT of overlap between Lathander of Faerūn and Pelor of Oerth. So one just assumes they're a direct crossover. But Pelor sort of subsumed the concepts of both Lath and Ilmater. Also, a class like the Radiant Servant sounds like a banging PrC for Lathanderites, but requires Healing domain. So in my games, I Just give them access because it's more fun that way.
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